blonde poker forum

We are in the Grand Prix, day 1a at dtd on a juicy table with no competant players..  We have even gotten prop bets going with 3 of the table (in a tournament yes) and have been 'getting the table going', while playing very few hands and winning them all, up to around 18k.

Background - we have seen villan 1 in this hand play AQ oop as follows: donk AQx call raise, donk x call raise, check x.
Also played AK oop cautious on Axx, however didn't seem to be able to click the fold button when the other in the hand.  He seems bad but relatively 'solid' with startings hands and obv never folding top pair. 

I am certain he is the kind to call it off bad but rarely raise bluff.. obv a common 'type' in these and other <£1k comps.


So, our hand..

We have  Ahrt 2h in the SB and there is a raise from MP2, called by villain 1 in hijack and villain 2 on btn.

Flop
Ad Ac 2c

We check, OR checks, Villain 1 bets 200, Villain 2 raises to 900, we call.  Then Villain 1 makes it 2200.... Hmmm - he got an A = wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii! (with the intention of check shoving ANY non club turn - wana rep a draw innit, n these boys won't fold any A if they have one).

(hmmm thats a good flop :D)

Turn
6c

We check with the hate of 'how can we get all our moneys in now' he probably aint going to stack off without a big club but lets check to see if we can get him to bet his Ax/ clubs/ any A with any club..

He bets 1200 (yes 1200 into like 5.5k), we believe this to be him trying to 'get us to open our flush hands by raising' while he still gets value from worse Ax's or maybe even induce a raise from us if he has a flush. We call.  He's defo level 1 thinking!

River
8s

We decide that the only value we're getting here is from Ax or clubs and that we've played this hand exactly like a weak A.. so a check, small raise here will give him the opportunity to get to showdown cheap-ish without looking too silly if we have better.  And we win a 13k pot with like 9k behind and continue our good start.

We check and he bets 1600.. we make it 5850 and he says 'Oh is that a raise....... I'm all in'.

We snap before even thinking... 38k or so in the middle...



I think that because he bet raises the flop he should never have  Aspades 8h/  Aspades 8d/ Aspades 8c/ Aspades 6s/ Aspades 6d/ Aspades 6h which are the only hands that actually beat us.

However from the previous hands we've seen him play AK/ AQ.. he obviously isn't raising here with them.  Which only leaves him with  Kc  2c and the rest of the 'nut flushes' or  Qc 2c type 'value' hands (in this spot I personally think he is NEVER bluffing), Obv we beat all of those..

There are a couple of other houses he can have..  Aspades 2s/ Aspades 2h/ Aspades 2d/  8h 8d/ 8c 8d/  8c 8h/ 6d 6h/ 6d 6s/ 6d 6s... and we beat all those..

BUT IS HE EVER RAISING THEM ON THE FLOP??? however he did raise pretty small on the flop really. 900 to 2200 vs two opponents??


I realise I'm asking whether we are going to ever consider folding a full house on this river in a £60 comp with lots of ability to re-entry and so on.. but what I guess im asking is that even though there are only 6 hands in the entire world that could beat us if he is allowed to pick any hand he wants, does he EVER raise here without them?

he cant have k2/q2 DUCY?

Why don't u just shove the flop if Ur sure he has an ace and will never fold?

Gotta do this before I can actually read it...

25/50 playing 18k

MP raises to 150, Villain 1 calls from HJ, Villain 2 calls on the button, Hero calls in SB with  Ahrt 2h

Pot 650
Flop  Ad Ac 2c

Hero checks,  MP checks, villain 1 bets 200, villain 2 raises to 900, Hero calls, Villain 1 3bets to 2200, what Villain 2 does it a mystery but assumed a fold, Hero calls

Pot 5.5k
Turn  6c

Hero checks, Villain bets 1200, Hero calls

Pot 7.9k
River  8s

Hero checks, Villain bets 1600, Hero raises to 5850, Villain all in for a mystery amount but Hero has 8600 behind, Hero calls

Yer thanks Dan.. Still getting used to how to put it all clearly.

Yes villain 2 folds otf.  And yes he can have K2cc or Q2cc Patrick, but I'm trying to convince myself he would shove with them otr.. but I'm just not sure.. and if he does then why would he reraise the flop with some parsley in his hand?  Doesn't seem to add up.. no?

The reason I'm posting the hand is that when I discussed it with a friend who I think is a very good 6max cash player his words when I said the river action and the saying "oh is that a raise, I'm all in" is that he said "well, you're beat.. clearly".

And obv we are trying to play this skill game and use our 'edge' in every spot, even when its vs Mr nit Mcnitterson and he 6bts us pre and we have KK's... we fold because we know Mr nit Mcnitterson only has AA when he does this.  Vs G2L, Stato, Lex Gouldhuis, DM, Lil' Dave or other such players we would obv take our KK and fistpump put our chips in.


