blonde poker forum

We have decided to reduce our rake on our cash games and change the limits and introduce a new blind to cater for all bankrolls as below, this is effective from tonight.

Games Available ...   Min - Max buy-in    Rake % Rake Cap
£0.50 / £1 NL              £25 - £100            10%     £5
£1 / £2                       £100 - £400           5%    £10
£1 / £3                       £300 No Max          5%    £10
£2 / £5                       £500 No Max          5%    £10
£5 / £10                     £1,000 - No Max      5%   £10
PLO £2 / £2 & DC          £50 - No Max        5%    £10
PLO £5 / £5                  £200 - No Max       5%   £10


per Simon Trumper

http://www.dusktilldawnpokerclub.com/cashgames.php

No more £200 max buy in 50p/£1 nlhe?

It's obv killing the 1/2 game.

1/2 probs aimed at people who buy in for 200 at .50/1

1/3 at the deeper 1/3 games

No £200 on .50/1 will kill that game off! No way will they get the usual 3-5 tables of per night.

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I was hoping to see a little tinkering to rake on split-pots in the DC game.

I know that I have hardly played at all lately but that would definitely encourage me to donate again.

£10 cap? My pocket hurts

Will say though, I do like the changes in the BI's/Limits etc. Think they will work really well. Reducing the 50/1 cap to 5 is pretty cool too

Hi Guys

These changes are not set in stone.

As always with any changes we will monitor them and react accordingly.

There is no doubt that making these changes will work out cost effective for the £0.50 £1 and £1 £2 games, we will monitor all other games with £5bb or higher and also talk to our regular players such as DC, if a £10 cap proves to be too high for these games we will reduce it.

Cheers

ACES

Its very hard to come up with a solution for not raking split pots. If you dont do it, the game makes no money.

The only thing you could possibly do is no rake in pots with only 2 players, but thats so difficult to moderate

Does this mean no .50/1 on deepstack weekends as used to be the case?

Must admit, the .50/1 with the £200 cap was perfect for my bankroll, and although the capped £1/2 game isn't too bad (if any actually run, previously the capped 1/2 would never be offered, and capped 1/2 games would become uncapped due to player-pressure), it's not going to suit a lot of players.

I am a customer, and probably shouldn't say this.......... but I don't see any sensible argument against raking split pots.

Why dont they just have session charges on the mix games?

I am not suggesting not raking split pots in hi-lo games and never ever suggested that, tinkering was the word I used.

I do believe that in a hi-lo game where the pot is split the rake should be halved or you can often end up with situation where two players split the pot and both lose money which is not sensible in my book.

Similarly, I can't see a good argument why the rake should be halved for a split pot.
Basically, you are saying that, overall, rake should be reduced for split-pot games, but it is probable (I don't know for definite) that the DC games already generate less rake per hour, than NLHE games, as each pot takes longer to play out.

As for session charges, I don't like them as they encourage people to consider leaving the game every 30 minutes, which can lead to games breaking much sooner than they otherwise would.

Dc is larger stakes and generally wilder, esp as equities run so close pre, so more money despite the slower dealing.

2/2 plo at my local rakes well over double what the deepstack .5/1 hold'em does an hour, even though they get less hands.

Think it would be better to compare 2/2 PLO to 1/2 Holdem.

PLO Hi is the simplest and quickest of the DC games. Games like Superstud, Padooki, and Omaha Hi Lo take much longer per hand.

were talking to regular DC players and most of them agreed that it may kill the game.

most of the pots r £100 pre and will cost mosrtly £10 every hand.

will discuss it  with simon and nick when go down dtd.

still love dtd

I think those days are gone - there will always be 50/1 options, regardless of it being a festival weekend. Since there's always a £15 comp on, there always has to be cash games suitable for them to play. The club are trying to get the £15 comp players playing cash. And the 50/1 players playing 1/2 etc etc. That's the idea.

There will be NO UNCAPPED 1/2 GAMES. That's the whole point, the capped/uncapped didn't work cos of the player pressure you mention. This way, the 1/2 will be a stepping stone - all the 50/1 players that sat with £200, can play 1/2 now, and not be put off by people sat with 1k. The people that sit like to play big games, can play the 1/3 and sit with whatever they like.

I really hope all three games will run alongside one another every day.

