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Title: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pinchop73 on April 21, 2012, 11:20:14 PM PokerStars Hand #79239422176: Tournament #569010726, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2012/04/21 23:06:44 WET [2012/04/21 18:06:44 ET]
Table '569010726 7' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: Revengaa (7257 in chips) Seat 3: Amirazadi76 (5675 in chips) Seat 4: 14Hopper (7475 in chips) Seat 5: Aleksvik (7010 in chips) Seat 6: Ultraballs18 (5199 in chips) Seat 7: bamboocha88 (2620 in chips) Seat 8: aces_up4108 (7135 in chips) Seat 9: softcored (7395 in chips) Aleksvik: posts small blind 15 Ultraballs18: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ultraballs18 [Ac Kc] bamboocha88: folds aces_up4108: folds softcored: folds Revengaa: raises 33 to 63 Amirazadi76: folds 14Hopper: folds Aleksvik: folds Ultraballs18: raises 137 to 200 Revengaa: calls 137 *** FLOP *** [Ah 4d Ks] Ultraballs18: checks Revengaa: bets 290 Ultraballs18: raises 410 to 700 Revengaa: raises 943 to 1643 Ultraballs18: raises 3356 to 4999 and is all-in Revengaa: calls 3356 *** TURN *** [Ah 4d Ks] [5h] *** RIVER *** [Ah 4d Ks 5h] [5d] *** SHOW DOWN *** Ultraballs18: shows [Ac Kc] (two pair, Aces and Kings) Revengaa: shows [4h 4c] (a full house, Fours full of Fives) Just wanted to post this to make sure shoving is ok in this spot? I mean I thought of flatting, but then I just thought he's never folding. bet bet betting ends up getting the lot in too, any reason to play the hand any differently to how I have? With no real draws out there, this early does a good reg ever have worse? The only probable set is the fours, can we fold here knowing there's literally 4 hand combo's that beat us? Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pugwashed on April 21, 2012, 11:39:25 PM Pre is fine, cbet the flop every time here. Revengaa is a reg and his value range for 3betting the flop is AK+ so you beat none of it (I actually think his flop 3bet is really bad but nvm). Shoving when you did folds out all his bluffs (in a spot where he might not have any) and gets it in when you're chopping at best. I would never check/raise the flop in this spot but as played I think he pretty much always has it, he's just not going nuts for that many BB at this stage of of 1r1a, this hand is made super weird by the fact that you check/raised AK4r as the 3bettor.
Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pinchop73 on April 21, 2012, 11:47:30 PM I know villain is a winning reg, which is why I posted this really, as I don't see a mass tabler like him ever getting ool this early.
I've c/r'd to make it look as bluffy as possible to his AQ/AJ/A4s, as I can never really have 44's here, and I'd be flatting AA/KK. Also cbetting folds so much of his range, most pairs fold to the cbet on this board. I wanted value from this hand. I'm happy for him to check behind, he's bound to take one stab at it. Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: sm00035 on April 22, 2012, 12:03:11 AM C/r this flop is pretty terrible.
The fact you check raise the flop with the bottam of your range and he still puts chips in the pot should make this an easy fold for you. I also echo that his 3bet on flop is also bad in that he loses to more hands then he beats when you c/r if you are playing a hand for value, which near enough always are Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: sm00035 on April 22, 2012, 12:07:54 AM I've c/r'd to make it look as bluffy as possible No offence, but you've done a terrible job Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pinchop73 on April 22, 2012, 12:41:08 AM I've c/r'd to make it look as bluffy as possible No offence, but you've done a terrible job Your kidding right?! How would I take offence, tis only a game. I'd far rather hear your thought's than have you sit behind the keyboard and snigger at how bad I am! lol With a reasonably active image, (running like 22/17ish at this point) the b/c line is easily the best line then yeah? What would be the most optimum line on a brick turn? Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: sm00035 on April 22, 2012, 12:51:30 AM Just some people seem to take real offence to things on forums etc.
