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Poker Forums => The Rail => Topic started by: tikay on March 20, 2012, 08:16:13 AM



Title: Staking Questions
Post by: tikay on March 20, 2012, 08:16:13 AM

A newbie "pokercade" - Posted this question elsewhere on blonde, & needs some help.


Ok can someone please help me i am obviously being a clown i am trying to ask a few questions in the staking forum but it wont let me post or send pms but it has let me post here what am i doing wrong.

My main question is when you stake someone or make them your horse do u let them play on your account and monitor there game or do you give them money to play on there own account.

ty anyone


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: tikay on March 20, 2012, 08:25:20 AM

As to Question 1.....

New Members cannot send or receive PM's until they have 10 Posts or more. It's to prevent spammers having a party before we are able to ban them.

For staking threads, Members must have a minimum of 300 Posts to Post on the Staking board. This is an imperfect solution to a difficult problem, to try to prevent scams & grims. It works reasonably well, except that some newbies just try to reach the 300 mark by posting lots of one-word Posts, which is very transparent, soon gets sussed, & means they damage their chances of beding staked, as everyone soon susses it.

I will leave Question 2 to those better placed to answer, but my advice if staking, or being staked, is never EVER do it unless you know & trust the other party very well. Most of us here have had our fingers burnt at some stage when ignoring this common-sense rule. And remember that staking, or being staked, quite often ends up with damaged relationships, or bust ups, because one or both parties reneges on the deal, due to the Terms & Conditions not being agreed properly in advance.

Good luck to you.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: Simon Galloway on March 20, 2012, 09:45:44 AM
The backer agrees terms with the horse (hitherto known as "the agreement" or "the contract") - a couple of pages listing what will/won't happen, what obligation each person has and what happens if things go sour.

EZ game ~ what could ever go wrong?

I've agreed many different terms in my time, but one thing I have never done and would strongly recommend no-one in their right mind ever does, is to stake someone by giving them access to your account.  Not smart for a multitude of reasons.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pleno1 on March 20, 2012, 09:49:00 AM
http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=56992.255


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: SuuPRlim on March 20, 2012, 01:05:00 PM
as far as im aware, the most stnd is for the horse to play on his OWN accounts (speshly with Pokerstars who take using an account that isn't yours very seriously) and you send the money but have access to the account all the time, so you can check the history and your money whenever you want.

It's certainly the "cleanest" method anyways


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pokercade on March 20, 2012, 05:31:53 PM
Hi first of all thanks Tikay for starting this thread was slightly drunk last night and could not figure it out.

The thing i was wondering about the staking idea is does the person log into your account and review how you played and what levels etcetra.

The reason i am thinking about this idea is i think i have zero bankroll management basically i win at poker but once im up i either bet on horses roulette casino anything really just out of boredom.

I would like basically someone that you have to report to so that i would not be wasting the money and instead i would like to see what sort of bankroll i could accrue.

I do not know if this would be the best way to go about this or what im looking for any advice would be appreciated.



Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: tikay on March 20, 2012, 06:04:26 PM
Hi first of all thanks Tikay for starting this thread was slightly drunk last night and could not figure it out.

The thing i was wondering about the staking idea is does the person log into your account and review how you played and what levels etcetra.

The reason i am thinking about this idea is i think i have zero bankroll management basically i win at poker but once im up i either bet on horses roulette casino anything really just out of boredom.

I would like basically someone that you have to report to so that i would not be wasting the money and instead i would like to see what sort of bankroll i could accrue.

I do not know if this would be the best way to go about this or what im looking for any advice would be appreciated.



Well others are better placed to answer than I, but you should be OK now.

I should warn you that you need a certain level of competenence before (almost) anyone will stake you, & you will first need, by fact or deed, to establish that.

Good luck you.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: JK on March 20, 2012, 06:09:58 PM
Staking is about getting your name out there, having a few binks etc and proving yourself.

As for reviews etc, all good backers will ask you to use a tracking programme (Holdem Manager etc) and do review sessions with these hands. Its easy to find leaks etc using HEM if you know what your looking at.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pokercade on March 20, 2012, 06:13:38 PM
Yes Tikay that is one of my other questions i was going to ask would a staker review your previous play i dont use any tracking software but i would be on sharkscope and the other free sites.

