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Title: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Eso Kral on January 16, 2012, 01:12:19 PM Grand Prix Day 1b £50
Villain youngish guy in a hoodie over his head with decent headphones on and covers us with 40k at the start of the hand and has iso'd ip against the weaker players on the table without showdown. We have 26k and have moved to the table about 1 hour ago and have lost AK v 99 aipf for 10k having 4b setting the short stack in and also lost 6d 7d v 4h 4s on a 4d 5c 9d all in on the 7s turn in an Iso raised pot, so Villain should have no reason to feel I am light here. Blinds 200/400/25 I open utg to 975 with 4s 6s and get flatted by villain otb with both blinds folding (2750) Flop 6c 2h Jd and we lead for 1450 again villain flats (5650) Turn Qs I barrel 3200 and the villain flats again (should I give up now? bet sizeing ok?) (12500) River 7h I decide to fire the 3rd bullet and bet 7600 which the villain insta calls. Is this just a massive spew that i need to eradicate from my game and should I just c/f the turn? Now that we are on the river wwyd? Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: SuuPRlim on January 16, 2012, 02:00:33 PM I have a few tournament rules.
1) People seriously need to stop wearing those massive headphones, I mean wtf yes yes well done you "like your music" and you can afford sick headphones which drown all the surrounding noise out but you have to take them off every 3 minutes to hear what people are saying. Clowns. 2) People hate folding, since the "serve and volley" has grown in popularity and become a well known trick (S&V = raising pre the bombing your stack off as your range gets thiner and thiner) a lot of players, escpially those from an internet tournament background or recreational players like to get the sherriff's hat on and keep us all honest all the time, this had led to 3berrel ranges becoming joke un-balanced if you're assumed anyway aggressive because people never fold, despite how many time you show them it 3) because people refuse to fold pairs, I only like to play big cards from early position, so I can make bigger pairs than curious colin in seat 8 who isn't going to fold his Q9 on A39J8. In this specific hand the turn card thins your percieved range a ton, AQ/QQ/KK/AA/JJ/66 are now you're "LEGIT" value hands, although you could be going for thin value with some J*'s quite feesibly but because you're over 30 your young villain prolly doesn't think you can (little does he know you're a total sicko :D) so this coupled with the fact he's prolly "made a plan" once he calls the turn I think he's bluff-catching the river almost always so I would give up OTR for sure. I don;t hate betting the turn at all cos you have equity (4's and 6's) and you could feesibly get him off his 55/77/88 hands but firing the river is going to work very infrequently cos the board texture is identical OTR. Chk the river back, hope he has 45 and was planning a reverse double float c/r and when he shows you 88 say nice turn call, here's £40 go buy some headphones that don't make you look like a bad wedding D-J. Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Dubai on January 16, 2012, 02:05:29 PM Hahahaha the old serve and volley
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: SuuPRlim on January 16, 2012, 02:11:36 PM (http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42774000/jpg/_42774235_h4.jpg)
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Dubai on January 16, 2012, 02:13:14 PM Sam Mac must be Karlovic, you're Jo Durie
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: strak33 on January 16, 2012, 02:51:13 PM I have a few tournament rules. 1) People seriously need to stop wearing those massive headphones, I mean wtf yes yes well done you "like your music" and you can afford sick headphones which drown all the surrounding noise out but you have to take them off every 3 minutes to hear what people are saying. Clowns. 2) People hate folding, since the "serve and volley" has grown in popularity and become a well known trick (S&V = raising pre the bombing your stack off as your range gets thiner and thiner) a lot of players, escpially those from an internet tournament background or recreational players like to get the sherriff's hat on and keep us all honest all the time, this had led to 3berrel ranges becoming joke un-balanced if you're assumed anyway aggressive because people never fold, despite how many time you show them it 3) because people refuse to fold pairs, I only like to play big cards from early position, so I can make bigger pairs than curious colin in seat 8 who isn't going to fold his Q9 on A39J8. In this specific hand the turn card thins your percieved range a ton, AQ/QQ/KK/AA/JJ/66 are now you're "LEGIT" value hands, although you could be going for thin value with some J*'s quite feesibly but because you're over 30 your young villain prolly doesn't think you can (little does he know you're a total sicko :D) so this coupled with the fact he's prolly "made a plan" once he calls the turn I think he's bluff-catching the river almost always so I would give up OTR for sure. I don;t hate betting the turn at all cos you have equity (4's and 6's) and you could feesibly get him off his 55/77/88 hands but firing the river is going to work very infrequently cos the board texture is identical OTR. Chk the river back, hope he has 45 and was planning a reverse double float c/r and when he shows you 88 say nice turn call, here's £40 go buy some headphones that don't make you look like a bad wedding D-J. This whole post is great. Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Spraggs on January 16, 2012, 03:27:42 PM If i'm going for the 3rd bullet, i'm probably wagering all of my chips.
