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Title: Line Check Post by: Derbylad on February 29, 2012, 05:50:01 PM While playing late night 50/1 at DTD...
Stacks... Hero 270 villain... 130 Hero is dealt Ad Kc in MP £4 straddle is on... Hero raises to 17 Folds all the way round Villain (previous limper) Calls in UTG +1 Pot ( 39.50) Flop.... Kh Qd 7d Villain Donk leads 10 Hero raises to 27 Villain shoves.... Hero's though process, 4-5th hand villain has played so very little hand analysis, KQs and KQo potentially in his calling range... 77, QQ.... more likely to re-raise pre with QQ though. Seeing as i had Ad in my hand it was harder to put him on a flush draw although Kd Xd could be in his shoving range along with Td Jd Hero???? Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Rivertony on February 29, 2012, 06:07:39 PM I think your flop raise isn't enough, when he donked 10 I would make it around the 35-38 mark and call off his shove! As played still call off on flop! You have him crushed so often, favourite v his draws whilst getting 2/1 on your money and your only behind to KQ and 77! More info on villain?
Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Skippy on February 29, 2012, 06:10:33 PM What's with the pathetic raise on the flop?
Basically I've spent many hundreds of pounds researching that when fish 3 bet on the flop it's bad news, but I would raise bigger, call it off then insult his parentage when he's got kq. This may not be optimal, but it's what I'd do. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Bully87 on February 29, 2012, 06:13:04 PM I expect to see Jd Td alot.
I think villain donk leading is to try and see the next card on the cheap. Seeing as you have foiled villains plan with a raise then he/she is happy to get it in. Could be the nut fd of Jd Td or some other random FD, depends how you perceive villain. You've obviously raised flop for value against Kx, Qx, dd, dont really see how you can fold now. I dont fold, TPTK and backdoor diamonds is good enough for me. Ship it. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Bully87 on February 29, 2012, 06:14:49 PM What's with the pathetic raise on the flop? Basically I've spent many hundreds of pounds researching that when fish 3 bet on the flop it's bad news, but I would raise bigger, call it off then insult his parentage when he's got kq. This may not be optimal, but it's what I'd do. Villain donk lead... Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Derbylad on February 29, 2012, 06:21:12 PM Quote What's with the pathetic raise on the flop? Basically I've spent many hundreds of pounds researching that when fish 3 bet on the flop it's bad news, but I would raise bigger, call it off then insult his parentage when he's got kq. This may not be optimal, but it's what I'd do. Well the norm is that a villains donk leads to see a cheap draw but seeing as the guys only played 4 hands and he's not a reg im still unsure of his playing style, 35 probably would of been a better amount. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Skippy on February 29, 2012, 06:30:03 PM What's with the pathetic raise on the flop? Basically I've spent many hundreds of pounds researching that when fish 3 bet on the flop it's bad news, but I would raise bigger, call it off then insult his parentage when he's got kq. This may not be optimal, but it's what I'd do. Villain donk lead... Wat? Villain docks, we raise, he ships for the 3rd bet. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: zerofive on February 29, 2012, 06:36:11 PM If villain has only played 5 hands, is it possible we're not giving his hand enough credit when he limp calls then 3bomb ships the flop? Sounds way more like KQ or 77.
However if we're giving villain any credit as a player capable of thinking at all then we probably just have to close our eyes and call it off. Raise bigger on the flop of course. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Bully87 on February 29, 2012, 06:39:25 PM Quote What's with the pathetic raise on the flop? Basically I've spent many hundreds of pounds researching that when fish 3 bet on the flop it's bad news, but I would raise bigger, call it off then insult his parentage when he's got kq. This may not be optimal, but it's what I'd do. Well the norm is that a villains donk leads to see a cheap draw but seeing as the guys only played 4 hands and he's not a reg im still unsure of his playing style, 35 probably would of been a better amount. 4 hands out of how many? :S And your right Skippy, [fish] muddled between pre and post [/fish] Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Derbylad on February 29, 2012, 06:41:32 PM Quote If villain has only played 5 hands, is it possible we're not giving his hand enough credit when he limp calls then 3bomb ships the flop? Sounds way more like KQ or 77. However if we're giving villain any credit as a player capable of thinking at all then we probably just have to close our eyes and call it off. Raise bigger on the flop of course. This was my line and i folded. i thought it was far more likely he'd have been flush drawing if he'd have had the Ad which i knew he didn't so more likely to be KQ 77, and if he was flush drawing it'd be more likely to be with straight draw combos too e.g. Td Jd which i'm dominated post flop by. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Derbylad on February 29, 2012, 06:42:17 PM Quote 4 hands out of how many? :S As in this was the villains 4th-5th hand while being at the table Title: Re: Line Check Post by: pokerfan on February 29, 2012, 06:42:55 PM Flat flop.
Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Derbylad on February 29, 2012, 07:29:10 PM Flop edit.... Kh Qd 7d.
Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Junior Senior on February 29, 2012, 07:49:19 PM Did he show?
Title: Re: Line Check Post by: SuuPRlim on February 29, 2012, 08:46:37 PM folding once you've raised would be very bad. he doesnt have anywhere near enough stack to get you of this. Pay him and it's not close imo
+1 to flatting the flop, but raise/calling is ok as well. just don't raise fold. and don't raise the flop without a plan for how we respond to his re-raise, when you make a raise only things can happen, 1)he folds, which we don't need to plan for we just need to stack dem chips, 2) he calls, which again we don't need to massive a plan for because we get to see another card and his next move before make our next action and 3) he raises, which really is the only scenario we need to plan for, so always try to plan how you will respond to a re-raise and factor that into your reasons for raising in the purpose, making a raise because you have TPTK and then being bewildered when he 3bets is not where we wanna be. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: PutYouOnAK/AQ on March 01, 2012, 12:06:54 AM Fist Pump Call It OFF!!
Like to call flop rather than raise but snapping if i raise and he shoves. Unless he's a solid 50-1 player expect to be ahead nearly all of the time, 2pairs or sets tend to set the tarp and check. Would imagine you will see worse Kings loads here along with a bunch of flush draws. Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Mondeoman on March 01, 2012, 06:08:24 AM Like the raise size on the flop - no need to be any bigger. When he shoves I'd simultaneously call, flip my hand and say something like "gotcha/ul mate/no diamond"
Title: Re: Line Check Post by: muckthenuts on March 01, 2012, 06:25:24 AM and don't raise the flop without a plan for how we respond to his re-raise, when you make a raise only things can happen, 1)he folds, which we don't need to plan for we just need to stack dem chips, 2) he calls, which again we don't need to massive a plan for because we get to see another card and his next move before make our next action and 3) he raises, which really is the only scenario we need to plan for, so always try to plan how you will respond to a re-raise and factor that into your reasons for raising in the purpose, making a raise because you have TPTK and then being bewildered when he 3bets is not where we wanna be. All of this is the main thing to take from the thread Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Derbylad on March 01, 2012, 09:14:59 AM Quote Quote from: SuuPRlim on February 29, 2012, 08:46:37 PM and don't raise the flop without a plan for how we respond to his re-raise, when you make a raise only things can happen, 1)he folds, which we don't need to plan for we just need to stack dem chips, 2) he calls, which again we don't need to massive a plan for because we get to see another card and his next move before make our next action and 3) he raises, which really is the only scenario we need to plan for, so always try to plan how you will respond to a re-raise and factor that into your reasons for raising in the purpose, making a raise because you have TPTK and then being bewildered when he 3bets is not where we wanna be. All of this is the main thing to take from the thread +1 Title: Re: Line Check Post by: tight4better on March 01, 2012, 11:55:26 AM Didn't we speak about bet sizing in another thread? :P
Bigger raise size, and if you plan on raising this flop be prepared to call a 3-bet shove considering his stack size. If you're worried by KQ/77, especially seeing as you have such a small sample size. Flat flop, eval turn. You've got position and if by chance a diamond spikes the turn you still have NFD and TPTK. Honestly though, if villain takes this line and I've raised a donk bet on flop then I'm probably calling it off, look at KQ and hit runner runner diamond to scoop ;D Title: Re: Line Check Post by: Kilgore_Trout on March 02, 2012, 02:31:58 PM If we flat the flop, turn is a blank and villain leads out with a decent size bet presumably we plan to call?
So - wouldn't it be better to raise flop rather than giving a free card? What if the turn is a scare card - do we plan to fold if villain leads out? (given we have the nut flush draw ace) |