I would quite like the idea of someone reviewing it as i would like to know if i am any good or not all i know is i deposit small and my sportsbetting and roulette spins are often more than my months earnings which i give to the missus.

I would never dream of depositing a grand then playing roulette with it but when i win at poker i wouldnt think twice about it.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: tikay on March 20, 2012, 06:23:41 PM
Yes Tikay that is one of my other questions i was going to ask would a staker review your previous play i dont use any tracking software but i would be on sharkscope and the other free sites.

I would quite like the idea of someone reviewing it as i would like to know if i am any good or not all i know is i deposit small and my sportsbetting and roulette spins are often more than my months earnings which i give to the missus.

I would never dream of depositing a grand then playing roulette with it but when i win at poker i wouldnt think twice about it.

I can't really help beyond what I have already said & done, it's not something I know much about, & I've certainly never done it, either as buyer or seller, (we are talking serial staking someone Online) but the lads will look after you now.

I'm assuming you understand that the staker takes a tidy lump of any profits the stakee makes. I'm greedy, I like to keep all my losses for myself.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pokercade on March 20, 2012, 06:41:33 PM
Yes i understand that the backer would be taking a cut that only fair i would be trying this to get some disipline.

Hopefully a backer will post with some details of how it all works like how long you would stay partners and what input they give.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: vegaslover on March 20, 2012, 06:52:54 PM
People usually ask for Holdem manager/poker tracker stats as they can see how you actually play hands in different situations.
Sharkscope etc show end resluts but not how you got there i.e just running good rather than playing well.

In most cases you also need to prove your trustworthyness. Been far too many episodes of grimming


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: Simon Galloway on March 20, 2012, 07:23:22 PM
Post your screen names and I will give you an idea of what you can expect backers to say.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pokercade on March 21, 2012, 11:42:23 AM
Thanks simon that would give me a rough idea i play on pokerstars under pokercade and used to play ladbrokes under dannys111.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: Simon Galloway on March 21, 2012, 12:05:22 PM
Going on your stars results:

Overall:  Not really enough volume (and therefore history) to get a backer excited.  But you do play Omaha tournys, which are massively beatable at the low stakes, and thus quite attractive to backers.  Your results when filtered indicate that you should concentrate on Omaha, and keep the ABI a little smaller for now.

Questions you are likely to be asked:

1) Why the gap from August to March?
2) What games do you want to play and how much stake $ do you need? (hint: see above!)
3) What are you looking to achieve from the stake? (Trying not to knock it in @ table games is honest, but not always the best answer, but there is the world of difference between someone wanting a small stake to win some pin money each week and someone wanting to play $5 Omaha tournys as a sole source of income)
4) References?
5) Where do you see things going in 3months time?
6) Do you want coaching with this?  What sort of volume are you looking to play? (this is the bit where you thrash out if you are going to play a set number of tournys, a set period, or just ongoing until someone calls time)

Assuming you have decent answers to all of the above, ideally a few HH's to show upon request, and the backer is happy to overlook the small volume to date, it is quite possible you would pick up a 50/50 deal with MU from a backer.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pokercade on March 21, 2012, 01:38:26 PM
Hey thanks for that Simon

Yes i stopped playing hold em online a while ago as i played omaha / hilo more often i do not have massive volume cause i only play part time as have to work and sort the family out. Also what is ABI and why do i want to keep it low.

I will try answer ure other questions.

(1) I self excluded myself from all my account as i wanted to prepare for the birth of my second child.
(2) I would be wanting to play omaha hi/lo and omaha cash and tourneys i have no idea how much stake i would need.
(3) From the stake i would be looking to get some bankroll management experience and basically someone to report to i do not intend this to be a source of income as i work and that is what i would live on.
(4) I would have zero references.
(5) In three months time i would hope there would be a nice bankroll for me to play poker and possibly playing at good level.
(6) This is the bit that i would think would dissapoint a backer i work monday to friday and with a 2 1/2 and a new born i would not be wanting to put in massive volume basically a few hours an evening then some time at weekends. I would be quite happy to go along with most thing a backer wished to be honest.

