blonde poker forum

reads on villain, know he is a reg and a poster on 2+2 has been playing really snug tight agg game for the few hours ive been at the table. Tanked really hard on this one.

PokerStars Hand #80410154580: Tournament #2012050213, $2000+$100 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XVI (600/1200) - 2012/05/14 4:33:31 WET [2012/05/13 23:33:31 ET]
Table '2012050213 76' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: kirbynator (87298 in chips)
Seat 2: never4getbet (33594 in chips)
Seat 3: Ryokan (100119 in chips)
Seat 4: ImWithSumo (18495 in chips)
Seat 5: 0Human0 (42462 in chips)
Seat 6: hook2120 (90817 in chips)
Seat 7: Ramux (93099 in chips)
Seat 8: peitelanco (56350 in chips)
Seat 9: ThEcLaiMEer (76279 in chips)
kirbynator: posts the ante 150
never4getbet: posts the ante 150
Ryokan: posts the ante 150
ImWithSumo: posts the ante 150
0Human0: posts the ante 150
hook2120: posts the ante 150
Ramux: posts the ante 150
peitelanco: posts the ante 150
ThEcLaiMEer: posts the ante 150
kirbynator: posts small blind 600
never4getbet: posts big blind 1200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to ThEcLaiMEer [As Jh]
Ryokan: folds
ImWithSumo: folds
0Human0: folds
hook2120: folds
Ramux: folds
peitelanco: folds
ThEcLaiMEer: raises 1440 to 2640
kirbynator: raises 3586 to 6226
never4getbet: folds
ThEcLaiMEer: calls 3586
*** FLOP *** [3h Ad Js]
kirbynator: bets 7007
ThEcLaiMEer: calls 7007
*** TURN *** [3h Ad Js] [Ts]
kirbynator: checks
ThEcLaiMEer: bets 14895
kirbynator: calls 14895
*** RIVER *** [3h Ad Js Ts] [6s]
kirbynator: bets 59020 and is all-in

Can't think of a single hand he can have that beats you. I'd snap and I think he on tighter side than most. Just what on earth can he have? Must just always be some random marginal showdown hand turned into a retarded bluff.

Snapo

having ace spades is huge ehre and the main reason why i'm not folding.

is this on the bubble? looks like a call either way

I don't know the guy particularly well, but i highly doubt it is a completely retarded bluff. He is just too good. Fantastic record in online MTTs/online cash, can't see him spewing off here.

The only hand he may play this way more than 0% of the time that beats us is KsQs and he may play it this way between 0 and 10%. I couldn't care less about people's records when there are no combinations of hands he can have!!! Feel free to enlighten me with possible range tho cos I may be wrong

Qs 9s and 7s 8s

are two hands that are possible imo another MAYBE Ks /Qs 3s?

I can't think of a single way we could juggle the maths here and it not be a call - Is there a chance he can have worse for value? That seems VERY unlikely as well, A6 possibly? would prolly only be the suited ones pf + I think he chk/calls A6 close to always, just cant see AT or JT playing like this, nor non spades KQ.

This is so weird and such a retarded spot to bluff as you're not even at the top of your range here - you're range is pretty much uncapped (not so heavy on flushes, but still) the chance of you having a hand that can call here is pretyty decent, speshly as we know he DOESN'T have the Aspades - if he was going to go off his lid PLO style with KK or QQ then you'd expect him to take off OTT?

but never underestimate the ability of someone who plays internet tournaments all day to randomly lose his brain lol

Why wouldnt he barrel the turn with them hands tho as he is never getting raised. Check calling them hands oop is just lol bad

I see exactly what you are saying. In general, my default in wtf spots is call, but here, i just don't know. Can't see myself folding in-game tho soooooooo shrug. Just seems like vs retards always hit call, but if we know he is decent, we have to reduce his spazz %, so we have a real decision here.

edit: Does it sound retarded for me to say in game when I'm so far off from these stakes?

Hope you called just so we get results

Pretty fun one. My initial instinct was to fold but I agree with Dubai that if he had some sort of spade combo he'd just barrel turn and c/calling would be pretty bad from him. It looks great when we have AJ and he (maybe) gets there but most of the time he's gunna just fire again or maybe take off and c/r turn with spades.

