Title: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Eso Kral on November 28, 2011, 11:52:45 AM Same £75 f/o at Luton
4 Handed Villain 400k SB Us 550k BB Blinds 12000/24000/2000 Folds to the sb who makes it up, our image is definately the player who since the final started has held the chip lead up until 4 handed play and been the most aggresive on the final table. Villain is tightish and not been involved in many pots just been laddering away. We check our option with 6d Tc and see a flop of Kc Kh 3d which goes check check Turn 6s (56k) villain bets 32k and we flat River 2d villain checks and we bet 38k Too thin or are we happy to get to showdown and just check back the river? What do you think? Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: AlexMartin on November 28, 2011, 12:02:42 PM def not too thin.
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: pleno1 on November 28, 2011, 12:33:46 PM seems fine to me. thoughts on jamming pre? pick up nice amount and he doesnt snap us off much imo.
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: mulhuzz on November 28, 2011, 02:31:51 PM seems fine to me. thoughts on jamming pre? pick up nice amount and he doesnt snap us off much imo. nonononono. jamming pre is a mistake. can bet the flop, can call turn and can defo bet-fold river. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: cambridgealex on November 28, 2011, 02:33:50 PM Nice brag ;)
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: pleno1 on November 28, 2011, 02:39:01 PM with reflection and looking at stack sizes, i def jam pre.
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 03:22:29 PM What you doing if he jams?
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: lolwutwasthat on November 28, 2011, 03:25:40 PM vs bad players we shud find ways to minimize our varuance as possible, we shud jus take as many small pots down as we can instead of getting into all in confrontations...
Jamming pre is ok but if we're crushing the table by taking down pots pre with min raises/limp stabbing then we shud screw the +ev shoves...p.s COMMON SENSE>+EV and with our image he is certainly capable of limp calling a shove/ limp c/r AI. I think not betting this flop vs a nitty/bad player is a mistake, hes just not going to mess about with us here, we can just play sooo exploitably its unreal. I mean how often are you going to see a random c/r bluff on boards like this lol. But as played superstandard value bet, but i assume you lost then hand cus u posted it haha WP nevertheless Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Eso Kral on November 28, 2011, 03:31:05 PM What you doing if he jams? Pre or after the thin value?Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: pleno1 on November 28, 2011, 03:40:56 PM What you doing if he jams? Pre or after the thin value?he means after the thin value. i def fold btw. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Eso Kral on November 28, 2011, 03:42:39 PM What you doing if he jams? Pre or after the thin value?he means after the thin value. i def fold btw. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Eso Kral on November 28, 2011, 03:45:52 PM vs bad players we shud find ways to minimize our varuance as possible, we shud jus take as many small pots down as we can instead of getting into all in confrontations... No never lost the hand, just a convo I had with someone..Jamming pre is ok but if we're crushing the table by taking down pots pre with min raises/limp stabbing then we shud screw the +ev shoves...p.s COMMON SENSE>+EV and with our image he is certainly capable of limp calling a shove/ limp c/r AI. I think not betting this flop vs a nitty/bad player is a mistake, hes just not going to mess about with us here, we can just play sooo exploitably its unreal. I mean how often are you going to see a random c/r bluff on boards like this lol. But as played superstandard value bet, but i assume you lost then hand cus u posted it haha WP nevertheless Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 04:05:33 PM What you doing if he jams? Pre or after the thin value?he means after the thin value. i def fold btw. Just call then. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: pleno1 on November 28, 2011, 04:11:15 PM call what matty?
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 04:14:35 PM Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: muckthenuts on November 28, 2011, 04:27:14 PM Jamming pre is fine if your image isn't like completely terrible, people have insane tight calling ranges live. Lolwutwasthat makes good points for checking though. River bet is standard.
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: cambridgealex on November 28, 2011, 04:36:24 PM Checking behind because we'll fold if he raises is just a TERRIBLE reason for not betting. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 04:52:58 PM Checking behind because we'll fold if he raises is just a TERRIBLE reason for not betting. I've got lot's of terrible reasons for doing things. They're what have got me where I am today. I can't think of enough worse hands he'll call with to offset the better hands he calls with + the better hands he jams with + the occasional worse hand he shoves with. Unless there's some real history of thin value bets and sick hero calls I much prefer the check. With history I prefer betting to call a shove than betting to fold but not against the described oppo. Villain is described as 'tightish' and 'laddering away'. The reason I asked Rich what he'd do is to gauge the opponent. He obviously thinks he's beat if oppo shoves which gives a bit more info on the 'tightness'. Rich can't see any bluffs in his range so I assume there aren't too many hero calls in there either. I can't see enough sick hero calls in this guy's locker to lump anything else in to this pot. There's possibly a couple of 6x suited hands but that's it. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: pleno1 on November 28, 2011, 04:56:59 PM the guy c/shoves almost never and if he does its always with the best hand. we should have the best hand mostttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt of the time therefore think betting is best.
