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Title: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: bobAlike on October 05, 2011, 02:53:03 PM Local £25 HE F/O
Early stages, 200/400 no antes yet Weakish table, with many players opting to limp pre. I'm most aggressive on table with 60k chip lead with an average 14k I'm BB UTG limps with 4k behind UTG +1 makes it 1200 with 6.5k behind 3 more players, including button and small blind call I've got 52HH so decide to see the multiway flop half expecting UTG to push, which he does. UTG +1 also shoves Remaining players all elect to limp each holding between 15 and 19k What do you do now? My reading of the table is that no one has a strong holding. Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: cambridgealex on October 05, 2011, 03:00:44 PM My reading of the table is that no one has a strong holding. This reminds me of the times when I've been called allin preflop by 56suited which has beaten my premium holding and been given the line "Sorry mate, I thought you were bluffing" This can't be a serious question? Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: George2Loose on October 05, 2011, 03:02:29 PM lol oh dear
Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: boldie on October 05, 2011, 03:04:55 PM Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: Boba Fett on October 05, 2011, 03:12:19 PM Local £25 HE F/O Early stages, 200/400 no antes yet Weakish table, with many players opting to limp pre. I'm most aggressive on table with 60k chip lead with an average 14k I'm BB UTG limps with 4k behind UTG +1 makes it 1200 with 6.5k behind 3 more players, including button and small blind call I've got 52HH so decide to see the multiway flop half expecting UTG to push, which he does. UTG +1 also shoves Remaining players all elect to limp each holding between 15 and 19k What do you do now? My reading of the table is that no one has a strong holding. Huh? Do you mean they called the shoves? Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: bobAlike on October 05, 2011, 03:15:14 PM Yes they all called the shove.
Why lol and why not a serious question? It was a really weak table. Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: boldie on October 05, 2011, 03:18:57 PM Yes they all called the shove. Why lol and why not a serious question? It was a really weak table. and you have 5h 2h? Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: bobAlike on October 05, 2011, 03:22:43 PM Yes they all called the shove. Why lol and why not a serious question? It was a really weak table. and you have 5h 2h? Yes, what I want to know is it ever worth calling or shoving when you are confident that nobody has a premium hand? Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: boldie on October 05, 2011, 03:25:52 PM Yes they all called the shove. Why lol and why not a serious question? It was a really weak table. and you have 5h 2h? Yes, what I want to know is it ever worth calling or shoving when you are confident that nobody has a premium hand? No, and it's also not worth calling pre. If you want to get it in with rubbish at least have the decency to shove with it. Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: cambridgealex on October 05, 2011, 03:26:17 PM Since no-one else seems to have a clue or given an answer yet, I'll be brave and give my answer.
I would do a fold at all points in this hand. Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: George2Loose on October 05, 2011, 03:30:40 PM I'd have 3 bet pre. Now I guess you have to shove
Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: bobAlike on October 05, 2011, 03:33:06 PM My thinking behind this is is that the 2 shovers are shoving out of boredom and the limpers are just playing bad (me included as I'm just passing time to get on the PLO cash action). If I shove I can make the limpers fold and then I think I'm flipping to win a 40k+ pot. If I lose I've still got 40k.
Is this really flawed thinking? Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: cambridgealex on October 05, 2011, 03:37:36 PM My thinking behind this is is that the 2 shovers are shoving out of boredom and the limpers are just playing bad (me included as I'm just passing time to get on the PLO cash action). If I shove I can make the limpers fold and then I think I'm flipping to win a 40k+ pot. If I lose I've still got 40k. Is this really flawed thinking? In what possible case could this be true? Even if they're shoving really wide (say top 35%) then you'll be about 25% vs their ranges to win. Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: millidonk on October 05, 2011, 03:37:52 PM Chance 1 - Fold pre, Chance 2 - Fold pre, if it gets back round and it is like 17K more to win 80k then i think ahhhh, why didn't i just fold pre... and probs flick it in.
Never a fan of hearing "if i lose, i've still got x amount" its normally said to me once someone calls my AA aipf with 2h 5h and gets there. Did you call and win? Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: bobAlike on October 05, 2011, 03:41:57 PM My thinking behind this is is that the 2 shovers are shoving out of boredom and the limpers are just playing bad (me included as I'm just passing time to get on the PLO cash action). If I shove I can make the limpers fold and then I think I'm flipping to win a 40k+ pot. If I lose I've still got 40k. Is this really flawed thinking? In what possible case could this be true? Even if they're shoving really wide (say top 35%) then you'll be about 25% vs their ranges to win. Ok flipping is the wrong term, what I mean is that I don't think I'm up against any pairs. Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: George2Loose on October 05, 2011, 03:46:28 PM My thinking behind this is is that the 2 shovers are shoving out of boredom and the limpers are just playing bad (me included as I'm just passing time to get on the PLO cash action). If I shove I can make the limpers fold and then I think I'm flipping to win a 40k+ pot. If I lose I've still got 40k. Is this really flawed thinking? In what possible case could this be true? Even if they're shoving really wide (say top 35%) then you'll be about 25% vs their ranges to win. Ok flipping is the wrong term, what I mean is that I don't think I'm up against any pairs. How can you possibly know this? Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: bobAlike on October 05, 2011, 03:50:12 PM Just my read of the players after watching them for 2 hours.
As it happens the best hand pre was A5. Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: George2Loose on October 05, 2011, 03:55:04 PM tbh if you can't beat them, join them. If you're saying that the comp is soft and making calls with 52hh and then calling shoves cos of "value" then you are part of why this comp is soft.
If you're taking this seriously and playing it properly this is a simple fold pre *2 Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: nirvana on October 05, 2011, 04:19:07 PM I disagree with all the responses here, after 3 years of studying live play at my local I am convinced you have played this perfectly. I mean, you have them covered and that's a lot of money out there.
First call induces the shove action and gives all the implied odds necessary for the next x calls. People aren't thinking this through properly Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: boldie on October 05, 2011, 04:37:22 PM I disagree with all the responses here, after 3 years of studying live play at my local I am convinced you have played this perfectly. I mean, you have them covered and that's a lot of money out there. First call induces the shove action and gives all the implied odds necessary for the next x calls. People aren't thinking this through properly lol, WP Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: George2Loose on October 05, 2011, 04:38:18 PM I disagree. I'd have proposed an 18 way deal where I get £26 FYP Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: nirvana on October 05, 2011, 04:45:10 PM I disagree. I'd have proposed an 18 way deal where I get £26 FYP ffs, will you let this deal business lie :-) Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: George2Loose on October 05, 2011, 04:53:18 PM I disagree. I'd have proposed an 18 way deal where I get £26 FYP ffs, will you let this deal business lie :-) No deal Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: nirvana on October 05, 2011, 04:57:20 PM I disagree. I'd have proposed an 18 way deal where I get £26 FYP ffs, will you let this deal business lie :-) No deal lol, v good Apols for derail, will go away and plot next deal Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: the sicilian on October 05, 2011, 04:59:24 PM I know what younare getting at re: value.... But it's easy Fold all the way..play this comp abc..get a hand and value bet the arse off it..don't get involved any where else along the way
Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: celtic on October 05, 2011, 05:02:53 PM Title: Re: Fold, limp or shove? Post by: the sicilian on October 05, 2011, 05:06:07 PM Or do it like celtic... Get it in ridiculous bad and suck out like a porn star |