Erm yeh I mean I'm assuming you don't have THAT much history with villain, so the fact you are running at 22/17 is kind of irrelevant as tournie is so early on and this is likely to be some of the only stats he has on you, that's even if he is using a HUD. I think something more relevant would be how you have lost 800 of your chip already as I am assuming he has witnessed this!? I think bet/call is defo the best line. It is important to realise though there is a huge chance you are bet calling as you are losing, not trapping him. Depending on turns I think you can check fold most of them. In game it's obv a lot harder and I might even end up check calling turn. It defo is an option as check calling turn and check jam river, but unless you have a lot of history, or know 100% he is a decent player, I would not get into the habit of trying to make people fold sets. Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: sm00035 on April 22, 2012, 12:51:52 AM Or even top pair
Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pugwashed on April 22, 2012, 01:25:31 AM I also echo that his 3bet on flop is also bad in that he loses to more hands then he beats when you c/r if you are playing a hand for value, which near enough always are This isn't really the reason why I said I thought his flop 3bet was bad. With 44 he's flipping against AK/AA/KK. The reason I thought his flop 3bet was bad is because if he's looking for a good way to play against the c/r with his entire range then he might well have bet the flop with AQ/AJ but obviously these become pure bluff catchers against the c/r when you rep a completely polarised range, if he just calls the c/r, calls the turn and calls a shove on the river he still gets the money in against your value range but possibly keeps some bluffs in. Obv raising bluff catchers achieves nothing so if he wanted to continue in the hand with these after being check/raised on the flop then he should call so its still possible you have some bluffs, also calling the c/r with all his nutted stuff protects his bluff catchers and also makes it easier to get paid with his nutted hands when he can have some weaker parts to his range that could fold later streets. Basically, I don't think he should have a flop 3betting range here especially when 3betting the flop is not necessary for him to get all the money in, his entire range that wants to continue after getting check/raised should be flatting the check/raise imo. I may have been rambling a bit but I hope that made sense Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: sm00035 on April 22, 2012, 01:34:27 AM I also echo that his 3bet on flop is also bad in that he loses to more hands then he beats when you c/r if you are playing a hand for value, which near enough always are This isn't really the reason why I said I thought his flop 3bet was bad. With 44 he's flipping against AK/AA/KK. The reason I thought his flop 3bet was bad is because if he's looking for a good way to play against the c/r with his entire range then he might well have bet the flop with AQ/AJ but obviously these become pure bluff catchers against the c/r when you rep a completely polarised range, if he just calls the c/r, calls the turn and calls a shove on the river he still gets the money in against your value range but possibly keeps some bluffs in. Obv raising bluff catchers achieves nothing so if he wanted to continue in the hand with these after being check/raised on the flop then he should call so its still possible you have some bluffs, also calling the c/r with all his nutted stuff protects his bluff catchers and also makes it easier to get paid with his nutted hands when he can have some weaker parts to his range that could fold later streets. Basically, I don't think he should have a flop 3betting range here especially when 3betting the flop is not necessary for him to get all the money in, his entire range that wants to continue after getting check/raised should be flatting the check/raise imo. I may have been rambling a bit but I hope that made sense Erm I think that is pretty much what I said no?! Albeit in just 1 sentance. Or may be it is just what I thought. You have kind of lost me, I'm tired and had a little to drink. Basically what I was trying to say was by 3betting flop he loses to 2 of your value hands and beats 1, if you are playing your hand for value, WHICH YOU NEAR ENOUGH ALWAYS ARE. Obviously if you are bluffing then I don't expect you/think this is ever the right board to 4bet bluff on. Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: sm00035 on April 22, 2012, 01:35:35 AM And yeh flatting the c/r is obv good as it keeps your range a whole bunch wider
Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pugwashed on April 22, 2012, 05:10:13 AM I also echo that his 3bet on flop is also bad in that he loses to more hands then he beats when you c/r if you are playing a hand for value, which near enough always are This isn't really the reason why I said I thought his flop 3bet was bad. With 44 he's flipping against AK/AA/KK. The reason I thought his flop 3bet was bad is because if he's looking for a good way to play against the c/r with his entire range then he might well have bet the flop with AQ/AJ but obviously these become pure bluff catchers against the c/r when you rep a completely polarised range, if he just calls the c/r, calls the turn and calls a shove on the river he still gets the money in against your value range but possibly keeps some bluffs in. Obv raising bluff catchers achieves nothing so if he wanted to continue in the hand with these after being check/raised on the flop then he should call so its still possible you have some bluffs, also calling the c/r with all his nutted stuff protects his bluff catchers and also makes it easier to get paid with his nutted hands when he can have some weaker parts to his range that could fold later streets. Basically, I don't think he should have a flop 3betting range here especially when 3betting the flop is not necessary for him to get all the money in, his entire range that wants to continue after getting check/raised should be flatting the check/raise imo. I may have been rambling a bit but I hope that made sense Erm I think that is pretty much what I said no?! Albeit in just 1 sentance. Or may be it is just what I thought. You have kind of lost me, I'm tired and had a little to drink. Basically what I was trying to say was by 3betting flop he loses to 2 of your value hands and beats 1, if you are playing your hand for value, WHICH YOU NEAR ENOUGH ALWAYS ARE. Obviously if you are bluffing then I don't expect you/think this is ever the right board to 4bet bluff on. It wasn't what you said, it may have been what you meant but it's quite different and what you said before is basically what you said again there, which were quite different / incorrect (in this spot) reasons against 3betting the flop. Your post reads as though you think 3betting the flop is bad from Revengaa's point of view because we only get it in against his value range and that we're behind that. If you poker stove it then we're flipping against an assumed value range of AK/AA/KK. But yeah, like you said in the post above this one its pretty much about keeping our range as wide as possible, keeping his bluffs in and not capping your bet/calling range on the flop by 3betting your nutted hands (that last sentence may have been a much easier way to say what I was saying in my last post) Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: action man on April 22, 2012, 05:12:11 AM cbet flop but as played, just a cooler
Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: expat on April 22, 2012, 11:14:04 AM PokerStars Hand #79239422176: Tournament #569010726, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2012/04/21 23:06:44 WET [2012/04/21 18:06:44 ET] Unless you strongly know that he can be raising weak then on the flop it is possible to get away from this hand when he raises 943 to 1643. You have a nice stack of 3356 left at blinds of 15/30 if you fold!Table '569010726 7' 9-max Seat #4 is the button Seat 1: Revengaa (7257 in chips) Seat 3: Amirazadi76 (5675 in chips) Seat 4: 14Hopper (7475 in chips) Seat 5: Aleksvik (7010 in chips) Seat 6: Ultraballs18 (5199 in chips) Seat 7: bamboocha88 (2620 in chips) Seat 8: aces_up4108 (7135 in chips) Seat 9: softcored (7395 in chips) Aleksvik: posts small blind 15 Ultraballs18: posts big blind 30 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ultraballs18 [Ac Kc] bamboocha88: folds aces_up4108: folds softcored: folds Revengaa: raises 33 to 63 Amirazadi76: folds 14Hopper: folds Aleksvik: folds Ultraballs18: raises 137 to 200 Revengaa: calls 137 *** FLOP *** [Ah 4d Ks] Ultraballs18: checks Revengaa: bets 290 Ultraballs18: raises 410 to 700 Revengaa: raises 943 to 1643 Ultraballs18: raises 3356 to 4999 and is all-in Revengaa: calls 3356 *** TURN *** [Ah 4d Ks] [5h] *** RIVER *** [Ah 4d Ks 5h] [5d] *** SHOW DOWN *** Ultraballs18: shows [Ac Kc] (two pair, Aces and Kings) Revengaa: shows [4h 4c] (a full house, Fours full of Fives) Just wanted to post this to make sure shoving is ok in this spot? I mean I thought of flatting, but then I just thought he's never folding. bet bet betting ends up getting the lot in too, any reason to play the hand any differently to how I have? With no real draws out there, this early does a good reg ever have worse? The only probable set is the fours, can we fold here knowing there's literally 4 hand combo's that beat us? Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pinchop73 on April 22, 2012, 05:34:20 PM Erm yeh I mean I'm assuming you don't have THAT much history with villain, so the fact you are running at 22/17 is kind of irrelevant as tournie is so early on and this is likely to be some of the only stats he has on you, that's even if he is using a HUD. I think something more relevant would be how you have lost 800 of your chip already as I am assuming he has witnessed this!? Yeah no previous, I just opr'd him and saw he was a very decent winner. I only took one rebuy at the start whereas he took both hence the disparity in chips. Up to this point I'd won two small pot and lost one, folding to a nit's ip 3b. I think bet/call is defo the best line. It is important to realise though there is a huge chance you are bet calling as you are losing There are literally 5 hand combinations that beat us, I don't see that as a huge chance that we're beat, that's a little results orientated imo. But you'd had a couple so we'll let that slide. :) Many thanks for your contibutions though! :) omg and as I type this I get coolered AGAIN in a $33cubed. fmfl. When the doom switch is on, it's on. PokerStars Hand #79273888090: Tournament #546367385, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2012/04/22 17:29:51 WET [2012/04/22 12:29:51 ET] Table '546367385 11' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: trio 3o (7009 in chips) Seat 2: WallterBish (8120 in chips) Seat 3: squee451 (3000 in chips) Seat 4: Donald (2294 in chips) Seat 5: Funnnuraba (5470 in chips) Seat 6: VinceVegaMFR (9023 in chips) Seat 7: mement_mori (8239 in chips) Seat 8: murkus84 (3636 in chips) Seat 9: Ultraballs18 (6090 in chips) VinceVegaMFR: posts small blind 40 mement_mori: posts big blind 80 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ultraballs18 [Qs Qc] murkus84: raises 120 to 200 Ultraballs18: calls 200 squee451 re-buys and receives 3000 chips for $30.00 trio 3o: folds WallterBish: raises 495 to 695 squee451: folds Donald: folds Funnnuraba: folds VinceVegaMFR: folds mement_mori: folds murkus84: raises 2941 to 3636 and is all-in Ultraballs18: raises 2454 to 6090 and is all-in WallterBish: calls 5395 *** FLOP *** [2d 8c 5s] *** TURN *** [2d 8c 5s] [Js] *** RIVER *** [2d 8c 5s Js] [4c] *** SHOW DOWN *** Ultraballs18: shows [Qs Qc] (a pair of Queens) WallterBish: shows [Kh Kc] (a pair of Kings) WallterBish collected 4908 from side pot murkus84: shows [9s 9c] (a pair of Nines) WallterBish collected 11028 from main pot Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pinchop73 on April 22, 2012, 09:58:51 PM Bit of a brag, but I'm glad I heeded your cbet advice...
PokerStars Hand #79289774171: Tournament #569020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (150/300) - 2012/04/22 21:46:10 WET [2012/04/22 16:46:10 ET] Table '569020010 414' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: myrrebuy (20009 in chips) Seat 2: Ultraballs18 (24267 in chips) Seat 3: Halfrek (19556 in chips) Seat 4: Zenni11 (11715 in chips) Seat 5: $hark2u (23322 in chips) Seat 6: jking1234567 (24600 in chips) Seat 7: rosemarie209 (18522 in chips) Seat 8: 19pete83 (30694 in chips) Seat 9: luis couto18 (9940 in chips) myrrebuy: posts the ante 30 Ultraballs18: posts the ante 30 Halfrek: posts the ante 30 Zenni11: posts the ante 30 $hark2u: posts the ante 30 jking1234567: posts the ante 30 rosemarie209: posts the ante 30 19pete83: posts the ante 30 luis couto18: posts the ante 30 jking1234567: posts small blind 150 rosemarie209: posts big blind 300 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ultraballs18 [Ac Ah] 19pete83: folds luis couto18: folds myrrebuy: folds Ultraballs18: raises 400 to 700 Halfrek: folds Zenni11: calls 700 $hark2u: calls 700 jking1234567: folds rosemarie209: calls 400 *** FLOP *** [Kh As 3s] rosemarie209: checks Ultraballs18: bets 1950 Zenni11: raises 9035 to 10985 and is all-in $hark2u: raises 11607 to 22592 and is all-in rosemarie209: folds Ultraballs18: calls 20642 *** TURN *** [Kh As 3s] [Jd] *** RIVER *** [Kh As 3s Jd] [Kc] *** SHOW DOWN *** Ultraballs18: shows [Ac Ah] (a full house, Aces full of Kings) $hark2u: shows [Js Ts] (two pair, Kings and Jacks) Ultraballs18 collected 23214 from side pot Zenni11: shows [Ad Qh] (two pair, Aces and Kings) Ultraballs18 collected 36175 from main pot $hark2u finished the tournament in 4198th place Zenni11 finished the tournament in 4199th place Talk about all your chrisamas's at once. These two we're the stronger opponents on my table too, so nice to be rid of them as it was a pain being oop. Don't worry, I'll have bust before the next break, big BLOW coming! ha Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pinchop73 on April 22, 2012, 10:57:15 PM What comes around goes around.
