blonde poker forum

New dealer at work. Has made a few (minor) mistakes and been under quite a bit of pressure from some old reg types. On the final table and TD in attendance to watch/teach.

Ultra short stack shoves for tourney life, called. On their backs.

TD is not paying attention and talking to a railer.

Dealer deals flop.

Players point out he hasn't burnt a card.

Dealer/TD cannot say which card would have been first out - although players more or less unanimously say which one it is...

What should happen?

Put the flop back in the pack, reshuffle

You might have to explain why it wasn't possible to determine which card came out first.

If all players agree on a card, then that's the burn card. Up to players to protect the game as well as TD etc.

It doesn't matter if the players all agree. If the dealer isn't sure the TD has to order a reshuffle

god no

we now have the wrong turn and river

the turn and river haven't been dealt yet.   

I am pretty sure the redeal is correct here

you don't have the right flop so want to correct it by making flop, turn and river incorrect? that makes no sense. surely we keep the bits that we know are correct

IF you want to reshuffle the flop into the deck then you need to take out the turn, river and their burn cards first

but that's a horrible way to deal with it imo

either treat it as a 4 card flop and shuffle the flop with the top card in the deck and pick one of the four to be the burn

or shuffle the 3 cards from the flop, pick one to be the burn and make a new flop from the other 2 and the top card in the deck (as this is the only card we know for sure should be part of the flop)

or ideally just say 'who cares' and keep the flop, it really doesn't matter too much. burn twice for the turn to keep turn and river correct

I'd say this is fine though don't understand why he'd choose to expose the 4th card, completely pointless though it makes no difference when there's no action to come

not often, no. If there is a mistake on flop involving missing burn cards, two burn cards etc, often the flop is redealt. What the turn and river would have been is immaterial

Not sure if I'm missing something. How do you not see which card comes out first?! It's the card you peel over first... IE peel one, peel two, peel three. Forgot to burn, thus peel one becomes burn, you peel another, the rest is straightforward. If you spread flop (would not expect this from a dealer so inexperienced he forgets to burn) then it's card number 3. If you scoop flop then it's card number 2. Never EVER reshuffle here. Reshuffles should only take place when there is further betting or in rare and extreme scenarios (eg dropped entire deck.) In this instance it really can't be hard to work out the correct burn card and to complete the board.

What would be a standard ruling for a duplicate card ?

e.g all in pot hu board runs out  Ahrt xxx  Ahrt

fouled deck, all bets returned normally

Unless at Grosvenor where everyone is at same disadvantage (even tho AA v set 6's - further A drawn) hand stands!

... is this a level?

gatso: not buying this "correct" turn and river stuff. I never have.

The turn and river are going to be 2 random cards from the deck.

If we reshuffle the turn and river are still going to be 2 random cards from the deck.

So the same.

I'm not going to undermine our TDs because they are all brilliant. What I will say is that the leftmost card on the flop would have been the burn card if the dealer had done it right initially because we will always deal the flop one card at a time left to right as standard DTD policy. They have been phasing out 3 card flops even though IMO it looks better and is quicker. But the protection of players against mechaniching the deck is more important than speed and any dealer flair.

Dear god NO.  Hate this wrong turn, river malarkey.  2 random cards which aren't in play yet, means they are still random.

If what Mr Quandry said above is being adhered to, which i assume it was, then where is the issue? The 1st 'flop' card becomes the burn card, the 4th card completes the flop, turn and river as per.

the 3 cards on our incorrect flop are also 3 random cards so why do we need to change them?

as I said, my favoured option is to just keep this flop

I also am failing to see where the problem could come from. Can someone explain how the flop was dealt because as Mr Quandary said above, we are all trained to deal the flop one card at a time. Indeed, I had a similar situation on a cash table with Mr Zerofive when I dealt the flop without burning but just turned the first exposed card into the burn and added a card on the end to complete it.

And as for dealing "true" turn and river cards, I thought that only applied when there is betting on further rounds, but I could be wrong.

I'm guessing he dealt 3 face down, flipped them over, then spread them, which would make the burn card the one on the right. Possibly. That's the only other way I've ever seen it done, but I've seen it like that regularly in DTD with blow-in dealers.

So much this. Tilts me pretty hard when they put out the 'correct' turn/river.... it's random... totally random, no-one knows if reshuffling will make the turn/river better for either player.

Not really sure how the dealer can't know which card came first, surely dealers deal the same way every time, so the same card will always be the first one.

As I mentioned on another thread, the stardard of dealers is definately getting worse, mistakes like this more common.... stuff like this is just embarrassing.

I just realised OP is not talking about DTD lol

I blame you for me thinking it was too :).

I heard of this once before.  One table had 53 cards somehow, other table had 51.  Tournament was cancelled and restarted.