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Announced by PokerStars today:


Thank you all for your patience in waiting for this announcement of VIP changes effective January 1, 2012.  Details of planned changes in ring game rake are also included below as they may impact players’ playing plans in 2012.  


Change from ‘Dealt’ to ‘Weighted Contributed’

VPP earnings at ring games will be calculated using the ‘weighted contributed’ method, changing from the ‘dealt’ method.  The weighted contributed method awards VPPs to each player based on how much they contribute to the pot.  You can read more about the weighted contributed calculation on the PokerStars website (http://www.pokerstars.com/sites/vpp-changes/).

Ring game players will be affected differently by this change depending on their play style.  Some players will earn VPPs faster while others will earn them more slowly. The total number of VPPs given out as a result of each hand is the same using the ‘weighted contributed’ and ‘dealt’ calculations.  

While each player is different, overall the weighted contributed method will reward players with lower VIP statuses more and players with higher VIP statuses less. In summary this change will make the distribution of VIP Club benefits more balanced, less top heavy toward Supernova+ VIPs.  Players earning a higher VIP status will still earn points faster and gain more and better options for redeeming FPPs.

Weighted Contributed vs. Winner Take All

Winner take all (WTA) is another method of awarding VPPs that was suggested by some players. We considered WTA, but decided that weighted contributed is a superior method of allocating VPPs after a thorough evaluation of both options.

The WTA method results in significantly more volatility in player VPP earnings from session to session and day to day.  This can make it more difficult for players to plan their play based on expected VPP earnings.  Players may also psychologically feel that it is unfair that when taking a bad beat they lose not only the pot but also all VPP earnings for the hand.  On a larger scale, players experiencing a session with particularly negative results may not appreciate earning far fewer VPPs than anticipated in addition to losing funds at the tables.  

We did review the differences in how the weighted contributed and winner take all methods would award VPPs to players in the long run.  While individual players would earn VPPs at different rates due to differing play styles, as a group the members of each VIP level would see no material difference in the number of VPPs earned between the weighted contributed and winner take all methods.


Changes to Ring Game Rake

Rake Calculation Method
Ring game rake will now be calculated as a true percentage using round half to even (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rounding#Round_half_to_even)  rounding.   This is a change from the past incremental rake calculations.  

The change to true percentage rake will make rake calculation more transparent and intuitive for players.  Instead of three rake components (%, increment, and cap) we will have two components (% and cap).

If rake caps and percentages were to remain the same, changing to true percentage rake would result in an increase in rake taken due to the change in rounding.  However, we are altering rake percentages downward for all stakes and betting types, reduced from 5% to 4.50% or less.  The change to true percentage rake has the most impact on microstakes games.  Similarly, the reduction in rake percentages and/or caps is greatest at microstakes games.

As an example, the rake at $0.25/$0.50 NLHE with 6 players dealt in used to be $0.05 for each $1.00 in the pot up to a maximum of $3.00.  The new rake for such hands will be 4.5% up to $3.00.  The below table shows the old rake and new rake for these types of hands with four different pot sizes:

(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4337/rakeexamples.jpg)

Rake caps have also been changed, some lowered and some increased, to make them more consistent across different stakes, game types, and currencies.

Rake percentages and caps are being set such that we expect a small overall decrease in site rake assuming that play remains the same. You can see the new rake tables at the bottom of this post.

Fixed Limit Rake with Two Players Dealt In

The rake cap for fixed limit ring game hands dealt to exactly two players has in the past been different depending on whether or not the hand is dealt at a designated heads-up table.  Effective January 1st, rake for heads-up play will be consistent across tables at the same stakes with differing numbers of seats.

Euro Currency Rake

Caps at Euro currency tables are also being adjusted to more closely match rake on USD currency tables given the current exchange rate between the USD and EUR currencies.  Rake percentages at EUR tables will match the percentages at similar USD tables.


VPP Awarding at Euro Currency Tables

VPP Multipliers for Euro Currency tournaments and ring games are being modified based on the current exchange rate between the USD and EUR currencies as follows:

Tournaments and ring games with 7 and fewer seats:  7x
Ring games with 8 or more seats:  8x
PL/NL €0.01/€0.02:  12x
PL/NL €0.02/€0.05:  10x
PL/NL €0.05/€0.10:  8.5x

The number of FPPs per Euro of reward in a standard FPP satellite to a EUR currency tournament will be reduced from 85 to 81, making FPPs used in such tournaments more valuable.


Implementation

All of the above changes are planned for implementation in the first days of 2012, Eastern (US) Time


PokerStars.be, PokerStars.dk, and PokerStars.ee

PokerStars.be, PokerStars.dk, and PokerStars.ee players who are playing ring games and tournaments shared with PokerStars.com players will be subject to the same rake and tournament fees including the weighted contributed method of awarding ring game VPPs.   VPP Multipliers and other VIP Club Rewards will be announced separately for each of these licenses.  