The rake might be a problem as I think the bigger games will suffer, as many many pots will be over £200 thus being raked £10 - it does seem a lot. However I like the 5% bit!

I know Rob and the club's heart is very much in the right place with these changes - so if it doesn't work or causes unexpected problems / effects - they will change it around again. 

How do i take the quickest dc game dealt, then presume all  games are dealt at that speed. Wp me....

I think introducing 1/3 with unlimited buyin is a tremendous idea, the 1/2 games ere ridiculous before they were so deep and 2/5 was just a little TOO big to run consistently, so 1/3 is perfect. Great work.

I do think tho, that the min-buyin's are too high, 100bb minimum is not that good for the game imo as a lot of players (more affluent recreational players) are very happy to gamble around for a bunch of money, but just aren't comfortable playing with deeper, and would much rather bullet off 1500 at 2/5 pulling up 250 a time than playing 100big blinds.

If you reduced the min-buyin on the 1/3 and 2/5 and 5/10 to 50 big blinds I think you would have it almost spot on.

To be fair, it's not the speed of dealing...... It's the amount of time it takes the players to act, and then the post hand inquest which holds up the next hand.
I've played in DC games where you do well to get much more than 10 hands per hour.

Yeah, my bad - hadn't noticed that the uncapped 1/2 was now the 1/3 game. That makes more sense.

I'd like to make a few points regarding Cash Games and some other day to day stuff;

1. Unless you grow new cash game players, a poker room, live or online eventually dies, with the smallest game being a £40- £200 buy-in + straddle, our data shows that new cash game players have dried up dramatically despite footfall being 35% up year on year, the increase in buy-in from £100 to £200 has increased the rake per hour for the club, happy days on the surface but look beneath it and we have raked the lower bankroll player too much as the pots have been bigger and have been hitting the £7 cap way too often, hence the change back to a £50-£1 game with limits of £25-£100 and a reduced cap of £5, I feel this make basic sense as a starter to put in place

2. The £1-£2 game at our club that has been running most frequently is £1-£2 Uncapped + Straddle, its basically a £2-£5 game with an average sit down of £1k+, I think £1-£3 Uncapped is a decent idea of a compromise between the bankrolls and hopefully we will see more £1-£2 capped games at the club going forward as players will be less fearful of playing against heavy artilary, and hopefully when they are confident, can then take a shot at the £1-£3

3. The 5% £10 Cap is pretty standard in the industry for £1-£2 + NL games, some casinos will offer 5% with £5 cap, but have no liquidity from tournaments because they don't invest hundreds of thousands £'s every year in their comps, so can afford run at these levels, but these games just die in the end as the losing players go broke and there is no liquidity to replace them. We sometimes get flack for how much value we give to our tourney players, especially for the Final Table Challenge, well, without them, there isn't enough liquidity for cash games for NL cash games at any level, no venue is the country except possibly the Vic does as many cash games as DTD over a month, and this is driven by our value added/high GTE comps that provide the players to continually feed the cash games

4. Omaha and DC is a hard one, hands per hour are very irratic caused by post mortems, decisions, and the nature of more cards and draws to consider. Personally, I would rather charge these with session fees, but this itself causes problems with games breaking, players losing big pots and then being asked for £7 quid, sometimes these games can rake less than 10 hands per hour, however, if they are regular, they can be profitable in the long run and they are fun games. We get some flack because we tend to open the NL games first, which rake double the hands per hour, if we find the £10 + 5% is raking a lot more than the 10% £7 cap, we will reduce it, its that simple. Not raking split pots would make the game not worth having, some casinos will offer to do this for reasons above

5. IMO Rake is better than session fees because it taxes the winner of the pot, I prefer to play in a raked game than a session fee game, at £2-£5 / £5-£10 and above sitting deep in a live cash game - say average £2k - £3k sit down, the rake is really immaterial to the size/number of the pots being won and lost, I guess it's more relevant online as you can play mullti tables, heads-up, millions of hands, but live, in the bigger live cash games, whether its £5 or £10 rake makes little difference to your win when the average pot is £500-£1000, whether you win or lose than month is going to come down to a few big pots, not the rake, I guess you could say the same about tipping, that can add up aswell over 10 years of playing live bigger stakes games, especially if you have attractive waitresses serving you!

