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Title: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: chatban on November 21, 2011, 01:37:20 PM Hi Guys,
been a while since I posted and I don't post often. £160 live MTT 140 runners 55 remaining levels 45 mins long Hero: 72k Villain:50k Avg is about 26k Guy has been at table for 2 orbits, seems fairly decent young TAG My image is probably towards the quiet end. blinds 400/800 UTG +1 villain makes it 2k all pass. Hero calls with Ac 6c in the BB flop 6s Qc 4c whats the best line? I think with stack sizes there are a lot of considerations to be made as to how we continue vs villains range, he seems pretty snug in EP and I want to know what you would advocate and why. Thanks guys. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: absolutefish on November 21, 2011, 01:53:23 PM I would probably open shove.
Then stare him down and tell him these young internet players need to stop raising in early position. Even if he has top set you might win. You're basically a flip v any set and a favourite v AA. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: Skippy on November 21, 2011, 01:56:42 PM Fold pre. Now we are here, check raise.
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: chatban on November 21, 2011, 02:00:29 PM Fold pre. Now we are here, check raise. do we have any plans as to the rest of the hands once this is done? Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: absolutefish on November 21, 2011, 02:19:48 PM Open shove turn.
Scowl at opponent. [?] Profit Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: pleno1 on November 21, 2011, 02:23:05 PM fold/3bet pre.
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: boldie on November 21, 2011, 02:24:45 PM Fold pre. Now we are here, check raise. This for me. Don't like the call pre very much. check raise is my standard line here..end up getting all of the chippies in and missing my FD is also pretty standard. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: chatban on November 21, 2011, 02:27:45 PM Fold pre. Now we are here, check raise. This for me. Don't like the call pre very much. check raise is my standard line here..end up getting all of the chippies in and missing my FD is also pretty standard. ok fair, just want to know what ammount and how we proceed with rest of hand Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: rfgqqabc on November 21, 2011, 02:48:46 PM If he makes it 2.5-3k make it slightly on the large size- 10-14k. Not quite sure what you do if he just calls instead of putting it in. B/C seems kinda sucky on a 2s turn. Opinions on c/c flop and c/r turn? Allows us to control the pot size- and avoids this spot. Obviously if his range is just AA/KK/AK/AQ/KQs then calling pre is prob a mistake.
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: George2Loose on November 21, 2011, 03:00:27 PM Anyone just check call here?
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: Skippy on November 21, 2011, 03:07:53 PM Fold pre. Now we are here, check raise. do we have any plans as to the rest of the hands once this is done? Pfft. Who needs them? Well, if he 3bets us all in, I'm fine with getting it in. If he flats, I think you have to jam the turn. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: chatban on November 21, 2011, 03:08:28 PM Anyone just check call here? I think thats probably better than C/R anyway. bacause we are in a horrible spot if he raises or calls and if he folds his air, by check calling we let him do it again if we improve. I personally think bet/get it in> C/C> C/R> anything else Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: Skippy on November 21, 2011, 03:20:35 PM Fold pre. Now we are here, check raise. do we have any plans as to the rest of the hands once this is done? Pfft. Who needs them? Well, if he 3bets us all in, I'm fine with getting it in. If he flats, I think you have to jam the turn. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: Royal Flush on November 21, 2011, 03:28:24 PM I'm never folding pre here....
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: absolutefish on November 21, 2011, 03:29:12 PM Shove pre.
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: George2Loose on November 21, 2011, 03:29:32 PM Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: George2Loose on November 21, 2011, 03:29:49 PM Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: mulhuzz on November 21, 2011, 03:34:31 PM fold pre especially without antes, but since we decided to play a super marginal hand in a really marginal spot vs someone who can hurt our huge chip advantage a lottt, we now have to get to showdown. c/c is best and re-evaluate the turn. It's absolutely fine to give up on the turn as well on like the Kd or something.