c-bet and turn barrel are fine, will usually fold out all mid pairs that haven't setted up, floats and some Jacks dependant on opponent. Really think i am jamming river depending on how quickly he was making the calls. It's all in or chk/fold. He shows up AJ KJ here soooo often, and a jam will put him in a horrible spot with these. Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: DMorgan on January 16, 2012, 03:51:54 PM If i'm going for the 3rd bullet, i'm probably wagering all of my chips. c-bet and turn barrel are fine, will usually fold out all mid pairs that haven't setted up, floats and some Jacks dependant on opponent. Really think i am jamming river depending on how quickly he was making the calls. It's all in or chk/fold. He shows up AJ KJ here soooo often, and a jam will put him in a horrible spot with these. Live £50 freezeout with a million more days to re-enter, no way he folds AJ here, maybe KJ but doubt it Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Spraggs on January 16, 2012, 04:00:37 PM they're basically the same hand
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: DMorgan on January 16, 2012, 04:04:14 PM Hence the same result, probably never folding
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Spraggs on January 16, 2012, 04:16:51 PM Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: George2Loose on January 16, 2012, 04:20:57 PM Dave is right. You can show them the nuts 7 times and they'll still call you the 8th cos you could be bluffing.
Although I still open 64ss utg. Fuck folding that! Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Eso Kral on January 16, 2012, 04:22:10 PM Dave is right. You can show them the nuts 7 times and they'll still call you the 8th cos you could be bluffing. Lololol I knew you would have my back goose!!! ;)Although I still open 64ss utg. Fuck folding that! Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: George2Loose on January 16, 2012, 04:24:01 PM Dave is right. You can show them the nuts 7 times and they'll still call you the 8th cos you could be bluffing. Lololol I knew you would have my back goose!!! ;)Although I still open 64ss utg. Fuck folding that! Yeh pretty much whenever says "fold pre" you can bet your last dollar that I would be clicking the raise button Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Dubai on January 16, 2012, 04:27:02 PM LilDave gives real good reasons why its not a great hand in a single raised pot- when semi deep it probably is a better hand to 3bet in position with than it is to open UTG
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Eso Kral on January 16, 2012, 04:31:19 PM LilDave gives real good reasons why its not a great hand in a single raised pot- when semi deep it probably is a better hand to 3bet in position with than it is to open UTG Yeah his post as usual is top dorrarTitle: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: EvilPie on January 16, 2012, 04:36:45 PM I know this won't add much to the argument but I agree with Dubai.
I'd never be opening this utg in this comp unless perhaps I'd been running all over the table. 3 bet late position is good but utg against stations is bad. I don't mind it if we're giving up when we don't make 2 pair minimum because our implied odds are brilliant. It looks like we get paid big when we hit but our reverse implied odds when we look for thin value or bluff are terrible. Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Dubai on January 16, 2012, 04:37:51 PM Im just agreeing with LilDave mate. He is the boss these days
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: George2Loose on January 16, 2012, 04:40:24 PM I agree with Matt fwiw.
Just so I can say I agree with Dubai and Dave. Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: SuuPRlim on January 16, 2012, 04:55:24 PM Im just agreeing with LilDave mate. He is the boss these days Dear Mum, Please read above quote from blonde poker forum and kindly stop hassling me to get a job Thanks Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: cambridgealex on January 16, 2012, 05:25:19 PM always opening this pre in a dtd 50quid comp early on. don't care if its bad, they're worse.