Additional Changes
We recognize that the annual basis of Supernova+ VIP Status, VIP Stellar Rewards, and Milestone Cash Credits results in many players planning their PokerStars play at the start of each year based on the game conditions and VIP Program rewards at that time.  We cannot guarantee that there will not be meaningful VIP Program changes during the year, but every attempt will be made to avoid such midyear changes that could have a significant negative impact on players’ plans.

We do not plan any significant changes to ring games offerings at this time other than the planned addition of a fast moving ring games product sometime in the first quarter of 2012.  

Additional 6-player and 9-player hyper turbo Sit & Go Tournaments are still under consideration for deployment in January 2012.  Players will be notified in these forums in advance of such additions. Sit & Go offerings will continue to be evaluated periodically throughout the year resulting in changes being made as needed.


Rake Tables

(http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/3986/usdu.jpg)

(http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/4934/euroyi.jpg)

(http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/9426/fixedlimit.jpg)




Source: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/pokerstars-com-vip-program-ring-game-rake-changes-effective-january-1-2012-a-1145272/

Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Is this better or worse for you James?

So if you are a nit, you miss out on points, but if you call loads you get more points?????

It doesn't affect me at all as I don't play cash games. Was hoping for some improvements to VIP program and SNGs in general but I guess that's too much to ask. At least they didn't make things worse. Looks like most regs are very unhappy with these changes.

Essentially...

The mass multi-tablers will be - you can't just be a ridic nit and make supernova elite at 1/2 and 2/4 full ring any more.

This is a big win for the good regs - they now get more rakeback and a bigger winrate since the fish now have some extra rakeback $$ to lose.

i don't think this is true, you need to be playing nearly 40% of hands to earn more rakeback and i could count the number of regs who could do that on lil d's hand.

Also theres a rake increase when it goes 5 handed on 6max, i mean seriously there pretty much punishing the table starters. To me it seems scary that stars are going through the short-term money grabbing route, i hope its due to new (mis) management as opposed to a scenario like FTP with the multi-entry mtt's which was a clear money spinner before they knew s**t was guna hit the fan. There planning a mass sitout on stars, think i'll wait until the dust settles before i decide although as im not a big volume players rakeback has only ever been an afterthought for my choice of site.

Yeah I was well aware when I wrote my post that there were probably more facets to it than that, I assumed it'd be a sliding scale rather than needing to be playing 40% of hands to increase your VPP/hr rate.

As for the rake increase at 5 handed that sucks because while you're paying less rake 4 handed you are probably 5 handed a lot more often than you are 4 handed.

tbh I think it was only a matter of time before stars made moves to exploit its market position. Software-wise it has an absolute lock on the market right now and thats what the huge volume grinders need to ply their trade. For all its faults, Full Tilt made a s**tload of money and stars are making moves to replicate it. Hyper turbo SNGs coming in across the board and Rush (their incarnation of it) coming early 2012 too.

They'll still probably still come out of it smelling of roses though, they always do and hats off to them for that imo.



As if that brag was ever gunna get through! mbn :D

The 40% thing is obv not true. In a game where you are playing 30% of hands vs 5 nits playing 20% of hands or less, you will get more vpps allocated by the new system than the old.

Have to say that I have assumed stars used weighted contribution and was quite surprised to find out they didn't, since it is so obviously better for everyone in the long term. Fuck the nits.

haha

yeh they've pretty much monopolised (sp?) the market since FTP went. When you consider how incompetent the other networks/sites are it is always likely going to be bad news for the punters :(.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/mass-sitout-protest-stars-2012-rake-changes-1145349/index2.html

post 116 includes this:


Pokerstars LAGs:

"I hear some players saying that this will really hurt NITs but tags and especially LAGs will loss just a little and with games potentially getting softer it could break-even.

WRONG!!! Check SNE and Stars official changes page and you will see that even players with VPIP around 20 at FR and SH players with around 30VPIP are still reporting at least 10% losses"

I haven't checked the official pages but i see no reason why they would make it up.

I'm sure they didn't just make it up, doesn't mean they aren't wrong.

In that thread I imagine everybody sounding like Sheldon out of the big bang theory.

From pokerstars Steve on 2p2

Thank you all for taking the time to express your opinion about the recently announced changes to ring game rake on PokerStars.com for 2012.

As a direct result of player input, we are cancelling the planned rake changes that were to be implemented in early January 2012. We will still use the incremental method to calculate rake instead of true percentage rake. Rake caps and percentages will remain exactly as they are today.

I would like to add a few comments:

The current rake at PokerStars is the lowest by far among all major poker sites.

We are confident that the planned rake changes would have resulted in a further overall decrease in ring game rake site wide, and a decrease for a majority of players.

There has been much inaccurate information spread about the impact of the changes. As an example, the changes would not have resulted in a 50% increase in rake for 5-handed play. While there would have been an increase in average rake for 5-handed play at NL tables with stakes of $0.25/$0.50 and higher, it would be far less than 50% (for stakes up to $0.10/$0.25 there was either no change or reduction in caps for 5-handed play). Most hands do not reach the cap and thus would not be affected. The rake for many hands dealt to 5 players would actually be lower at many stakes due to the lower rake percentage (4.5% reduced from 5%). If players review rake at other online poker rooms, they will discover that it is the standard for the rake caps to be the same when 5 or more players are dealt into a hand. PokerStars has been the one notable exception to this system.

