blonde poker forum

Okay were 7 handed we have 1 guy thats just terrible and playing crazy but i think tilt had some part to do with it, Hes already jammed 8c3c pre flop against me for €1470 after i 3bet AK from the button I called and he won. this is like 10 hands later...

Effective stacks are €2600 Im on the button with 7s8s villan is in the cuttoff (crazy fish) he opens to $30 i flat button small blind calls to. Flop Qs Kc 3s Sb checks Fish leads €55 I call Sb calls turn is 9s both check to me I bet on the bigger side €150, Sb folds Fish makes it €685 I call which I think is the only option in this spot, thoughts if u think otherwise? river is 2s Fish puts me in for like €1700 or something we? I Puked and wished I had a 10 min timebank

I fold.

Hard to gauge because we don't really know how the fish is playing in intricate spots. The check raise on the turn seems to be a giveaway hes got there with something like 10j unsuited or the made flush, or possibly 10j with one spade. The bet on the flop to inflate suggesting he fancied something on the flop and when two draws come in on the turn, for him to get sneaky and check raise i think he has something. If he was weak on the turn i think he bets out again. Something about the c/r that doesn't sit right.

When the river comes i gtfo of there, i ship turn just to let you know, as there is enough in there, you need to avoid another spade and he may call off with as little as two pair, but is probably stronger.

Don't listen to me though i am only a crap tourney player.

His turn sizing is quite large i dont think he'd have TJ. By the river he's only got two spades in his value range, it's possible he could have them. Ott he could have turned the nizzles or have Ks with the T/J/Q/9 that decided to go for the c/r get it in, but i don't think a fish would always shove this river with Ks he'd sometimes do something like bet 700. I don't think i'd hate a call tbh, the hands he's repping for value are small and he's already shown himself to be aggro. Plus if he's bluffing on the turn you'd assume a fish would always follow through on this river!

I definitely prefer call to jam on the turn just to keep his bluffs and semi bluffs in the pot, but given your description of him being a bit of a maniac fish then I wouldn't really be surprised to see him show up with the  Ts or Js in this spot. He pretty much has to be suicide bluffing for you to be good. I don't see anything to suggest that he's going to start turning decent one pair or two pair hands into bluffs so I think river is a fold.

read the first paragraph

50p

£150 definitely isn't on the big side vs the fish. You can pot- 1.3x pot and it would be fine.

pretty weird but i think as played i fold turn and as played i call river :D

I nearly just spaz called in a second, which I wish i did now as I then decided to tank fold and then he decided to show the AcQh Fuck my life...

I agree, with DM here. ^^^

I actually think he'll be spazzy bluffing a decent amount here due to how wide he's prolly gonna c/r the turn but I don't think there is any way a call can show you any profit whatsoever, he caught a good river, so pretty simple pass imo.

can't you just post hand history directly from HEM, makes it easier to read innit.

+1. or try set it out a bit less clusted, like

Flop (£xx.xx) Ts 8c 4s

I chk, fish bets £xx.xx, I call

and so on

Just reading this now i disagree with the others saying to flat call the turn as maybe my logic is flawed but my online play to manics compared to live are completely differant. Online is a short handed game an maniacs wt a click of the mouse do far more creative plays than live due to the pace an more players an agaisnt agressive players its naturally has to be fire for fire if you want to maximise ur profits, True the swings will be far greater but thats the way it is, You have made your hand on the turn so it may not be the nuts but agaisnt these type of players even top pair will be good a majority of the time so now you should be getting it in turn just in case he has  Big spade to be forced to put it in the rest an if he hits he  hits! And the way you descibe him he probaly would stack off wt a k ? I mostly play plo online an live an probaly my logic may be flawed but in plo agaisnt maniacs the mindset is still the same an ur ranges have to drop .

surely though when we jam the turn we take a huge chunk of airballs out? if he has a hand like a pair with the Ks or the Aspades, maybe even the Js vs this guy he'll call anyways but his non-spade airballs he's just going to fold surely? I can't work the stacks out but do we have room to click the turn back? that could be cool as he might peel some garbage or even jam with nothing. I guess the profit of a turn click-back is going to depend on the comparable frequencies between him jaming air/pair+big spades to the time times he just flats his big spades to the time he calls a turn jam or bigger raise with his big spade hands.

If he jams with air hardly ever and calls with his big spades most of the time then a turn raise would be bad (speshly if he calls of his big spade hands which I think he will) but given how he prolly has airballs/light semi-bluffs here a lot of the time I can't see too much merit for a raise without more reads we're not being told about.

I can see logic behind calling the river vs some poor players, a lot of the more spazzy-passive (stnd "fish" tendancies I think) ones would never have the Aspades or the Ks here because they would never semi-bluff that hand on the turn, they'd be completely polarised to a flush (could well be smaller than yours) or a random airball. Guys like this guy in my experience from what you've said (and proven by the fact he turns up with AQ here bluffing - or at least we think he's bluffing) are capable of bluffing with showdown hands/good draws, which makes the river an impossible call imo, he could even decide to "bluff" with a hand like Q*Js which would suck, a lot of times people like this guy will reach and river and just jam because he doesn't read the hand too good and his default style of play is to be aggressive. It's a terrible terrible bluff as your range has plenty of Aspades hands in (assuming you flat all your flushes ott which I think you should) and I'd say your turn range is wieghted pretty hevily towards flushes, Ks Ts, Ks, Js, Js, Ts, Ks,  Aspades Js,  Aspades Ts,  Aspades 8s (and so on) + some smaller combo's as well as some  Aspades Q*, Ks Q* hands nearly all of which call this river (Js Ts possibly the only one folding) the only naked set you could realistically have is 33 and you're raise the flop a high% and you could have JT no spades I guess. but basically a massive chunk of your turn range is calling this river jam which makes it a terrible bluff from him, just so happens we had the fragment of our range which needs to fold, doesn't make his play any better or our play any worse.

Just not meant to be this hand.

+1 Although I really don't think due to game flow and the way he's been playing clicking back the turn wouldn't be good, just as we want all his bluffs to continue on the river I just can't see if we jam or click it back he's ever continuing with out a hand that doesn't have us beat. I'm glad u think it's a fold though and so do most as I went to sleep with this one in my head all nite! :/ Kind of annoying as these €5-10  games rarely run that often.

just have a bigger spade next time.

Good Idea ;)

fuc me i got a headache just reading first line! you Win !

:) wiiiiii