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: mulhuzz on January 16, 2012, 05:49:34 PM Im just agreeing with LilDave mate. He is the boss these days Dear Mum, Please read above quote from blonde poker forum and kindly stop hassling me to get a job Thanks <3 great to know that even the geniuses have mums that don't get poker! Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: DMorgan on January 16, 2012, 06:18:09 PM always opening this pre in a dtd 50quid comp early on. don't care if its bad, they're worse. Live pro itt :P Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: titaniumbean on January 16, 2012, 06:20:41 PM Im just agreeing with LilDave mate. He is the boss these days Dear Mum, Please read above quote from blonde poker forum and kindly stop hassling me to get a job Thanks Ahrt Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Bully87 on January 16, 2012, 07:14:57 PM Love the insults of the villain and the headphone generalisation. Wp Wp.
I was actually the villain in this hand, I also know of the hero from updates and various threads/PHA's so know hero is capable. As for the hand, the flat pre IP pretty standard for me, no need to inflate it pre. No need to raise flop, let you barrell. Turn wasnt a great card but felt like you'd always bet it if you put me on TP at least. Decided if I was calling turn I'm calling most river bets, probably not a shove, so much like Dave said, I'd made a plan. gg btw Eso and sorry for the beat. Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: cambridgealex on January 16, 2012, 08:01:52 PM u make it through bully?
always opening this pre in a dtd 50quid comp early on. don't care if its bad, they're worse. Live pro itt :P confirmed Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: SuuPRlim on January 16, 2012, 08:04:26 PM Love the insults of the villain and the headphone generalisation. Wp Wp. Ha! I had a feeling when I was writing the bit about the headphones that it'd be someone on blonde lol but i was in a confrontational mood so went with it. Seriously though, those headphones really tilt me, no offence intended, some of my best friends also like massive headphones and I tell them they look stupid as well :D Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Bully87 on January 16, 2012, 08:19:30 PM u make it through bully? Yes via a suckout vs Eso for a 60k pot, both had the same idea, I open shoved Aspades Js into Eso's Ad Kh and binked a J. Taking 23bbs through (56k) so might be a shortlived return on Saturday. None taken dave, but sometimes you just need to block out people like Mr.Justification in seat 5 for example. Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: George2Loose on January 16, 2012, 08:22:02 PM 23 bigs is huge
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: SuuPRlim on January 16, 2012, 08:26:29 PM None taken dave, but sometimes you just need to block out people like Mr.Justification in seat 5 for example. I hear that. Shame i get more tilted by big headphones than Mr. Justification, so if I'm at a table with Mr J and 2 youngkidswithtoomuchheadphone blocking him out im basically raging lol Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Eso Kral on January 16, 2012, 10:54:24 PM Love the insults of the villain and the headphone generalisation. Wp Wp. Hey Bully never realised it was u, you should have said when we shook hands at the ko!! Ps dont worry about Daves headphone phobia as I have a big pair too but just dont wear them ;)I was actually the villain in this hand, I also know of the hero from updates and various threads/PHA's so know hero is capable. As for the hand, the flat pre IP pretty standard for me, no need to inflate it pre. No need to raise flop, let you barrell. Turn wasnt a great card but felt like you'd always bet it if you put me on TP at least. Decided if I was calling turn I'm calling most river bets, probably not a shove, so much like Dave said, I'd made a plan. gg btw Eso and sorry for the beat. GLGL on Saturday!! Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: SuuPRlim on January 16, 2012, 11:12:41 PM got nothing against big headphones.
Just a time and a place that's all :D Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: outragous76 on January 17, 2012, 12:45:59 AM ive got a big pair too
but i dont wear headphones at the table Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Spraggs on January 17, 2012, 12:32:05 PM Decided if I was calling turn I'm calling most river bets, probably not a shove, so much like Dave said, I'd made a plan. o rly? Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: SuuPRlim on January 17, 2012, 01:22:04 PM Decided if I was calling turn I'm calling most river bets, probably not a shove, so much like Dave said, I'd made a plan. o rly? ;kneelsucker; we still don't know what his hand was? Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Bully87 on January 17, 2012, 01:29:36 PM Decided if I was calling turn I'm calling most river bets, probably not a shove, so much like Dave said, I'd made a plan. o rly? ;kneelsucker;r we still don't know what his hand was? Take a stab Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Spraggs on January 17, 2012, 01:53:04 PM KJ/AJ/JT/88-TT
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: cambridgealex on January 17, 2012, 01:55:33 PM AJ/KJ
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: mulhuzz on January 17, 2012, 01:56:11 PM the stone nuts
Title: Re: I know its a fold pre! but should we give up on the turn? Post by: Bully87 on January 17, 2012, 01:57:11 PM Guess its pretty obvs Aspades Js
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