some things: you can't really make a liveread that he's a fairly decent TAG and certainly can't assume that you have an image at all, much less a quiet one after 2 orbits. don't really think that everyone advocating check/raise or bet/get it in has considered that you'd end up having the average chip stack or having 5x average if you win but with still a lot of players to go. You can't win a live MTT in this stage but you can certainly lose it. You might even have the best hand now, and if you do, it's really hard for him to catch up (ok, if he has specifically AK, you have the best hand) but if he has the best hand, it's really easy for you to catch up. I like check/call, check/call, shove. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: pleno1 on November 21, 2011, 03:38:58 PM i actually call alot more than the "norm" i think i call a2-a5s and a9s//=, so probably if im bored i'll call with this too asd its not too much difference, but guy has raised from utg+1 Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: chatban on November 21, 2011, 03:39:57 PM fold pre especially without antes, but since we decided to play a super marginal hand in a really marginal spot vs someone who can hurt our huge chip advantage a lottt, we now have to get to showdown. c/c is best and re-evaluate the turn. It's absolutely fine to give up on the turn as well on like the Kd or something. some things: you can't really make a liveread that he's a fairly decent TAG and certainly can't assume that you have an image at all, much less a quiet one after 2 orbits. don't really think that everyone advocating check/raise or bet/get it in has considered that you'd end up having the average chip stack or having 5x average if you win but with still a lot of players to go. You can't win a live MTT in this stage but you can certainly lose it. You might even have the best hand now, and if you do, it's really hard for him to catch up (ok, if he has specifically AK, you have the best hand) but if he has the best hand, it's really easy for you to catch up. I like check/call, check/call, shove. There are antes, whoops Reads were obviously very very loose and its just his sizing more than anything that made me think hes not terrible. I like c/c c/c shove fwiw provided the board stays unpaired. I defo ge tthe advice about the avg stack sizing too. Didn't think this through tbf. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: absolutefish on November 21, 2011, 03:49:23 PM Whoa, whoa, what's wrong with shoving? It folds out a load of hands. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: chatban on November 21, 2011, 04:02:45 PM hes UTG+1....
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: mulhuzz on November 21, 2011, 04:18:54 PM if there are antes then calling pre is fine.
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: cambridgealex on November 22, 2011, 01:47:23 AM Defo peeling pre or maybe 3betting dependant on a few things. Foxes clientele is lolbad, I'm fistpumping to find a suited ace 60bbs deep and seeing a flop for 1200 more.
3betting pre almost certainly better, but don't mind the peel at all. Lol@ folding. C/raise, bet/commit yourself on the turn would be my line of choice as played. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: skolsuper on November 22, 2011, 02:08:25 AM Fold pre and it's only close if the guy is lol bad and even then only if he's the loose kind of bad. As played, a checkraise is in order, if check and raise is allowed in this establishment.
Oh and lol at the new poster, defs not a troll, his contribution is a massive improvement on mantis and you let him post. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: cambridgealex on November 22, 2011, 02:21:16 AM Fold pre and it's only close if the guy is lol bad and even then only if he's the loose kind of bad. As played, a checkraise is in order, if check and raise is allowed in this establishment. Oh and lol at the new poster, defs not a troll, his contribution is a massive improvement on mantis and you let him post. 1010 posts eh keysie?! That's an awful lot. Mantis>keys imo ;) Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: EvilPie on November 22, 2011, 02:33:46 AM Norrrr He's amazing!! Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: WotRTheChances on November 22, 2011, 03:32:05 AM Defo peeling pre or maybe 3betting dependant on a few things. Foxes clientele is lolbad, I'm fistpumping to find a suited ace 60bbs deep and seeing a flop for 1200 more. 3betting pre almost certainly better, but don't mind the peel at all. Lol@ folding. Fold pre and it's only close if the guy is lol bad and even then only if he's the loose kind of bad. lololita fwiw i fold in this spot vs this opp, or an unknown, but call vs most -EV opps. Anyone lead on this board in this spot? can induce some fun spaz-outs. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: cambridgealex on November 22, 2011, 04:12:15 AM Fold pre and it's only close if the guy is lol bad and even then only if he's the loose kind of bad. As played, a checkraise is in order, if check and raise is allowed in this establishment. Oh and lol at the new poster, defs not a troll, his contribution is a massive improvement on mantis and you let him post. 60bbs deep? Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: SuuPRlim on November 22, 2011, 04:28:42 AM I wanna be raising this flop
PROTECT MY EQUITY INNIT. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: cambridgealex on November 22, 2011, 04:57:54 AM I wanna be raising this flop PROTECT MY EQUITY INNIT. Yup we like doing this don't we dave Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: absolutefish on November 22, 2011, 09:45:38 AM Donk, shove. Easy.