In summary we still believe that the proposed rake system taken as a whole would result in a more balanced and fair rake system for players. However, given that players have responded so negatively to this change, which also has a cost to PokerStars due to the reduced rake, we felt that the best course of action is to cancel the change.

The change to the Weighted Contributed method of awarding VPPs will remain as announced.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=30628730&postcount=409

it takes two to create rake.  Stealing or restealing creates no rake.  And anit is just as likely to iso a fish as a lag.  So the only difference is really that laggier players create more coolers between each other.

Now if Stars would standardise 6vpps per $1 for every game - I'd be happy.

LOL @ all the FR nits moaning though, deal with it. It's not 2005 anymore!

go look at the threads on 2+2 when FTP changed over.  It was all great f the nits, then 2 weeks later - wat! I'm 40 vpip at plo and I'm getting less rakeback.

wow. player power threatening a sit out stops the change.

[  ] this was the reason

What was then? I can't see why a company would not respond to a large section of their customer base kicking off for the world to see?

No point trying tto make 10% off your regs if you lose 15/20% of their custom/volume.

So you're saying everyone gets fewer vpps? Obv not true unless stars change how many vpps are paid out.

Appreciate vpip isn't the be all and end all, but the people who create more rake than average do better from weighted contribution rakeback, that average is different in different games. 40 vpip at plo was probably tighter than average on full tilt. Think about it logically: If you are on a table with 5 identical tighter players (perhaps shortstackers kindly supplied by badbeat or brs) and are in 60% of the raked pots whereas they are in only 30% each, which system is better for you? It doesn't matter if your vpip is 20 or 50, all that matters is the relative difference.

Just pointing out at the levels where the rake cap matters there isn't as big a difference between a lag and a tag as some seem to think.

not talking about the rake cap, talking about dealt vs weighted contribution vpp/rakeback distribution

I'm talking about lowish limits where the rake cap  -$60 pot - is rarely exceeded.  So the bigger pots are as much lag vs fish as tag vs fish.  Higher limits are different as the big pots that the tags play are usually way over $60 and the numerous small pots that the lags play are usually under.

I'm slightly pished, but do you know what point I'm trying to make?

no tbh, sorry :S

No need to be sorry - get pished and read it all again.

 ;D

How do you see it as large? I am assuming it was a few hundred at the absolute max of winning players who post on 2+2?

I see that as a tiny group and a group which pokerstars would most benefit (in the long run) if they got rid of them.

I agree with the numbers but other forums such as this use NVG etc as a quasi RSS feed for poker. I think even if this manages to effect even 500 regs play thereyou have to bare in mind the volume/amount of tables they play. Pokerstars even announce these events to 2p2 so they obviously value the communities opinion and from what i can see there is no overt mutual financial interest.

Daleroxxu Dale Philip
First 1200 PLO hands of 2012, old rake system = 470 VPPs. New rake system = 312 VPPs. Played 22 vpip at avg 30 vpip tables.
2 hours ago Favorite Retweet Reply

Lol, Stars have restricted people to 1 table who are trying to sit out.

pretty smart!

Dale also made a pretty good post about it here: http://www.daleroxxu.co.uk/2012/01/pokerstars-new-vpp-award-method.html

Good to see at least 1 stars reg catching up with what the rest of the world realised 2 years ago..


Pretty easy to take back a discount that people complain about. Win/win.

It wasn't a discount. It was taking from one and giving to another. Plo100/200 would have been dormant. I agree with the change to weighted though. Breakeven rake back pros just got ita bit harder

They didn't take back the Weighted Contribution part of the changes. They took back the reduction from 5 to 4.5% and rake cap changes that they claimed would result in a net decrease in rake. Either they're liars or it was a discount that people complained about.

don't think so. they've created a festering sore (and apparently they are messing up ppl who are trying to play normally).

A decrease for some and an increase for others. 5 handed 6 max tables rake was to increase along with higher stakes games.

It did work out to a net decrease for the majority of the player poop though. Obviously there are two elements to the complaints and i agree its funny they took away the part most 2p2 regs didnt care about.

FWIW they are also advocating more vpps and not a decrease in rake now. Pathetic how they are not looking out for the player pool but just a small section of SNE

tweeted by Barry


http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/world-of-poker/PokerStrategy.com-Receives-Exclusive-Statement-From-PokerStars-on-Rake-Changes_55237/

its definitely good for the game especially in the long run.

Nice cliffs by pokerstrategy but exclusive is journalistic license. The whole piece is a condensed version of the 2+2 threads with 3 lines at the end which add nothing to the story.

Greedy Greedy Pokerstars

http://www.poker.org/news/pokerstars-rake-changes-creates-player-uproar-14260/

what happened to Mr Positive? People gotta make money you know!  ;)

always up beat and positive Guy  :D  just pointing out the facts for the good of the blonde cause

when have facts ever mattered :)

True  :)

Outcome of the negotiations

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/pokerstars-player-representatives-report-1159145/