Title: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: LOJ on January 25, 2012, 12:38:19 PM Anyone know where I can get tourney updates for above. One of my mates playing and want to follow him. cheers Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 25, 2012, 02:25:09 PM No updates on side events m8 hope he dose well . Some decent players left I'n 23 left 11 paid
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: Raf White on January 25, 2012, 03:14:04 PM Players returning for day 2 of the £300
Tuesday 24/01/2012 MA05 NLH Freezeout £300 Holdem Chip Count and Table Seat Name --------------------- 30,100 5 3 Badat, Miya 90,675 5 4 Cartwright, Anthony 65,300 3 7 Crisp, Nicholas 105,175 4 1 Dandanfard, Amir 43,375 5 6 Doyle, Allan 26,225 4 5 Dyson, Mark 26,350 3 1 Greenhough, David 44,975 3 4 Haigh, John Michael 23,600 4 8 Hickling, Tim 65,450 4 2 Hill, Michael "Da Bookie" 21,875 3 3 Hunt, Gregory 31,025 4 6 Hunter, Lewis 68,625 5 2 Jackson, Nathan 117,175 4 7 Khilosia, Pravin 14,275 3 5 Maqbool, Maimunah 89,575 5 1 Nicholson, Maurice 22,475 4 4 Oakes, Michael 35,375 3 8 Olympios, Andreas 63,400 3 2 Owens, Terence 40,725 5 5 Pickles, Carl 14,750 3 6 Sarwar, Nadim 20,275 5 7 Shahid, Waseem 72,575 4 3 Smith, David "Smithy" Players Remaining ..... 23 Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 25, 2012, 03:44:53 PM Your 2 good m8 let's hope we win tngt should be a cracker like Sunday top game
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 25, 2012, 04:51:52 PM Now then Raf. How many runners expected for the sat tonight and how long is late reg for. Can't get a pass out till the kids are settled.
Cheers Jason Herbert Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: Raf White on January 25, 2012, 04:56:58 PM 5c
Now then Raf. How many runners expected for the sat tonight and how long is late reg for. Can't get a pass out till the kids are settled. Jason, the satellite is tomorrow night (Thursday). I'd expect between 20-30 runners and you'll be able to buy in till 11pm. Cheers Jason Herbert Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 25, 2012, 04:57:57 PM 5c Ffs Now then Raf. How many runners expected for the sat tonight and how long is late reg for. Can't get a pass out till the kids are settled. Jason, the satellite is tomorrow night (Thursday). I'd expect between 20-30 runners and you'll be able to buy in till 11pm. Cheers Jason Herbert Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 25, 2012, 05:01:14 PM On their site it defo says 25th mate.
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: MLHMLH on January 25, 2012, 05:03:09 PM There's definitely a main event satellite tonight Jason, starts at 8.30pm (£150 freezeout). Should generate 12/13 seats at a guess.
Michelle Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 25, 2012, 05:06:40 PM Cheers matey. Think someone's a bit worried that by me turning up that it's one seat gone. Either that or he is anti railing this as marketing manager for a rival firm. Raf White sir you are no gent :)
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: MLHMLH on January 25, 2012, 05:09:40 PM Cheers matey. Think someone's a bit worried that by me turning up that it's one seat gone. Either that or he is anti railing this as marketing manager for a rival firm. Raf White sir you are no gent :) I actually think Raf was talking about the satellite at Salford tomorrow night for a main event seat into the Genting Poker Series main at Star City! Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 25, 2012, 05:15:44 PM Cheers matey. Think someone's a bit worried that by me turning up that it's one seat gone. Either that or he is anti railing this as marketing manager for a rival firm. Raf White sir you are no gent :) I actually think Raf was talking about the satellite at Salford tomorrow night for a main event seat into the Genting Poker Series main at Star City! Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: Raf White on January 25, 2012, 05:22:11 PM Sorry Jason, crossed wires, was doing work on the GPS and satellites and then saw your post.
GukPT £150(+£15) Super Satellite to Main Event, tonight, 8.30pm, 7500 chips, 3 x 30 min levels and then 20 min levels. You can buy in for the first 3 levels, so that'll be till 10 o'clock. Good luck Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 25, 2012, 05:23:26 PM Sorry Jason, crossed wires, was doing work on the GPS and satellites and then saw your post. Ty. Looking forward to seeing some old friendsGukPT £150(+£15) Super Satellite to Main Event, tonight, 8.30pm, 7500 chips, 3 x 30 min levels and then 20 min levels. You can buy in for the first 3 levels, so that'll be till 10 o'clock. Good luck Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: mapp888 on January 26, 2012, 02:30:12 PM Anyone know the results for the 300 pounds side event? and also the other side events...