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: skolsuper on November 22, 2011, 11:04:23 AM Fold pre and it's only close if the guy is lol bad and even then only if he's the loose kind of bad. As played, a checkraise is in order, if check and raise is allowed in this establishment. Oh and lol at the new poster, defs not a troll, his contribution is a massive improvement on mantis and you let him post. 60bbs deep? You're just going to be check-folding a lot, even though our hand plays quite well the guys range just isn't wide enough to peel here*. I think it's telling that you want to 3b rather than call because it should be obvious that a 3bet bluff is not a good idea in this spot in this field. As for the flop, check call is just such a waste it's not an option and the problem with any kind of donk bet is that it forces our opponent to play pretty much correctly, i.e. flat and see a safe turn with his weak holdings that actually have good equity against us, fold his zero equity hands and raise-get it in with the hands that are actually ahead. The only type of hand where he might make a 'mistake' (in the sklansky sense of the word, i.e. against our actual hand) are other flush draws, but they aren't that numerous with us having the Ac and besides it should be obvious how much better a c/r plays against other flush draws than a donk lead. So, just by process of elimination I think check raise is the best option, but even then it just seems so yummy I don't know why we're looking at other options anyway. *average guy, in a £160mtt Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: SuuPRlim on November 22, 2011, 07:05:14 PM I wanna be raising this flop PROTECT MY EQUITY INNIT. Yup we like doing this don't we dave Cos it's clever - when me and you get equity Alex, WE PROTECT IT. That way word spreads in the equity world that you'll be safe with us and more equity swarms to us. Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: George2Loose on November 22, 2011, 07:12:35 PM How do you play it in a 5k comp then James?
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: cambridgealex on November 22, 2011, 08:50:58 PM I wanna be raising this flop PROTECT MY EQUITY INNIT. Yup we like doing this don't we dave Cos it's clever - when me and you get equity Alex, WE PROTECT IT. That way word spreads in the equity world that you'll be safe with us and more equity swarms to us. Ahrt Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: muckthenuts on November 22, 2011, 11:23:54 PM Fold pre, c/r sized to either get it on otf or to be jamming turn if he flats.
Title: Re: Best line in £160 mtt at foxclub Post by: mulhuzz on November 23, 2011, 01:46:55 AM Fold pre and it's only close if the guy is lol bad and even then only if he's the loose kind of bad. As played, a checkraise is in order, if check and raise is allowed in this establishment. Oh and lol at the new poster, defs not a troll, his contribution is a massive improvement on mantis and you let him post. 60bbs deep? You're just going to be check-folding a lot, even though our hand plays quite well the guys range just isn't wide enough to peel here*. I think it's telling that you want to 3b rather than call because it should be obvious that a 3bet bluff is not a good idea in this spot in this field. As for the flop, check call is just such a waste it's not an option and the problem with any kind of donk bet is that it forces our opponent to play pretty much correctly, i.e. flat and see a safe turn with his weak holdings that actually have good equity against us, fold his zero equity hands and raise-get it in with the hands that are actually ahead. The only type of hand where he might make a 'mistake' (in the sklansky sense of the word, i.e. against our actual hand) are other flush draws, but they aren't that numerous with us having the Ac and besides it should be obvious how much better a c/r plays against other flush draws than a donk lead. So, just by process of elimination I think check raise is the best option, but even then it just seems so yummy I don't know why we're looking at other options anyway. *average guy, in a £160mtt are you also check raising air on this board as well? a) in a £160, b) in a £1000, c) in a £5000? |