6. Live poker players are so clueless when it comes to poker revenues and how much money gets made from them, poker is a "promotion" to get bums on seats in a Casino, I went down to the Vic a few weeks ago and the players were moaning about paying for drinks because they were playing cash games, a recent policy change at the Vic, its nearly always the professional grinders that moan aswell, it makes me laugh, the venue are providing their "place of work" and all they can do is bitch and moan, in reality, the Vic will be not making a penny out of their poker room, it only exists because a few high rollers come for a game of poker and then go on tilt and drop money on the casino tables, I keep hearing players are threatening to go to the Palm Beach to play unless they get a free drink!

7. We ditched the Cash Game Bonus because it was diverting cash game funds into tournaments, we want to come up with something else to replace it, in hindsight, we should have done this BEFORE we canned it, we just looked at the numbers last month and it cost £11,000 and cash game hours were the lowest for 2 years, so we cancelled it, same with the Final Table Challenge, we were running the £5K GTE promotion and felt we can't run 2 tourney promotions at the same time, again, we need to come up with something to replace it, as I said, tourney players are important to the ecology of cash games. We have been so snowed under with the CPP, UKIPT and Deepstacks, we havnt come up with any new ideas for a Cash Game Bonus and Final Table Challenge, if anyone has any ideas, please could you post them here. I know the Vic and Gutshot are doing Cash Game Races where they take 50p or £1 out of a pot etc but I kind of cringe when I see money taken out of pots or prizepool for a promo, maybe I shouldnt, nobody moans when the WPT take $25k out of the prizepool and annouce that the winner gets a seat to the $25k WPT Final, when is reality, its just taken out of the prizepool!

As with everything, we will try and make improvements and changes when necessary, live or online, we don't take 1p out of the poker community ;angel;, it all goes back into the mix, since we opened we are stuck ("invested") a further £1.5m back into the "business" in last 4 years to keep the DTD story going (not pleading poverty here but I think its a fair point to bring up when what we charge for our products is being discussed, as it's currently greater than what the service you are costs), we are in the business of giving value and getting loyalty, not trying to rip players off short term etc. We are so busy at the moment, it's hard to focus on day to day business, but we will have a good look at cash games and regular comps ASAP now we are open 7 days, I think we are doing a good job on weekends and big events and maybe taking our eye off the ball mon-thu and sun, which need some tweaking. Just seem to be busy all of the time, havn't even sorted CPP satelitte program out yet!

Any ideas welcome on here for new Cash Game Bonus OR Final Table Promotions for our locals , it would be nice to think of linking the Final Table Challenge to the CPP but that's £6k so maybe not possible, either way, we hope to come up with new promos for our regular players after the UKIPT.

Apologies for the lengthy post, just so fkn busy at moment, we try and do promos every few months as things get tired, so if someone can come up with one for our cash game players and evening tourney regs that doesnt bankcrupt the club, much appreciated.

Cheers Rob

Good post.^

I really like the way it works in Vegas where you pay per half hour and you can do those "time pots" where the winner of the first pot over $X pays the time for everyone.


DTD well known for hiring non-attractive waitresses....

Oh no wait, they are all incred and it costs us all a fortune!

I'm pretty certain the Vic makes >£0 from its poker room.

Rob do you guys have any ideas at all for the cash bonus? Or just looking for inspiration?

If you have guidelines for us to stick too then I'm sure us blondes could come up with something :)

In the meantime, guess I'm stepping up to 1/2 capped :o

I definitely don't think unlimited buyin is any good, hate it myself.

When I do sit down at a cash table, I always sit with a buyin that is "in the middle" or perhaps analyse other stacks, etc.

Glad to see 1 2 uncapped gone, exactly why i never took a shot at 1 2 cos of ridic stacks and the embarrassment of sittin with 100 to 200bbs. More game choice for me when i trek down again
Wp wp Rob

This is the funniest part of the game. Someone (usually Wadey in DTD) saying " you are the fecking worst dealer ever. How the hell did I not get there when I've got this with this and this" while dramatically throwing his cards slam down face up onto the table. Then tells the other player usually Bash, Faisel or Frankie " you're the luckiest player I've ever met. If I had half your luck I'd be a millionaire "

Rinse and repeat 10 times over the space of quite a few hours, and that's the DC game at DTD.  I'm sure the arguing is the reason they all play it.  Mustn't get enough grief at home from the missus.