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Eso Kral on November 28, 2011, 04:58:03 PM Checking behind because we'll fold if he raises is just a TERRIBLE reason for not betting. I've got lot's of terrible reasons for doing things. They're what have got me where I am today. I can't think of enough worse hands he'll call with to offset the better hands he calls with + the better hands he jams with + the occasional worse hand he shoves with. Unless there's some real history of thin value bets and sick hero calls I much prefer the check. With history I prefer betting to call a shove than betting to fold but not against the described oppo. Villain is described as 'tightish' and 'laddering away'. The reason I asked Rich what he'd do is to gauge the opponent. He obviously thinks he's beat if oppo shoves which gives a bit more info on the 'tightness'. Rich can't see any bluffs in his range so I assume there aren't too many hero calls in there either. I can't see enough sick hero calls in this guy's locker to lump anything else in to this pot. There's possibly a couple of 6x suited hands but that's it. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Eso Kral on November 28, 2011, 04:59:13 PM the guy c/shoves almost never and if he does its always with the best hand. we should have the best hand mostttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt of the time therefore think betting is best. agreed so we are happy to bet for value and then fold if shoved on.Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 04:59:58 PM the guy c/shoves almost never and if he does its always with the best hand. we should have the best hand mostttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt of the time therefore think betting is best. I'd agree with this if I could think of enough worse hands he calls with. What range of worse hands have you got him on that he calls with? Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: cambridgealex on November 28, 2011, 05:01:25 PM A2 A3, 44, 55, worse 6x, ace high.
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 05:03:26 PM Checking behind because we'll fold if he raises is just a TERRIBLE reason for not betting. I've got lot's of terrible reasons for doing things. They're what have got me where I am today. I can't think of enough worse hands he'll call with to offset the better hands he calls with + the better hands he jams with + the occasional worse hand he shoves with. Unless there's some real history of thin value bets and sick hero calls I much prefer the check. With history I prefer betting to call a shove than betting to fold but not against the described oppo. Villain is described as 'tightish' and 'laddering away'. The reason I asked Rich what he'd do is to gauge the opponent. He obviously thinks he's beat if oppo shoves which gives a bit more info on the 'tightness'. Rich can't see any bluffs in his range so I assume there aren't too many hero calls in there either. I can't see enough sick hero calls in this guy's locker to lump anything else in to this pot. There's possibly a couple of 6x suited hands but that's it. Well that's very useful info and obviously means we have no decisions. Now all we need to know is if he call with worse and also potentially fold better? Does he have a habit of making sick hero calls? Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 05:05:08 PM A2 A3, 44, 55, worse 6x, ace high. Doesn't a hero caller usually raise most of these pre? Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Eso Kral on November 28, 2011, 05:05:50 PM Checking behind because we'll fold if he raises is just a TERRIBLE reason for not betting. I've got lot's of terrible reasons for doing things. They're what have got me where I am today. I can't think of enough worse hands he'll call with to offset the better hands he calls with + the better hands he jams with + the occasional worse hand he shoves with. Unless there's some real history of thin value bets and sick hero calls I much prefer the check. With history I prefer betting to call a shove than betting to fold but not against the described oppo. Villain is described as 'tightish' and 'laddering away'. The reason I asked Rich what he'd do is to gauge the opponent. He obviously thinks he's beat if oppo shoves which gives a bit more info on the 'tightness'. Rich can't see any bluffs in his range so I assume there aren't too many hero calls in there either. I can't see enough sick hero calls in this guy's locker to lump anything else in to this pot. There's possibly a couple of 6x suited hands but that's it. Well that's very useful info and obviously means we have no decisions. Now all we need to know is if he call with worse and also potentially fold better? Does he have a habit of making sick hero calls? Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: muckthenuts on November 28, 2011, 05:10:05 PM Fwiw if you think this is a thin value bet then you don't value bet enough.
Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: cambridgealex on November 28, 2011, 05:12:04 PM Fwiw if you think this is a thin value bet then you don't value bet enough. this Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 05:13:36 PM 100% this guy never check shoves worse and is the 4th tightest out of the last 4!! Well that's very useful info and obviously means we have no decisions. Now all we need to know is if he call with worse and also potentially fold better? Does he have a habit of making sick hero calls? From 10 handed he was the least active player on the table so imo just flat abc poker playing his cards!! Well you know him better than any of us as you played with him so do the following: a) Give us a list of some hands that you think he flats pre and then hero calls here that are worse than your hand. b) Give us a list of some hands he flats pre and then calls or shoves with that are better than your hand. If you're finding it easier to fill list 'a' than list 'b' then it's well worth a value bet. If you can't think of Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: EvilPie on November 28, 2011, 05:15:11 PM Fwiw if you think this is a thin value bet then you don't value bet enough. Fwiw I don't think this is thin at all against the correct opponent. I just like to know before I stick the chips in the middle. Title: Re: Too Thin for value or check with showdown? Post by: Keylek on November 30, 2011, 06:55:34 AM I havent read any replies because I don't like to before replying so....
OP I think its perfect, have to fold to a c/r if it comes though obv (because you're beating all his sixes that should (well can we use should here? fking lol) limp the sb apart from A6 and everything else. I don't think he can c/r bluff the river so this is the right bet imo. Real important that the ten plays, if it doesnt i think its a check back?? |