I do think that he could play KQ this way but I'm finding it very hard to convince myself that he can have spades. The only hands that I can think of are stuff like 3xss that decided to c/c with its fragment of showdown value? Surely this villain is going to recognise though that 3x isn't really much showdown value at all.

So yeah I think its a call but sometimes he's gunna show you the KQ. Would be extremely suprised to see a flush and I think its hard for him to have a flush without having butchered this hand - demonstrated nicely by the fact that you're genuinely thinking about folding top 2.

I was in a similar spot* to this recently and the guy had a flush (45ss iirc). Was a 109 or something tho.

*reasonable, tight 2p2er OOP PFR with initiative c/c instead of barrelling turned bdfd no showdown value, then donking river (I shoved with a bluff, he tank called)

Yh agreed. Just trying to rack my head and think of any hands that could take this line and it be good, he's completely butchered the hand irrespective of what his holding is.

Chk/call turn Jam river is horrific I can't think of two cards he can have to make it good. So knowing now that we know he is capable of playing like this, we now can open his range up to include K3 Q3 Q9 and 89 OTT - I think as well he'll get to the turn with those 4 hands a very HIGH % of the time he is dealt them, as blinds steal vs UNopned BTN steal always seems ridic high in online donkyments. I'll forgive him IF he has KQss although he has still butchered it.

I cant go round giving a good villain 1 legit value hand and folding, so call, and if he has any other cards but KQss we need to note this shit!

havnt read all of the above, so sorry if some of the following is repeated. Trigg is grinding at my house and in game time i was like waiting for him to SNAP click call. But the more i think over the hand, the more i wana make a fold. Kirby is defo one of the tighter regs (or not as crazy as some high stakes regs), and i just cnt see him going crazy here on river. The only thing we can beat is a marginal hand that he has decided to turn into a bluff, but even this seems unlikely. In game time i was sure he would be barrelling hands like Q9ss or similar hands that have picked up flush draws on the turn, but now im not so sure. The turn is defo a card that can improve our perceived range and were going to be nutted some % of the time. So its possible he is just c/calling the turn to improve and gona c/fold unimproved.
Its such an absurd line tho and defo a great hand for PHA.

Thing is even if it improves our range he still gets raised so rarely on the turn that he should always bet with combo draws. We are at the near top of our range and we would still flat if he bets

Call as well. Never like it when we trap with a monster and then do a fold. At the end we know he's not jamming the nuts so something is rotten in Denmark. Think it would be a pretty thin value shove into a soft played hand. Maybe he used some kinda stop & go technology to float the turn and play the draws with no hand and a good image. Two random cards and big ideas is as likely as non nut flush imo.

not sure if this is a level, you realise we have 2 pair yeh?

the turn went c/call so its not like it got 7bet.

no it goes, fold to button, we open close to atc, and an aggresive guy 3bets the big blind.

I think you need to look at the OP again before calling it a donk call

Yep you're all right.

The antes have all thrown me of course. I am terrible at reading HH's.

Apologies Richard.

Although, flat calling is still bad imo.

why? its important/good to give reasons when disagreeing with most people rather than jsut saying imo, what problems are we going to run into post flop, how is our hand vs his hand pre flop? equity? future reverse implied odds? how can we make position make it a profitable call, etc etc etc.

Looking at the position (correct me if I am wrong), the villain is in the SB?

SB has raised and of course can have any 2 cards and with Trigg being in late position, so could he. To flat call it in my view shows weakness. AJ is a big hand and flat calling is just the worst option in the world in my view.

Trigg has no idea where he is in the end, so just goes to show. He should be RR that raise, because he will then know exactly where he is in that hand.

My view is that the villain has got the back door straight draw and flush draw on turn and hit the draw on the river.

And I thought I commented in threads I really shouldn't. lol

Imo 4b/c vs this oppo would be mega spew. Hand is too strong to 4b/f. 4b'ing folds out a lot of his range that's weaker than our specific holdings. As I see it flatting pre is the only option.

made my day

Disagree.

Look at the positions of each player, 4 bet or fold. imo.