True true.

How is it embarrassing for a grinder to sit 100-200bb deep? That's so standard, except that embarrassment even crossed your mind :p

Re: 100bb min on the £1/3. Seems fine. Won't find a lot of small grinders just "taking a shot" with a 60bb stack, blinding out etc. You basically get grinders and gamblers at these stakes, neither of which will want to sit with sub £300 in a £1/3 game. The £1/2 game has a 50bb min, which is perfect for small grinders and those taking a shot.

Re: split pot rake. Agree that you have to rake split pots in hi-lo games, as there will literally be £0 revenue otherwise. Raking split pots in NLHE games is cringeworthy though, any chance of this being changed?

Also are you removing the straddle from the £.5/1 games? I think this is what killed it more than anything.

People love to argue in the mixed games I think it's due to the relentless splitting of the pot they do, tbh for the most part those DC games are so nitty I'm surprised anyone beats the rake

As a dealer I will obviously keep the vast majority of my opinions on these changes to myself, and as per our recent staff meeting we are restricted as to what we can and can't say on here so I shall mostly be lurking, but as a player I will say I think that these changes are a step in the right direction and I am glad that it was agreed that £7 was rather hefty in the lowest stakes games.

bollox

Not sure whether I shud answer the bollox comment, but I will.  Every £1 of rake and reg fees that the Vic take is subject to 50% gaming tax since the new laws  put in force, it's impossible for them to be making any money out of poker players except indirectly if a poker player loses a wedge on their gaming tables. I'm not in the habit of defending the big casino groups but this tax is crippling for them, which is why its pretty unfair that the unlicensed venues are not subject to these taxes, well, actually the taxes are more unfair.

I don't have a clue who you but if its okay for you to type bollox and quote me, its okay for me to say that your opinion/views/knoweledge is complete and utter crap and you don't have a clue about this subject. I will put my money where my mouth is, I bet you 5k that the Vic poker revenues do not cover their costs, are you willing to do that?

(http://blastmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/facepalm.jpg)

:)

Stop lurking Cos.

Seriousy, Live Poker is a just promotion to get players onto casino and online poker, if you just play live poker you are on a complete free roll from DTD, Genting, Grovesnor, all of us. When I went down to the Vic a couple of weeks ago and heard some of the pro grinder players moaning about the rake, the session fees, £1 for a cup of coffee, and generally behaving like they were doing the casino a favour by playing there, it annoyed me because players don't really know how good they have it on the live poker circuit at the moment, god knows how much Genting are putting into live poker, the UK has never been better for live poker players, especially the value hunters.

Sorry, no can do. I <3 blonde too much to not read it.

As it goes, I didn't like Dakky's comment either. It was rude and with no justification.

I thought my picture was pretty perfect though.

Hypothetical prop Cos. How much money would it take for you not to post on blonde for 3 months?

You thinking we should start a collection George?

If I'm in England, 2k. If I'm here in Thailand prob 1.5k.

Stole my joke :P

Reckon you'd buy out before the time was up

nah. think i'd find it annoying but wouldnt buy out for sure.

What about to not look at all for 3 months? (Obv this bet would be based on trust)

I'd find that really hard. Would defo want somewhere in the region of 4k. Pretty sure mods can just ban my ip etc but if I made such a bet, I wouldn't look anyway.

it's amazing the lengths some people will go to just to make sure cos doesn't find out the dates for the next blonde bash

Dates of next Blonde Bash are.........very soon to be announced :)

Fingers crossed it falls on my rest days.

You will be there Mo.

Thought these would be good changes but it's been pretty bad for us so far.

I've just been in a 1/2 capped game where I lost 5x £400 bullets, everyone was stacked up (thanks to me ;)) and I could only reload for £400. It was so frustrating. Would've been fine if there'd been a 1/3 game running that had no cap but there wasn't. Tried to get one going but no-one was really interested.

I've ended up leaving a good 3/4 hours earlier than I otherwise would've done, because I'm never going to get my money back with a £400 cap. I think you should be able to reload to the biggest stack, or maybe half the biggest stack. That would help the issue, I know they do that in some cardrooms.

I don't see how you can't get your money back in 3 or 4 hours?
Good luck at the EPT

wow, not sure wtf is happening, but....