PokerStars Hand #79293611279: Tournament #569020010, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XII (400/800) - 2012/04/22 22:54:01 WET [2012/04/22 17:54:01 ET] Table '569020010 414' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: myrrebuy (19429 in chips) Seat 2: Ultraballs18 (44951 in chips) Seat 3: Halfrek (57644 in chips) Seat 4: theodorus32 (47936 in chips) Seat 5: dawid_tdi (18855 in chips) Seat 6: jking1234567 (14100 in chips) Seat 7: rosemarie209 (2417 in chips) Seat 8: 19pete83 (34624 in chips) Seat 9: Fullysam (16269 in chips) myrrebuy: posts the ante 80 Ultraballs18: posts the ante 80 Halfrek: posts the ante 80 theodorus32: posts the ante 80 dawid_tdi: posts the ante 80 jking1234567: posts the ante 80 rosemarie209: posts the ante 80 19pete83: posts the ante 80 Fullysam: posts the ante 80 jking1234567: posts small blind 400 rosemarie209: posts big blind 800 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ultraballs18 [Js Jd] 19pete83: folds Fullysam: raises 15389 to 16189 and is all-in myrrebuy: folds Ultraballs18: raises 28682 to 44871 and is all-in Halfrek: folds theodorus32: folds dawid_tdi: folds jking1234567: folds rosemarie209: folds Uncalled bet (28682) returned to Ultraballs18 *** FLOP *** [4h 8d 8h] *** TURN *** [4h 8d 8h] [6h] *** RIVER *** [4h 8d 8h 6h] [3d] *** SHOW DOWN *** Fullysam: shows [8c 8s] (four of a kind, Eights) Ultraballs18: shows [Js Jd] (two pair, Jacks and Eights) Fullysam collected 34298 from pot Going to stop posting now. Being oop to Halfrek is not enjoyable. Title: Re: $33cubed flopped 2p facing 3b Post by: Pinchop73 on April 23, 2012, 03:40:28 PM PokerStars Hand #79273888090: Tournament #546367385, $30+$3 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (40/80) - 2012/04/22 17:29:51 WET [2012/04/22 12:29:51 ET] Table '546367385 11' 9-max Seat #5 is the button Seat 1: trio 3o (7009 in chips) Seat 2: WallterBish (8120 in chips) Seat 3: squee451 (3000 in chips) Seat 4: Donald (2294 in chips) Seat 5: Funnnuraba (5470 in chips) Seat 6: VinceVegaMFR (9023 in chips) Seat 7: mement_mori (8239 in chips) Seat 8: murkus84 (3636 in chips) Seat 9: Ultraballs18 (6090 in chips) VinceVegaMFR: posts small blind 40 mement_mori: posts big blind 80 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to Ultraballs18 [Qs Qc] murkus84: raises 120 to 200 Ultraballs18: calls 200 squee451 re-buys and receives 3000 chips for $30.00 trio 3o: folds WallterBish: raises 495 to 695 squee451: folds Donald: folds Funnnuraba: folds VinceVegaMFR: folds mement_mori: folds murkus84: raises 2941 to 3636 and is all-in Ultraballs18: raises 2454 to 6090 and is all-in WallterBish: calls 5395 *** FLOP *** [2d 8c 5s] *** TURN *** [2d 8c 5s] [Js] *** RIVER *** [2d 8c 5s Js] [4c] *** SHOW DOWN *** Ultraballs18: shows [Qs Qc] (a pair of Queens) WallterBish: shows [Kh Kc] (a pair of Kings) WallterBish collected 4908 from side pot murkus84: shows [9s 9c] (a pair of Nines) WallterBish collected 11028 from main pot Looking at this hand more, I'm thinking that its a cooler I could have got away from, I maybe should have folded this hand? Do you fold here? I mean the 3b'or is a massively winning reg, does he ever 3b an utg raise and an UTG+1 flat this early with less than QQ+? In the heat of the moment I thought it just looked like a std squeeze spot, but if he's never 3b/f'ing then his range has to be QQ+ right? All comments muchly appreciated. :) |