What is going on ITT?

Tons of deleted posts no?

Aaron, don't really understand what you're on mate?!

i think folding to the 3bet is underrated and probably ok/fine fwiw.

Don't be that guy Nathan (you know my views!) - Everyone should comment on every thread.

the concept of finding out where you are in hands is one that was ridiculed for ages by the aejones' of the revolution, the reason it become unfashionable is because people wised up to it, those times when you raised your top pair to see if he was at it and fold if he re-raises were being countered by people thinking "I bet he is finding out where he is" a were able to make an even more believable lie by re-raising again. THE came the time when people started to think "I bet his is just raising thinking I'm finding out where I am" and so on lol ntil the most optimal play in these situations (where you have a hand that you are PRETTY SURE is ahead of the opponent, but he COULD have abetter one) is to just call, and rather then using you betting to find out where you are, really start to analyse his and use this information to form your reads. This was pretty much hand-reading at it's basics.

Obviously you can go levels above - use your betting as a way to manipulate him, if you raise again preflop he might go all in with bluffs etc, but you need history and solid information to do that. I'm not saying that he should or shouldn't have re-re-raised preflop, but this is the reasons why the concept of raising for information in these sorts of situations has become a bit out-dated, because you give your opponent (a clever player) a perfect opportunity to deceive you further and/or to get much more value than he should have done from his very strong hands.  

I deleted my posts as I made a mistake in reading the HH.

I stand by what I said, it's either fold or raise again, definitely not call.

What your reason?

not saying you're right or wrong just necessary to proceed with the debate

You are in late position, the SB could just see this as a bluff, no? Flatting is just showing a sign of weakness, when the flop comes, does he put you on AJ?

Also, when you are flatting the bet, do you have any idea of where you are? A RR and you would surely get some information.

Throughout this hand Trigg has got no idea where he was.

we always put somebody on a range and try to narrow that as the hand progresses.

We know that vs his value range we are in bad shape, however vs his bluffing range we are in very good shape, when we 4bet we isolate ourself vs his value range as he will mostly fold his bluffing range.

if we flat call we get to play a pot in position, remember, position + skill = profit and can win vs some of his value range (kk/qq) when we flop an Ace, AK/AQ when we flop Jx or when it is a low board and we can take the pot down and more importantly vs his bluffing range he can try to represent strong hands on boards that are favourable for our hand.

when we 4bet AJ like you suggest it may aswell be any two cards as you are trying to fold.

this is pretty basic stuff and think youre 4betting to find out where you are strategy is pretty 2009 and extremely exploitable.

May I ask what you're calling range to the 3bets is? It is probably going to look like 22-99 which means you have a really weak range in 3bet pots on almost any board and villains will be able to play very well vs you.

aj vs his value range..



 
 Equity Win Tie 
MP2  29.62%  28.30%  1.32% AJo
MP3  70.38%  69.06%  1.32% 99+, AQs+, AQo+

aaron levelling here right?

no

 :)

There is no point in looking at %. They are only useful if you know what the other player had and like I said already, Trigg had no idea what he had and that was because of flatting the bet.

haha man, pls keep this up, im watching trigg tilt at reading ur replies

I think showing weakness isn't too much of a worry, Trigg has shown he has enough of a hand to call with, which shows his hand isnt one of the "bluffs" he woudl be raising from the button, he isn't going to flat here with 96o for example, if he thinks we have a weaker hand than AJ then it could be seen as a good thing for us? We are in position, with a hand that our opponent will try to represent (he will bet on ACE high boards for eg) and nicely, a BETTER hand than he thinks we will have? This could defo be a positive for us (again not saying he should or shouldn't flat call here PF, just saying)



The post I made before was covering this subject, a hand is like a jigsaw puzzle, as you start to put more pieces in you get a better idea of what it is. this is only the first stage of the hand, we have SOME (agreed, not very much) information, that information is that he has re-raised from the small blind vs out BTN raise. We know that he knows this will often be a steal, so we expect him to be raising as a bluff quite a lot, and we use this to build a (admitedly very wide at this point) range for him - most of his bluffs will be suited cards and stuff he doesn't think is strong enough to call from the SB with  Js 8s  Kc 6c and so on and OFC his very big hands. We can only guess what % of the time he is bluffing/raising with a good hand but Trigg's experience will give him a rough idea (maybe 1.5:1 in favor of good hands?)