Thanks! Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: LOJ on January 26, 2012, 02:58:20 PM Cheers for the info. It was nathan jackson I was interested in. He went out 12th, AK not good enough for QQ..... Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: TightEnd on January 26, 2012, 03:23:06 PM Anyone know the results for the 300 pounds side event? and also the other side events... Thanks! these are sent out at the end of the week. I will post them up on Monday morning Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: outragous76 on January 26, 2012, 04:09:59 PM oooohhhhhhhhhhh
live poker, actually tempted to chance a satty! Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: toddswain on January 26, 2012, 04:12:58 PM They did a deal 4 handed and played on for champion of champions seat
Tournament Result Tuesday 24/01/2012 MA05 NLH Freezeout £300 Holdem 1...Maurice Nicholson £6.250 2...Pravin Khilosia £6.250 3...Carl Pickles £6.250 4...Amir Dandanfard £6.250 5...Nicholas Crisp £2,370 6...Gregory Hunt £1,700 7...David Smith £1,360 8...Anthony Cartwright £1,020 9...Michael Hill £850 10...Andreas Olympios £850 11...Tim Hickling £340 11...Miya Badat £340 Entries 113 TOTAL: £33,900 Re-Buys .. 0 Add-Ons .. 0 Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: mapp888 on January 26, 2012, 06:39:30 PM Thanks for that Toddswain. Nice to see the local lads cashing but shame they didnt win. must have been really exciting to watch last 2 tables tho!
Title: GUKPT Manc Post by: pleno1 on January 27, 2012, 02:40:03 PM Any site with updates?
Title: Re: GUKPT Manc Post by: TightEnd on January 27, 2012, 02:40:45 PM http://www.grosvenorukpokertour.com/en/Events/LiveEventBlog/
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: paulhouk03 on January 27, 2012, 02:48:14 PM Nick hicks won the 6 max
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 27, 2012, 03:26:59 PM Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: amcgrath1uk on January 27, 2012, 03:44:28 PM Aces No Good for Trigg
Marc Wright opens to 250, Rick Trigg makes a raise to 650. Action then comes to Michell Bennett who makes it 1900 to play. Marc gets out of the way. Rick thinks before again raising to 3650, Michelle moves all in and Rick makes the call. The pre flop nuts for Rick as he turns over pocket Aces, Michelle tables pocket Kings and is drawing to two outs which both come on the flop as it comes K-K-4!! QUADS for Michelle!! No miracle miracle for Trigg as he heads home. Michell Bennett stacking chips as she is up to close to 40,000. sigh run better Trigg! Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: b4matt on January 27, 2012, 05:28:42 PM Nick hicks won the 6 max Great news. VWP fella.Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: Laxie on January 27, 2012, 06:31:04 PM Nick hicks won the 6 max Great news. VWP fella.Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: TightEnd on January 28, 2012, 08:35:19 AM 50 of 171 left after Day One
188,950 Samuel Grafton 157,100 Michael Kane 127,325 Markou Nicolas 123,375 DavidCockett 116,000 RichardPearson 115,975 JohnHiggins 112,000 Ian Nelson 110,000 MattPerrins 103,700 Kevin Steele 102,825 Danny Blair 93,800 Michelle Bennett 88,000 Simon Wolf 87,000 Gonzalez Garcia 83,275 Michael Joseph Ofarrell 79,475 Mark Wycherley 79,325 Gary Holden 78,150 Lewis Hunter 78,025 Om Aggarwal 77,575 Andreas Olympios 77,275 Angelo Bilotta 76,075 Stuart Fox 74,650 Mathew Stephen Perry 74,425 Christopher Kadji 68,700David Galo 61,150 Ian Taylor 60,525 Daniel Leak 58,225 Terence Mitford 57,350 Jamie Ellwood 56,000 Ryan Drabble 53,300 Aamir Masood 52,375 Allan Doyle 52,125 John Hanley 51,100 Waseem Shahid 49,025 Karl Mahrenholz 47,875 Chun Law 44,200 Katie Swift 41,550 Kristopher James Graham 41,250 Adam Macguinness 39,600 Yogesh Kotecha 32,925 Daniel Samson 31,425 Richard Herbert 29,125 Samuel Simister 27,600 James Harcourt 26,225 Tim Hickling 25,450Percy Ward 24,900 Guy Webster 22,800 Keith Singleton 22,075 Marcin Milde 19,050 Christian Garvin 17,375 Alex Kong Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: action man on January 28, 2012, 08:45:00 AM oioioi sammy g
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: George2Loose on January 28, 2012, 08:56:30 AM oioioi sammy g Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 28, 2012, 09:09:29 AM glglglglg to lewis hunter and aamir masood
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: claypole on January 28, 2012, 09:15:03 AM It's all about Sammy G - glgl to the squid, he so deserves a live bink
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: George2Loose on January 28, 2012, 09:17:02 AM It's all about Sammy G - glgl to the squid, he so deserves a live bink Hope you're ok buddy Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 28, 2012, 10:18:58 AM One time for Was Shahid and can only assume Kongy never got AA or KK all day and 17,375 is what you are left with if you don't play a hand.