+1. I agree with you Jason.

fuck

yeah, it's scary isn't it

surely you're more likely to win your money back if you stay and play than if you just get up and go home 4 hours early

If everyone is deep and you are the 'shortstack' @ 200bb then surely its gonna be fairly easy to get it in for a double up.  Especially if you have done your balls and people think that you are gonna be tilting out of your brains.

GL it Italy tho :)

But if you are tilting out of your brains, surely it is best to get up and leave.  Judging by the original post, that seems likely?  :P

Good read!

I mean I know what u mean and it does feel like that I guess, but how much you win/lose in a single night is totally irrelevant.

Surely if you are tilting your brains off, then going home is a better idea than re-loading for 500big blinds

and Stato nails it :)

I was only tilted by the buyin cap!

tbf no point in posting this though as:

a) Alex already knows it
b) I know it but would still likely feel the same

We were talking about this last night. When your in the situation you always feel like you need to get the money back straight away, its not til the next day, you get back to the 'one long session' frame of thinking.

Im guilty of the same thing, if i get stacked, or am in a hole, i always will have enough infront of me to get out of it with a double up.

Anyway, RE: the new cash game set up;

I think a move like this is the only way to develop the player pool at any stakes bigger than 50.1.

Since the new 1/2 has started there has defiantly been an influx of new players to the game so its working and there is now a bridge between the different levels of game. The problem now is there will very rarely be enough players for a 1/3 because the ones who would have played before will now play the 1/2, so its probably going to end up being capped all week before 2/5 at the weekend.

Hopefully we can twist your arm to get the rake 5% capped at £7, or even back to 10% at £7 from 1/3 plus.

These games, especially the 2/5 are gonna hit the cap in most hands and its gonna begin to sting, effectively taking a stack off the table every couple of hours.

Maybe rob could just guarantee each pot at £5k or something. ;djinn;

Anyway, as always, good to see the club trying new things all the time to keep things fresh!

Mitch., the 5% with a £10 cap raked lower than 10% at £7. Speak with Simon. The rake on all games was much lower this week, at EVERY table level. Its a myth that the rake hits £10 every pot, our objective was to decrease the rake on all games, your £2-£5 VIP game on Friday night raked £117 per hour average, you lot spent £40 per hour on food and drink, the session charge at the Vic for that game is £7 per half an hour, so its almost identical to the rake. It makes if very hard to do any type of promotions at these new rake levels when you take out the cost of supervising the cash game area and the cost of dealers, the Vic charge for food and drink now and there only promotion is taking 50p out of every pot and its totally player financing. What do you suggest I do, I'm always open to suggestions, close the club being one of them! Players perception of cash games outside of London is that they effectively want to play them for break even costs, 5% with a £5 cap is what local casinos will do to get a game going a few punters in the door, as 99% of their revenue is no poker. We are never going to have as many games as the Vic and they give nothing away? I'm close to getting fed up of the local business here, I could make a profit just closing opening Friday - Sunday and focussing on major events, which we are good at.

I agree that the new method is going to benefit the midweek games as they are, no doubt, as the 5% benefits smaller games.

The 2/5 game this week was deffo on the nitty side, but when terry, the doncaster lot, keith etc are playing and straddling i would think it would be raking much bigger and hitting the cap 95% of hands.

Theres a few ideas that players have come up with but we will have that chat after the UKIPT and see what you think will work for both parties...

A popular idea is the no/reduced rake between 8pm-9pm and 3am-4am thing but dont know if thats viable for you? Would deffo help get games started earlier and running longer imo.

Cool, I am open to any suggestions that players have, but if the perception with players is that 5% with a £10 cap is more expensive than 10% with a £7 cap, then i'm not going to get any uplift from the changes, if fact, if players think its costs more, then we will get less! The £1-£2 capped raked £68 per hour last week and Alex's is moaning about losing, imagine how I feel!!!!!!!

LOL, imagine having to sit next to him every night....

The £68 / £117 per hour that the cash games raked. Do you get taxed on that as well or is your tax a fixed amount per table? It doesn't sound much to run a table at all.

I quite like Mitch's suggestion of a rake free hour to get the games going. Would it really make that much difference though? Will people make the effort to get there early just to save themselves their share of an hour's rake?

Have you ever thought of maybe capping the rake to an average per hour?