If in this spot, "we're beat, clearly..." then we obv can't put our chips in... but before I give the hand conclusion its just a thought point, with live reads FTW and all that, can we really expect to be ahead here?


Anyone have a hand that fits his line..?

Call raise pre - bet/ raise flop small vs 2 players on  Ad Ac 2c - bet 1/5 pot on  6c - bet 1/5 pot then snap shove for 25k (covers us) on  8s...

jb

In before multiple deuce of clubs

yer yer Dubai, well done.. gold star! now can I have the opinion of a trophy winning dad to be please?

Congrats on both the trophy and the newborn btw.

i mean, we have a full house and it's a pretty good one and we can reenter, so let's just call?

Would he play deuces this way?

My head hurts.

The speech certainly makes it look like you're beaten, "oh is that a raise, I'm all in" usually a solid indicator of strength.

Why have we identified this guy as level 1 + can't fold top pair, coolered him pretty hard OTF and decided to take a ridiculously fancy "trappy" line, followed by a 4 paragraph strategy post?

We have a boat, he has trips, he won't fold for all the tea in china and we've decided to try and "trap" him... way way too fancy just hit the raise button somewhere lol

You've just got to jam the flop (or raise/get it in depending on stacks) you said it before, he's straight forward thinking, he won't fold an ace, you're out of position on later streets, there is a flush draw out there, there are bad turn cards that could kill your action (any club).

Thats ~68 reasons why you should get it in OTF, i could probably think of more.

In this comp, against a weak player, as played, i'm not folding the 3rd nuts on the river.

Ok,

I get the idea of getting more in otf.. but its got to be difficult to get even the most basic level 1 thinker to put 15k in on AA2 with A5-AJ..?

Its 50/100 and 350 pre.. so theres 4x350 +1xbb 100 = 1600

He bets 200, raised to 900, we flat, he makes it 2200 and we flat = 2x2200 + 900 = 6900 otf.


IF we dont flat the 2200 and instead now 'backraise' to like 5.2k- 6.8k then obv its an easy turn shove if he flats.. but I just dont want to see him go away with a weak-ish ace.. and we dont care if he 'hits' his kicker cos we're not folding anyways.

It just seems a lot easier for us to get it in ott or otr when we flat the flop, because he'll level himself saying "john wouldve raised a big Ace on the flop"..


Does anyone know what I mean? It seems a lot of you just want to get it in otf..???

Do we play the hand the same in Grand Prix (£50), DTD 500, GUKPT £1k, EPTs???

Errrrr really?

Level 1 thinkers do not worry about what the oppo has. He see's 3 cards all looking the same and wants to get all his chips across the line asap.
Level 2 would also call a shove as he would decide you have a flush draw.
Level 3... dunno, i'm level 1

Everything you've said is correct r.e easier to get stacks in on the turn + how he should be proceeding cuatiously with his smaller aces but you've identified him as someone who won't be folding and you have the nuts...

poker can be a pretty simple game sometimes

Fair enough all..

Obviously he had a winning  Aspades 6d in the end.. Im trying not to be RO but can't see how I can play the hand except to try n get it in on the flop.. n I just think it will be hard to get that much in otf because when he makes it 2200 i cant just shove for 17k more can i?  I've seen even the worst players pass big hands when someone else makes a ridiculous overbet.

e.g. Seen a guy check raise for 200bb's into a 10bb pot and OR folded AA on J72 board.. saying 'I dont know what you can have but I guess I fold'.. (raiser obv had JJ and showed, love the fishes! and their logix).


Obviously we're not going to win this hand ever when he turns the magic 6c.. but I'm wondering if it could be us being sickly good on this river if we fold??

I'm really not sure about him having a flush here.. (on phone to Pinchop) but that's probably the only thing that 'makes sense' esp with tiny turn n river bets, and the speech and then the SNAP shove...

just a gross spot.. but hand reading with me sigh calling on the river is a nice and this time, correct live read!  Better get my re-entry out of the ATM then.. nice to be right, costs though! :D

The only concern here is if he folds the flop. It's not a comp to concern yourself with folding none nut houses.

You just got coolered.

If you get it in on the flop he might actually pass. That would be bad because you were winning.

River can possibly be a fold in other comps but not this one.

Seems to be another example of you massively overthinking this spot.

You have identified the table are all 'not competant' and this particular villain doesn't like the fold button. Just raise the flop and you probs just get it in / he calls and then doesn't fold on any turn when you shove. Playing live comps like this, playing strong hands aggressively is massively > playing tricky. 1) People don't like to fold 2) People like to spaz out when people are showing aggression.

I tried to get the table going by offering anyone at the table action in 'pair props' at different stakes..

pick any 'pair' and when they come out you're paid by the 'street' it comes on - as long as its 'claimed' on that street.

so I have  5s 5c and you get paid as follows

Flop
1p/10p/£1

Turn
2p/20p/£2

River
5p/50p/£5

and a bonus if you flop both of your props..of £1/£10/£20


One guy I know comes in for the big version but the rest of the table shit themselves at this idea.. but a smart looking kid comes in for the 'small version' and we're off!