Edit: he just told me he got AA x 3 and KK once picking up the blinds and antes with the AA 's and had to fold to a 3 bet with KK :) Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: SuuPRlim on January 28, 2012, 04:19:53 PM sammy g, perry perrins and big karly mahrenlyellehneholz to final!
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: TightEnd on January 29, 2012, 01:28:01 AM Final Table Chip Counts
Sam Grafton - 1,092,500 Gonzalez Garcia - 429,500 Lewis Hunter - 409,500 Gary Holden - 316,100 Chris Kadji - 315,100 Allan Doyle - 308,900 Kev Steele - 252,500 Danny Blair - 196,800 John Hanley - 93,700 Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 29, 2012, 01:38:46 AM glglglglg to lewis hunter and aamir masood goooooooooo hero Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: Dubai on January 29, 2012, 01:49:38 AM Oi oi Grafton, no idea who the others are so looks a penalty kick son!
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 29, 2012, 01:51:05 AM Kev Steele won Sunday Mill twice I think, Lewis best player left I think but Grafton got sick stack. gllglglg
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: Dubai on January 29, 2012, 01:55:07 AM I read blog where he slammed the table and shouted yes when he doubled? I mean no one any good I know would do that
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: claypole on January 29, 2012, 02:02:34 AM It's all about Sammy G.......so, so, so hope the squid takes this one down - will be one for the good guys
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 29, 2012, 02:05:25 AM I read blog where he slammed the table and shouted yes when he doubled? I mean no one any good I know would do that rofl really? link so i can troll pls. we were giving him sidebets in the skype channel to do com things. he got a villains cap on for $50, standing up shouting holdddddddddd randomly etc. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: The Squid on January 29, 2012, 02:07:14 AM Boom! Sick sweat! I'm loving it! Thanks for rail.
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: skolsuper on January 29, 2012, 02:11:05 AM I read blog where he slammed the table and shouted yes when he doubled? I mean no one any good I know would do that rofl really? link so i can troll pls. we were giving him sidebets in the skype channel to do com things. he got a villains cap on for $50, standing up shouting holdddddddddd randomly etc. Sounds annoying. Boom! Sick sweat! I'm loving it! Thanks for rail. GL Sam. "If on your journey, you should encounter God, God will be bluffed." Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: George2Loose on January 29, 2012, 02:50:22 AM Boom! Sick sweat! I'm loving it! Thanks for rail. gl dude Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 29, 2012, 03:02:29 AM I read blog where he slammed the table and shouted yes when he doubled? I mean no one any good I know would do that just read this hand. :D gl to both tomorrow :) Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: SuuPRlim on January 29, 2012, 03:36:02 AM Kev Steele seemed like a nice bloke when i played with him breifly.