I am quite happy for backers to look at any hand historys they wished.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: AndrewT on March 21, 2012, 01:47:01 PM
ABI = Average Buy In.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: Simon Galloway on March 21, 2012, 02:19:30 PM
OK round 2:

1) drop the self-excluded phrase (imo) sounds like problem gambling terminology.  Paternity is perfectly noble.
2) If you are wanting to play cash, be expected to be asked to show tracking software results to support it.  If you don't have this, drop the cash element from the stake request.
3) This isn't an uncommon reason for wanting a stake, no probs there.  Plenty others have poor BRM or otherwise just need the structure that a stake gives that they are unable to keep in place for themselves.
4) Really?  Do you know any poker players IRL?  Local casino?  Forum member with high visibility?  No refs will usually be a problem.
5)  Usually ambition is a bad thing here!  "I want to play all the majors" is usually just someone that can't wait to play high enough to go broke (with someone else's money)  Someone that jsut wants to make a couple of hundred each week with minimal risk to help with bills etc may lack ambition, but is a backer's dream.
6)  This is where honesty really is the best policy.  If you talk yourself into some ultra-high volume agreement with a large stake and then get nowhere near it,it will unsurprisingly not please the backer.  If however you are realistic about playing low volume (and therefore only need a low stake) then I don't see a problem at all.  Playing extra volume (more than you want to) in a mis-guided attempt to please a backer does not usually end well - for anyone involved.

THE ABI bit, bit difficult to make solid suggestions based on limited sample size, but there is a suggestion that just playing <$5R or <$20 F.O. would be a good way to get back into it - you can always shot-take a bit higher in good weeks.  Imagine the following 2 requests:

a) "errr... dunno really... just want some money wiv to gamble innit.  play cash, tournys, whatever I fancy."
b) "I'd like a $500 stake to play PLO(8) mtts on Stars.  Screen name is Pokercade.  I have a full time job, so I don't rely on poker for income, but nor can I play high volume.  I would commit to playing 40+ mtts per week with a limit of $5R or $20F.O."

Bit extreme, but I think you can see that route b) is more likely to get somewhere.  At that point, the final negotiation would be the terms.  50/50 profit share (including fpps/stellars/other bonuses) after makeup would be standard.  Depending how badly you want the stake and/or how badly the backer wants to back you, you may be able to negotiate in a certain area if you so desire.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pokercade on March 21, 2012, 04:34:50 PM
Ok ty again firstly.
In reply

(1) I used the self exclude as just seemed logical way to take a 6 month break.
(2) I have never used tracker software before but would not be adverse to using it if thats what a backer wanted.
(3) This is correct i dont have to have bankroll management when i use my own cash as i have nobody to report to and the money i do use is not needed for bills etc.
(4) I am new to this forum so know no one here i have posted on and off on another forum but have never met anyone so would not ask them to vouch for me i have only played at my local casino maybe 5 times in a live tourney so would not know anyone there to vouch (i did win 2 of these tourneys) i dont know if g casinos track info.

If you google my user name it does come up with who i am and what town i stay in and i doubt it would take no more than asking 10 poeple in the town to find me.

(5) As i said i dont have any set ideas as to what i want from any deal but i am just wondering if it would help me with BRM.
(6) I am being up front in no way am i expecting or wanting this to be any high volume deal playing for a living or that i work so but extra money would be a bonus obviosly.

(a) and (b) I may have come across a bit vague in what i am wanting out of this as i am not really sure i figured backers would know and possibly guide me as to what is usual and what is not or is there are any people who have been staked could possibly say how it works and what they get out of it.


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: Simon Galloway on March 21, 2012, 05:57:22 PM
I've given you a good flavour of what a backer would be looking to do ~ and under what terms.  If you don't have evidence of your cash play, forget about it, no-one will touch you for a cash stake, grnteed.  The tournys you might be able to work something, but the reference bit would be a stumbling block for many.

By far the best idea would be to play small buyin PLO and PLO8 mtts on your own coin, set yourself limits/targets and get into the habit of treating it seriously.  If you still have BRM issues and just can't help yourself degening the profits, at least by that time you will have a solid graph with greater volume for the games you want to be staked in?


Title: Re: Staking Questions
Post by: pokercade on March 21, 2012, 06:52:53 PM
Simon i did think having no references would be a hurdle but not much i can really do about that. You have been very helpfull and it is much appreciated hopefully a few others will post or pass me some more wisdom.