Dude -  9h 9d
Kid -  6h 6d

Then after 20mins the kid decides to 'come up' to the big leagues and we get another in...

Other -  8h 8d

Then obv the kid runs like god and hits 2x flop, 1x turn, 1x river and a BOTH on flop for a total of £29 from each of us... he f*ckin freerolls the event! :D

Then I'm nocked out in the cooler descirbed in this thread and the action dies.. - boooooooo!



Love it, getting my tourny table in the props! :D

You'll understand the pain when Rastafish sits in your cash table at 330am for the last 45 minutes of the evening, you're having a great session, nice and quiet and civilised. He suggests playing props, we agree, we play the £5/10/25 version, £50 if you hit both, with double and treble rollovers. He choses kings, 15 minutes later and he's already run golden, hit two in a row meaning he's on trebles for the next hand. Flop Kxx and he turns the Ks which is £150 a man. He goes absolutely berserk.

To make it worse he had Kx in his hand.

#whenwillitend?

indeed

me and my friend in Vegas were drinking and playing one night and were doing prop suits  of $60 for the flop, $100 for the turn $140 for the river and doubling up everytime the props weren't won (so if we got the flop one one we doubled the turn and river for next hand) and obv if we saw no flop the whole lot doubled, we got it to a point where there was about $600 for the flop, $1k for the turn and about $2k for the river and I was taking red cards...

I got dealt 6d 2d and it folds to me in LP so I raise to 6x try to take it preflop obv, he peels otb + blinds call

flop comes  Qs 6h 2h

I bet $400 he calls

Turn was the  Td

I bet $1.2k he calls

river was the 7d

I check cos i felt so bad about straight up ironing him out and he tilt slams Kh Jh down...

he tilt quit the game after that hand :D

#lovethegame

1:07 ALL RED!

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJbbwsdKx78

Never understood why in live cash when people bet "props" they get punished for not saying theirs came in??? I mean it makes zero sense, once the bet has been made you should be paid regardless, and why would u ever want people paying more attention at the table to what at best is a pretty dull pasttime. Less attention people are paying the bigger your edge etc, so the whole thing makes no sense to me- and if someone tried to tell me i hadnt screamed out "look theres my props" when they hit, id just help myself to the money off their stack

It's all about the tilt factor of someone missing.. You'd be surprised how many people start to tilt a little bit each time they miss.. Esp if they've been 'running bad' in a 0ev game.. :P

Also obv gets the 'gamblers' at the table going.. They only need the smallest of pushes! :D

People are paying attention to the prop and nothing else, they might even pay less attention to the action since that doesn't concern their prop.  Its like when you look at your watch and then someone asks you the time, a lit of the time you have to look twice. Same psychological theory I believe..

#Lildaveisapropbragginghero!

#ObvrastaFrunsgoodinprops

sure am winning lifetime from 0ev gambling

#needtokeepmoralehighobv

Have to disagree Dubai, like John says, they're great for the game and the fish love em, loosens them up, ppl stay longer cos the game is entertaining, make bad calls in game to see another card if they're on for doubles etc, it's defo good for the game.

Needling ppl when they miss theirs is fun too as well as the tilt factor.

Yeah never thought of it like that I guess. I'd defo miss mine lol

Look Alex, Dubai missed his Js on the river...

Oh wait.. He just won a WPT.. Who ever cared about £20??? :P

WP sir.

Plus for the record, one of the best games I've ever played in was a 50/1 at dtd where all 8 players were in on props and one dude decided to go against the grain and have 4c 7c.. He bought in for 100 and had a side stack for his prop winnings.. Which after an hour were £104..

#Runbetterinprops

it absolutley changes the game lol

if a guy's prop is 8's and all of a sudden he randomly iso's to 15x you can be pretty confident his includes 1, most prolly 2, 8's lol

OR DOES IT :)

Please expand on 'against the grain and have 4c 7c..'
Or do you just mean 'didn't pick two black/red Xs' where 9> X>1

Yeah I mean 7/8 players had a pair and colour.. I think it was something like:  5s 5c,  Ad Ah, KC Ks, Js Jc, Jh Jd, 10h 10d, 6c 6s


And then 4c 7c.. I have never in my life seen so many turns and rivers of 4c + 7c for a combo hit of £2+5/ per person each time... As usual my 5s 5c ran good but nothing like that.

Bust grand prix again last night..

Is this standard?

blinds 100/200 no ante..
We're playing 7.2k

utg limps for 200, utg +1 makes it 750, called by LP ubernit (could have ak) and we find 3c 3h in SB..

Standard shove?

No. A very very standard fold.

This, only not enough "very's" included

+1

any argument to set mine here? or does utg limper put us off?