Incred the first time he played the sunday million he won it, then before he'd played it twenty times he'd won it again! waddddddalife :D Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: action man on January 29, 2012, 04:41:01 AM i love karl he;s a top man, but sammy G aint had his live bink yet. He's such a BO$$ seiously. the nicest person ive ever met,
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: flushthemout on January 29, 2012, 08:15:20 AM gl Kev Steele
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: AlrightJack on January 29, 2012, 10:10:01 AM Gl Sam
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: ChipRich on January 29, 2012, 10:13:22 AM oioiiii, glgl Grafton
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: Doobs on January 29, 2012, 10:52:18 AM Kev Steele seemed like a nice bloke when i played with him breifly. Incred the first time he played the sunday million he won it, then before he'd played it twenty times he'd won it again! waddddddalife :D I can't remember his login, but pretty sure he was still playing sats for it after winning it twice. Why would you ever still do that? Bankroll management FTW Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 29, 2012, 01:01:20 PM Kev Steele seemed like a nice bloke when i played with him breifly. Incred the first time he played the sunday million he won it, then before he'd played it twenty times he'd won it again! waddddddalife :D I can't remember his login, but pretty sure he was still playing sats for it after winning it twice. Why would you ever still do that? Bankroll management FTW Sam is class act and hope he wins please Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: action man on January 29, 2012, 01:54:05 PM is there a live stream guys?
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: LeKnave on January 29, 2012, 01:58:58 PM is there a live stream guys? http://www.grosvenorukpokertour.com/en/Events/Live-webcast/ finish it up Sammy boy! Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: amcgrath1uk on January 29, 2012, 02:20:27 PM Allan Doyle is one of the locals, tricky player, be interesting to see how he gets on!
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: SuuPRlim on January 29, 2012, 04:08:23 PM Kev Steele seemed like a nice bloke when i played with him breifly. Incred the first time he played the sunday million he won it, then before he'd played it twenty times he'd won it again! waddddddalife :D I can't remember his login, but pretty sure he was still playing sats for it after winning it twice. Why would you ever still do that? Bankroll management FTW he said he was playing this comp cos he qualified. He isn't a pro poker player and has put the money into his life/family which is infuriatingly sensible of him - DO SOME OF IT BACK KEV Cmonnnnnnnnn!!!! he was a nice guy but we all want sammy g tbh :D Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 29, 2012, 06:56:07 PM OIOI Lewis, now closeeeee
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: George2Loose on January 29, 2012, 06:59:49 PM OIOI Lewis, now closeeeee Blog link or is it just a live stream? Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 29, 2012, 07:02:02 PM OIOI Lewis, now closeeeee http://www.grosvenorukpokertour.com/en/Events/LiveEventBlog/not tighty quality. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: paulhouk03 on January 29, 2012, 07:41:08 PM ahhhhhhhh alan doyle
the one who discribes min raises as "ERRR gay raise" Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 29, 2012, 07:44:36 PM Had 2 laugh at Alan dolyes nickname chuckles of chuckle tv . Ul sam ak v pair of 10s wins that and I'm sure he would have won it
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 29, 2012, 09:09:52 PM Had 2 laugh at Alan dolyes nickname chuckles of chuckle tv . Ul sam ak v pair of 10s wins that and I'm sure he would have won it def wins if he wins that flip. Lolvariance Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 29, 2012, 09:30:38 PM Only 171 runners this year 207 last year going 2 struggle to get numbers I'n main event .
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: pleno1 on January 29, 2012, 10:09:47 PM congrats lewis and ul to sam grafton who deserved more after crushung all weekend. Kev steele obv sicko too.
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: The Squid on January 29, 2012, 11:25:07 PM Sigh at finishing 5th. I'll get em one day...
Hopefully. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 30, 2012, 09:58:00 AM Only 171 runners this year 207 last year going 2 struggle to get numbers I'n main event . Walsall, vic and Blackpool should still do fine but the £500 events and sides have been a bit tez. This weekend is gonna be interesting as genting go head to head with Dtd Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 30, 2012, 10:50:37 AM Yes very interesting where you playing Jason what numbers at star city I will go spread 320/340
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 30, 2012, 11:50:37 AM Yes very interesting where you playing Jason what numbers at star city I will go spread 320/340 I am at Dtd but toyed with the idea of going to star city Thursday but decided against it. Pretty much for the same reason as I always play 1 b even if there is a re entry option. That fallback of "oh well I can re enter if I mess up" ( or go to another event tomorrow ) always seems to go bad for me.The customer loyalty, the extra £50k that Dtd are putting up and the softer field makes it an easy choice for me. As for star city numbers I think 250 will be pretty good as I know they are trying hard and put a lot of effort into their tour. Competition for punters in the £500 to £1k events is massive ATM and its really hard to choose between gukpt, ukipt, genting and Dtd. Less people are traveling these days and I noticed on Manchester this last week that a massive % of the field were locals. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 30, 2012, 12:40:07 PM Going star city . Very true tough choice both comps should be well attended think edingburgh might struggle I'n gps just the expenses makes it costly . Good luck at dtd
