blonde poker forum

Live 50/1. Table has just opened up, probably played about 20 hands. I've 3bet pre once and taken it down and folded the rest. Villain has raised one pot and bet/bet/check with AQ on Axxxx and limped a few times. Playing £230~ effective stacks.

Couple of fish limp, he makes it £6, active guy to my right calls, I call the button with 5c 4c, blinds fold and limpers call.

Flop (£31.50) Qc Th 4s

Checked round.

Turn (£31.50) Qc Th 4s 4h

Checked to me, I bet £20. Folded to villain who quickly announces £80. I call.

River (£191.50) Qc Th 4s 4h 5d

Villain bets £100 (which leaves £50~ behind). I call.

Anyone play this differently?

Sean,

you forgot about his extra £50 quid.

take it next time.

:)

I'd fold pre, a lot of people probably wouldn't though

(not trying to nit up my image ahead of a DTD cash game adventure over monte carlo, promise)

I wouldn't mind a flop bet when it checks to you, decent spot to semibluff with bottom pair and the backdoor flush draw if you think the fish will c/c c/f to a second barrel with Tx hands.

Such a gross spot when he c/raises turn. He's repping QQ/TT only cos I think he deffo bets KK and AA on the flop 4 handed. I can't really think of any combos that he'd bluff with though that fit with his preflop range. I think he leads turn with hands like  Ahrt Jh and might have just cbet the flop with them. Hard to imagine he'd just randomly spaz with AK, 99 or something like that pre. Given that he's done a bit of limping I think we can reasonably assign him a pretty strong preflop range too. The AQ hand you mention makes me doubt that he'd ever do this with Qx because he's just bet the flop. Hard to imagine that he'd show up with QT here either given pre.

I think in theory fold turn, but nobody does. As played fold river, I don't think he ever bluffs this sizing. I'd like to think that I'd find the river fold. Boating doesn't change our hand strength at all vs his range but folding a boat seems a lot harder than folding trips :D

Please don't jam river vs this guy ever. He's literally at either the north or south pole.

i didnt see he'd raised pre having shown a tendancy to limp, thereofre can't have other 4x combos. fold river then in an ideal world.

abso hating life on the turn

id really struggle to find the fold btn here but agree it'd be a great spot to find it

Yeah i'd fold too. I've found suited connectors to be an probable losing habit in the long run and i think it's plugged a leak when i stopped peeling with them to raises.

Does villain really raise that much on the turn with QQ or 1010?

I'd be more inclined to fold if he made it like 55 which I'd expect more often when he was raising with boats.

Is that flawed thinking?

I agree with Papadopoulisalington, generally when someone's line is to trap to get more money in with top set in multi way pot, why when they get a nut turn are they making their sizing so big now to possibly kill action.

I'm probs playing it the same n calling now.

Yeh I call/call

I'm not sure that's true.
When some recreational  players get to the river and know they have to bet to win, they are very reluctant to do a full stack, but don't want to give up without having another stab.
It's not impossible that he has a combo draw (AKhh, KJhh, AJhh etc...).

Never folding the river.
If I'm ever folding, would be the turn, but very unlikely based on just 20 hands of information.

argh my opinions are far too easily swayed. agree with all of that Neil.

Especially the point about river bluff sizing. So many times I've been faced with a river bet that looks sooo valuey like they bet 30 on the turn then 35 on the river, but the line makes no sense so I call and they are bluffing. it always surprises me, why wouldn't they at least take a manly stab at the pot come on man!

This was my thinking (so probs flawed, yes). My first thought was that he might have been trying to set the tarp with an overpair, but obv that's a thin range. Combos are definitely in there, but like Dan said, I'd expect him to be leading out with these hands.


Also, we've all seen this a number of times. What I tend to see turned over in these situations are not only weird bluffs, but also hands that fall within a merged range, probably by accident. I wouldn't be too surprised to see AQ/KQ here even though he's not supposed to have these hands.

Folding turn felt very realistic at the time, but the more I look at it, the less sure I become that folding is a viable option. At first glance, it looks like he can only have QQ/TT like Dan says but it's just such a weird bet size. Obv once I call turn, I can't fold river.

Would like to get more thoughts and opinions on folding pre and betting flop, though.

pretty much always peeling pre and definitely betting the flop.

Feel like suited connectors are where I might be burning a lot of money, especially when I flop pairs I know I have a tendency to butcher it. if we're betting the flop, we're barrelling any turn card heads up and giving up multi way unless we improve? Or do you still barrel into two players?

pretty much always giving up with more than one caller. if only one, then the cards to barrel/ when to shut down depend massively on who it is and what you think they have.

as a general rule, I wouldn't be barrelling cards like Q or T or 2, 3 for obvious reasons. Vs guys that miight peel one off with 66 you could bet again on almost any card if you think they might fold. and J or K or 9 or 8 aren't great cards to bet cos they hit the callers range fairly hard (giving him 2pair, straights, pair+gutter, pair + openender).

I'd probably be barrelling any club though even if it was one of those cards because our equity is so much better now we won't have to get a fold nearly as often.

So i'd be betting any club, 4, 5, A, 6, 7 about half the deck i guess. give or take a bit depending on who it is.

I discussed this at length with a fr msnl online player i had a chat with a while back and he basically said it will be a leak in the long run in a £1-2 game. You flop gin so rarely and there's really no guarantee of getting stacks in when you do. I only really peel in lp with cheap multiway pots (£6 would be too much here imo) and open fold them in ep-mp, and i think my winrate is better for it about a year later.

I'd probably start letting these go and seeing how your results change.

multiway its hard to make them profitable, but isoing, 3betting IP, getting it HU or 3way, u dont need to flop gin to win the hand

yeah this is all going to happen in lp and thats fine ofc.

For this to be true you have to be sure that his turn and river ranges are exactly the same. The AQ hand that you mentioned where he bet/bet/checks suggests that he's doesn't really have the tendency to overplay top pair hands so he's not showing up with KQ/AQ here imo, but if he did I think theres a good chance that he checks this river. He also sometimes gives up on his bluffs, so the river is an entirely separate decision which is why I said that in a vacuum given reads the turn is a fold and the river even more so.

folding pre is better than calling and calling pre is ok.