Title: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: tintin on November 03, 2011, 09:06:08 AM 8 handed 1/2 game
hero opens cut off Ad Jd to £12 (playing £450), SB calls, BB calls (£700) Flop (£36) Kd 6d Qc SB Checks, BB Bets £35, hero Calls £35 , SB Folds Turn (£106) Th BB checks, hero checks River 6c BB Bets £140, hero?? I have only been sat at the table for 4 orbits but have played with villian on several occasions before although i don't think he has any idea that we have ever played before. The table is pretty deep and incredibly soft in most spots. Villian is a pretty arrogant guy who will definately have thought that he has a massive edge on this table. Basically 4 of the 8 seats were complete calling stations. I am unsure as to how villian views me and up to this point I have been pretty un-active Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: pleno1 on November 03, 2011, 09:40:31 AM call.
Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: david3103 on November 03, 2011, 10:36:28 AM Why check the turn?
We have nut best with a flush draw out there and surely we want villain to pay for that last card? Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: edgascoigne on November 03, 2011, 10:45:17 AM Bet turn.
As played call river and expect to see an airball. Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: pleno1 on November 03, 2011, 11:08:17 AM yeh wtf is with checking the turn, bet turn, shove river. most of his leading range if not all will continue on the turn.
Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: strak33 on November 03, 2011, 11:25:34 AM Seriously incase you missed it bet the turn
Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: GreekStein on November 03, 2011, 11:28:08 AM Yeh bet turn, call now.
Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: cambridgealex on November 03, 2011, 01:19:42 PM I think every street is misplayed to be perfectly frank. Don't like 6xing it pre, £7-£9 is plenty. Raise the flop. You have ridic equity against any hand and this equity will be halved on 3/4 turn cards so try and get as much money in now.
As said before bet turn. I'd bet tempted to shove river, he can't ever have QQ or KK I'd imagine so were never losing really. Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: david3103 on November 03, 2011, 02:28:59 PM I think every street is misplayed to be perfectly frank. Don't like 6xing it pre, £7-£9 is plenty. Raise the flop. You have ridic equity against any hand and this equity will be halved on 3/4 turn cards so try and get as much money in now. As said before bet turn. I'd bet tempted to shove river, he can't ever have QQ or KK I'd imagine so were never losing really. He can have 66, but that seems the only possible hand we're behind to. What does he call us with on the river if we shove though? 66, or KK/QQ if we're wrong about him 'never having them', and then maybe, every one's favourite, J9 suited and blue. We only beat one of those. Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: mulhuzz on November 03, 2011, 02:38:03 PM I think every street is misplayed to be perfectly frank. Don't like 6xing it pre, £7-£9 is plenty. Raise the flop. You have ridic equity against any hand and this equity will be halved on 3/4 turn cards so try and get as much money in now. As said before bet turn. I'd bet tempted to shove river, he can't ever have QQ or KK I'd imagine so were never losing really. hmmm... I was just about to ask why we're turning the nut no pair into a bluff by shoving river. Somehow didn't register that AKQJT makes a straight....must be a while since I've had one :D same question: why are we turning the nut straight into a bluff? can call with KK/QQ/66 (never has), some random 6 he wanted to bet flop to make you fold 8s or 9s (which is part of your range imo given betsizing) but slows on turn and rivers 'gin' but that's not a lot. Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: Honeybadger on November 03, 2011, 02:46:14 PM every one's favourite, J9 suited and blue. Jd9d is not in his range. DUCY?Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: cambridgealex on November 03, 2011, 02:46:28 PM I think every street is misplayed to be perfectly frank. Don't like 6xing it pre, £7-£9 is plenty. Raise the flop. You have ridic equity against any hand and this equity will be halved on 3/4 turn cards so try and get as much money in now. As said before bet turn. I'd bet tempted to shove river, he can't ever have QQ or KK I'd imagine so were never losing really. hmmm... I was just about to ask why we're turning the nut no pair into a bluff by shoving river. Somehow didn't register that AKQJT makes a straight....must be a while since I've had one :D same question: why are we turning the nut straight into a bluff? can call with KK/QQ/66 (never has), some random 6 he wanted to bet flop to make you fold 8s or 9s (which is part of your range imo given betsizing) but slows on turn and rivers 'gin' but that's not a lot. 6x the main target yeh and j9 of course. even if he doesnt call us very often its still a shove imo cos its just soooo unlikely we're beat. Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: pleno1 on November 03, 2011, 03:06:36 PM i think j9 is his most likely holding given the action.
Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: mulhuzz on November 03, 2011, 04:04:43 PM i think j9 is his most likely holding given the action. how often does he turn QT into a bluff/bet KT for value? Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: david3103 on November 03, 2011, 06:29:50 PM every one's favourite, J9 suited and blue. Jd9d is not in his range. DUCY?Lol, yes Loathe the ducy abbreviation though. So patronising Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: tintin on November 03, 2011, 08:13:13 PM I think every street is misplayed to be perfectly frank. Don't like 6xing it pre, £7-£9 is plenty. Raise the flop. You have ridic equity against any hand and this equity will be halved on 3/4 turn cards so try and get as much money in now. As said before bet turn. I'd bet tempted to shove river, he can't ever have QQ or KK I'd imagine so were never losing really. 6x is a fairly standard open in this game, pretty ridic gambley game where the standard open is prob more like 7 - 8x. My reasons for flatting the flop is because the small blind is a massive spaz and I want him to call behind which he basically will be doing such a high amount of the time with complete air. Heads up I am always raising this flop. The turn check is pretty meh but i think i am more likely to get villan to call my river bet light on the river and i do think there are alot of Kx in his range that i am never getting 2 streets of value from, but he will never fold top pair to me as played if he checks river and i bet 3/4 pot. Basically I agree that my line is pretty horrible here but at the time it made sense to me. With the dynamic of the game the way it was i really just think he is only ever overbetting here with nut like hands, mainly due to the fact that the average standard in this game is pretty bad and most people on the table are not even going to pay attention to the size of the bet and are just going to turbo backflip with any K, being that he is likely to be the only thinking player at the table and being that he is well aware of this does it not just feel like we are basically crushed by his river bet range? Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: Pinchop73 on November 03, 2011, 08:19:36 PM Mmm idk, could be TT's that failed to C/R the turn. Small part of his range though, call.
Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: tintin on November 03, 2011, 08:26:11 PM Bet turn. As played call river and expect to see an airball. This is air 0% of the time Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: SuuPRlim on November 04, 2011, 12:15:56 AM raising the flop is better than calling as it protects our equity like Alex says. BUT if you wanted to drag the SB in thats fair enough (although this isn't ACTUALLY the best hand to do it with, AKo is a miles better hand to want action fromthe SB)
as has been pointed out, checking the turn is a huge mistake here for so many reasons, more simply we have the greatest hand anyone has ever had and we really wanna be making this pot nice and big. like Pleno says most of his flop leading range 3 handed prolly isn't going to just c/f, he could well have AJ himself or J9, I think J9 is pretty likely. Also from a theory perspective (i know this is 99% not relevant here, but we are on a poker forum) its a nightmare to check because it also means you have to start checking a bunch of semi-bluffs and giving up a LOT of good 2barrel spots. As played, OTR, I have no idea, call or shove, flip a coin, we're not beat that often, he isn't calling too much worse that often. Title: Re: Live 1/2 river overbet spot Post by: WotRTheChances on November 04, 2011, 05:49:00 AM Agreed raise flop, bet turn. Dont have a problem with 6x pre if it's standard in that game. Probably not shoving river as in a live game people will wake up with Q6/K6 way more than they should (0-1% online), so I probs call, expecting to be good a massive bunch, but not expecting to get called often/ever by worse OTR.
|