blonde poker forum

Level 1 of an stt. was I right to lay down the kings?


Seat 1: topsy (1742 in chips)
Seat 2: Adonis (1128 in chips)
Seat 3: Costy (1007 in chips)
Seat 4: _bint_ (775 in chips)
Seat 5: Sexylexy (685 in chips)
Seat 6: Lalarina (1173 in chips)
Seat 7: Wren002 (865 in chips)
Seat 8: Mershy (880 in chips)
Seat 9: Cannaboid (700 in chips)
Seat 10: Liverpaul (1045 in chips)
topsy: posts small blind 7
Adonis: posts big blind 15
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Lalarina [Kc Kd]
Costy: calls 15
_bint_: raises to 45
Sexylexy: folds
Lalarina: raises to 75
Wren002: folds
Mershy: folds
Cannaboid: raises to 105
Liverpaul: folds
topsy: folds
Adonis: folds
Costy: calls 90
_bint_: raises to 775 and is all-in
Lalarina: folds
Cannaboid: is all-in 595
Costy: folds
Returned uncalled bets 75 to _bint_
----- FLOP ----- [Th Ts 3s]
----- TURN ----- [Th Ts 3s][3d]
----- RIVER ----- [Th Ts 3s 3d][6c]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
_bint_: shows [Qs Qh] (Two Pairs, Queens and Tens, Six high)
Cannaboid: shows [Ks Ac] (Two Pairs, Tens and Threes, Ace high)
_bint_ collects 1602 from Main pot

OK I will go for the no Brainer here, Wrong Move, never do it, not ever, even if he shows you an ace.

YOU have to get your money in first with Kings. I would neve fold Kings pre-flop, NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER.

The odds on someone having aces when you have kings are crazy so in the long run it pays off.

Sorry to labour the point BUT NEVER LAY THEM DOWN PRE-FLOP.

ok anyone else want to use my high horse, I am off it now.

in my opinion...no way,  STT's dont last that long and premium hands rarely come along so i dont mind sticking em in here,

if i can see a flop with no  Ad all the better but u have an opportunity to KO 2 ppl and nearly treble up and are a huge fav to win the tourney from then,

perhaps the STT specialists like tank may differ

level 1 of an stt and lay down kk?  no way! 

no i dont think you were right. i would of called. i think if you take down this pot you can win it from here or at least made heads up. i like to get chips as early as possible in stt. you are only losing to 1 hand pre flop.

alot also depends on what the buy in is i suppose, what notes i have on players. if i had your kings i would have raised more not just the minimum. you would of probably found AK just flat calls to a raise then a big reraise either that or he pushes there and then.

sorry mate i think its call every time at that stage

the only time i would lay down KK preflop is on the bubble in a sat where 1st place is the same and the next postion

in agree, unless the person i was in against had alot less chips than me

Yeah, if there's 5 people left and 4 seats for a sattelite and I'm a comfortable 2nd and CL goes all in UTG. I might well lay them down, but never on a STT.

good stuff, cheers, that's exactly what I wanted to hear. I was pretty sure I'd screwed that one up and needed confirmation. not too sure what I was thinking really.

BTW Dan, the min raise was a misclick, I hit the raise button while aiming for the slider bar. oops

I'd say it depends on your knowledge of your opponents.

If they're a pretty tight bunch, then it's possible to fold, especially if you thin you can outplay them later on.

Kk has to be played the same was as AA . It is just so unlikley you are against AA. In a cash game it is also a -ev play to lay down kk . I would only ever laydown kk for the same reasons as AA ie its a sat and has a flat structure or for some reason I want to move u p the extra place on the ladder.

I geniuely think it sometimes can be possible to lay down kk preflop. I have never done it but come close a couple of times in cash games. You do get opponents who will only re re raise with aces and therefore if you have that kind of read on them then it is possible to let them go (in these days of poker tracker on the internet). In this particular situation there is no way laying down kk can be a good play tho.

All i can say is WOW

Just wondering what hand you would see good enough to double up with after mucking that one???

I have passed KK on more than 1 occasion, and i have always been shown AA!

I even passed AA pre flop once, it was my biggest tournament final and the money was pretty decent. I was SS and saw 4 all ins ahead of me, i fancied taking a shot at laddering up 3 spots if the CL won (given he was last in i fancied he had KK) he did have KK and i laddered up 3 spots!! I ended up 2nd in the comp!

that is fair enough but this was on level 1


did you not think that if you won this pot you might if won the comp and not come 2nd

yes and yes.

Wish you would play at Walsall more often :D

I have never laid KK preflop against a lone opponent. Nor would I ever. However, one thing that I slightly disagree with is the suggestion that the odds of being up against aces is so large.

If we assume that you are playing a full table thwen it really isn't that great despite what you may think.

You can not say that it is 221 * 221 because the hand is only relevant when you hold the KK.

Therefore the true odds are:

4 in 50 * 3 in 49 / 9 players = less than 22/1

Its very easy to be an expert with all the cards face up, but for me to even consider folding KK in a STT I would need the person UTG to flat call first and then react to a decent raise with an all in move, even then I would need to know the person involved before I would consider folding.

I would call here 100 times out of 100, but if the QQ guy had flat called before re-raising all in and I knew him to be a good, tight player, maybe I only call 99 times out of 100.