Say you came up with a figure of £120 per hour cap for the 1/2 game.

Every hour the box gets emptied. If there's more than £120 in it the overlay gets rolled over for the next hour. At the end of the night if there's an overlay it all goes in to a freeroll turnover hand for everyone still at the table. Could be a good way of keeping people at the table 'til the end whilst guaranteeing yourself an average per hour that you're happy with.

Also by doing this the players get to see exactly what they're paying so might stop moaning about how much it's costing them to play.

Obviously it doesn't affect me either way because if I play it's not 'til late and I'm too drunk to care about rake anyway :D

Yup, deductions are gaming tax, dealers costs, chip runner costs, free drinks, valet costs, cash game supervisors, breaks, labour to count rake, food for VIP £500+ games, all out of that, never mind staying open for the 2 cash game tables when no one else is in the building. It's just not worth it apart from Friday - Sunday when we have weekend event, we were giving an average of £11k back a month for Cash Game Bonus and players still moaned and groaned about the rake whilst some were spending as much time in the toilet and fag breaks to get the hours in and receive the bonuses.

Whatever the cap is players moan, whatever the % is they moan, if they don't win every night - players moan, session fees they will moan because games will break and players will try and avoid them. We do promos for tourney players to provide cash game liquidity and the cash game players moan that we do too much for tourney players. In fact, the players that don't moan one bit are the non locals who wish there was a DTD in their town, so they appreciate what we do!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey, its poker players, it's the industry, I'm used to it but something has to give in the UK, as no legal card room can over their costs, we are lucky, we have some great events that basically fund the club for the local live players, so we can just about break even, we also get online revenues to offset club costs, okay our software is not great, but we have more non local players playing online with us that our locals, which is bizarre, maybe its cause they come to the club and don't get enuf time. Either way, I will keep on trying to reduce prices to keep everybody happy but there is a limit.

Some of our locals are real good friends of mine and support us online, in the club and spreading the word about DTD, but really, some of them think we depend on them to survive, when in reality, we dont, Dusk Till Dawn depends on our events and online revenues, we could shut Mon-Thu and not even blink an eye lid profit wise, of course, we may lose some loyalty and community feeling through, and there is a cost to that. I am trying the 7 day thing and I will give it my best shot, but this will be the last time if its not supported.

I wasn't complaining about the rake - I'm not too fussed about it. It's better for the smaller games, but worse for the bigger games. Since the bigger games happen maybe once a week, and the smaller ones happen every day - I think on balance it could prove better for me.

I was having a moan about the cap last night, at the end of a tilty session, we all like to have a wee moan about something. Apologies.

The new limits are great overall for the cash game community, it's had an excellent impact already. Of course there's always going to be a downside, but that's just life.

I just think session fee's are the best thing personally.

Well no, actually I think the best thing is to just not give a fuck about the rake, in my eyes, If I win £2,000 of an evening then I don't really care that I actually won £2,150 but gave Rob £150.
If I lose £2,000 I am way more bothered about how the fuck mitch rivered that fucking straight and wondering why the hell i'm playing poker and what the fuck im doing with my life rather than despairing over the fact that the beneficiary of my terrible career choice has had to fork £150 over to Rob's lot. Next time I go in i'm sure they'll flick me a britvic55 apple I'll be all for making the rake higher.

"It's better for the smaller games, but worse for the bigger games".

Thats my points - BUT IT'S NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A + B = F

Not having a go at you Alex, the DC and higher NL all think the same thing, but they are WRONG. 5% with £10 is lower than 10% with £7 cap. What language should I translate this into?!

Don't get over-sensitized to a few comments from a minority of players.
The vast majority of cash players are more than happy to play at DTD, and wouldn't even notice, never mind care, about the specifics of rake etc.....
TBH, I've heard very few murmurrings since you changed the rake, aside from positive views from people regarding the reduction in £0.50 / £1 rake.

OK!

I think Mitch was saying that this Friday nights 2/5 wasn't that big, and that the normal ones we get going are MUCH bigger and perhaps will rake more with this system. Maybe over UKIPT week we'll get some figures to compare.

Even so, I don't mind as games that size are pretty infrequent, even if they were to rake more, I wouldn't mind at all (so long as there was a cash game bonus scheme ;whistle; )