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: smashedagain on January 30, 2012, 12:48:53 PM Going star city . Very true tough choice both comps should be well attended think edingburgh might struggle I'n gps just the expenses makes it costly . Good luck at dtd You too. Caroline is working it (oh I like the sound of Caroline working it) so lets get a blonde winner with some blog coverageTitle: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: luckyblind on January 30, 2012, 03:12:36 PM Only 171 runners this year 207 last year going 2 struggle to get numbers I'n main event . Walsall, vic and Blackpool should still do fine but the £500 events and sides have been a bit tez. This weekend is gonna be interesting as genting go head to head with Dtd 171 was a slight disappointment for the main event but overall there were a few more entries in the events that made up the 2012 leg compared to 2011. Big ups were the super satellite on Sunday and the £300 on Tuesday (This was a £500 last year with 67 runner compared to 113 this year.) The Bounty event was down by 46 players from 140 to 94 - the only extra event was a £100 on Saturday night which had 46 players :) Saturday's £500 was only down 17 players versus the £250 event which was at the same time last year. Monday's £100 was down 5 players and Thursday six max up 5. There are 4 more weeks of online qualifiers for Walsall than there was for Manchester which means there should be at least 16 more players in by that route in March. Walsall was leg 3 last year and had 172 players. I predict 207 this year :) The new structure and starting stack seemed well received by players who attended. I was expecting having DTD and Genting next week to make more of an impact on the numbers truth be told, especially as this event is right at the end of most working peoples pay month directly after Christmas and New year. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 30, 2012, 03:53:23 PM Was talking with cardroom manager at Bolton and all us regular players at Bolton and Mcr have asked why is the 500 buy I'n a 6 max when other events are 50k starting stack and normal . Lee has asked it 2 be changed and they said no . Will be lucky if you get 20 and that's from the cardroom manager . Any chance you can talk 2 lee at Bolton cheers
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: luckyblind on January 31, 2012, 02:40:52 PM Was talking with cardroom manager at Bolton and all us regular players at Bolton and Mcr have asked why is the 500 buy I'n a 6 max when other events are 50k starting stack and normal . Lee has asked it 2 be changed and they said no . Will be lucky if you get 20 and that's from the cardroom manager . Any chance you can talk 2 lee at Bolton cheers Not all the other 500 events are Deepstack's. There are four £500 events - two Deepstacks and two 6 Max. There are going to around 40 seats guaranteed in live an online satellites so the 20 estimate is a little way off :) These events were added to give a little bit of a mix to the tour and are replacing the summer series of events that have taken place over the last few years. Last year there were 42 in the Bolton summer series event. I have no doubt that we will smash that at the 6 Max. We know the Deepstack will be more popular than the 6 Max overall and there is nothing to say that Bolton won't get a Deepstack next year. The English Deepstack is going to be in Coventry this year which is not that far for people to travel to from your area. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: scotty77 on January 31, 2012, 02:52:12 PM GUKPT also clashed Manchester with the SPT Luton. Maybe not intentional and also there aren't many free spaces in the calender.
Now due to the difference in BIs, they obviously thought they wouldn't lose than many players however there were between 15-20 who would have played Manchester had they not clashed. Just becuase the SPT is a smaller BI tour aimed at the more recreational/casual player, doesn't mean there aren't a significant number of higher rolled/sponsored players who will always choose the SPT over any other tour due to loyalty and meeting up with friends etc. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: outragous76 on January 31, 2012, 02:57:45 PM I would be really interested to hear from a GUKPT representative about sattelite payouts. On Thursday there were 4 seats and £745 for 5th. We were advised that 5th would be paid in "GUKPT tokens" and not cash!
With a choice of poker series at the moment this is a really strong way to kill your sattelites and therefore number of runners at your first and following events. Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: istrabraq on January 31, 2012, 05:16:29 PM Played eds last year at broadway very good comp and was saying the 6 max might struggle at Bolton .
Title: Re: GUKPT - Manchester Post by: mulhuzz on January 31, 2012, 08:11:48 PM I would be really interested to hear from a GUKPT representative about sattelite payouts. On Thursday there were 4 seats and £745 for 5th. We were advised that 5th would be paid in "GUKPT tokens" and not cash! With a choice of poker series at the moment this is a really strong way to kill your sattelites and therefore number of runners at your first and following events. that seems bad. |