Then we go to the flop/turn/river and we get more information and can maybe rule more hands out, if it comes  7c 8c 9d and he bets again, we can maybe rule AQ/AK out, if he cbets a  Jc 8s 5h flop then bets again on an ACE river, maybe we think he likely DOESN'T have TT/QQ/KK. Basically we go through the hand collecting information - we DONT need to gather all the information in one go at the start of the hand because this makes us dig to deep and look to hard, and that will always leave our opponent a great opportunity to lie to us.


I don't think this is true I think he was happy with where he was in the hand, but the river action from our villain is so very peculiar that it's now wonder he was a bit muddled on the end.

you never know an exact hand that the villain has, knowing your % i.e equity vs their range is THE most important thing at all times and how we go about making long term, profitable decisions.

Please, without wanting to be rude, I was looking forward to (observing) a high level discussion about this hand which is very interesting and is certainly not clear cut one way or the other.

Aaron, this is a 2k buy-in online tournament, and the players concerned in this hand are at a very high level of standard. No offence, but you're completely out of your depth here and the thread has turned into people explaining to you some extremely basic concepts about no limit holdem pre-flop theories that you are completely dismissing which is a) rude and b) just totally stupid.

It probably would have been more of a better idea to flat with 69 than AJ.

Flatting with AJ in that position in a 2c or $2k buyin is totally ridic.

This is why sick mtters like Trigg and Bram don't post much on here. It's really tilting.

haha brilliant.

the truth is, folding AJ pre in this spot would be totally ridic

Saying 1 thing is stupid /end discussion is a great example of exactly HOW NOT to improve at poker, even stuff you think is awful or even really stnd, those are the things you wanna look at and explore their merits as THAT is how you improve. You might be completely right that flatting AJ here is wrong, but by cementing that in your head as the gospel way to play is certainly a very bad idea.

Also


I can ALL-BUT PROVE mathematically this is incorrect if you give me 15mins on pokerstove. I disagree with Alex's post saying that high stake/higher level players should have more say in these threads than anyone else, but I also think everyone should be open-minded, responsive and respect everyone's experience. This will always end up in a better thread

the thing is, although Dave said otherwise, people really shouldn't post in places that they don't play their selves.  Posting, asking questions is one thing, but coming in calling something a donk call and preaching is totally out of line and spoils PHA imo.

I think Trigg played the hand spot on to the the turn and then was obviously baffled by the river jam...but who wouldnt be ? as its very difficult to isolate the villains range.

Would he jam the river with a flopped set ?(doubt it)..or did he just float the flop with 2 spades ? and get lucky with runner runner ?

There are a lot more % reasons to call the jam bet than lay it down...but in theses spots its either a stone cold bluff or a monster .

just to clear things up.

trigg raises button, kirby 3bets sb, trigg peels

kirby bets aj3 xxs rainbow, trigg calls

kirby check calls on the 10s turn

Kirby jams the 6s river.

Agree with you mr Suu.

But from this position (and this deep?) you just should not be flatting. You have a premium hand in late position, the SB (who could have any two and may think you have any two, both are reasonable) re-raises you. You have a premium hand and you flat, therefore you have no idea where you are. If the flop came 2 7 10, where are you then? You still have two overs, his possible bluff could have hit.

My general thoughts here is that he has QK, it's a raising hand, but also a folding when someone elses re-raises your raise.

AJ in that position? There isn't many hands beating you, but in the end he did end up beating you.

Aaron of all the interesting parts of this hand, you have literally managed to find the only disinteresting part to focus in on and violently take issue with...

what is premium?! a premium hand is a hand that is way hand of the guys range for getting it in, i.e jj+, ajo is not a premium as I showed you in the PokerStrategy.com equilab calculator.

FWIW - Trigg played the hand well after the flop.

But I shall stick to my opinion that he should have RR.  

I didn't say only high stakes players should comment on high stakes threads, I said I think it's terrible how a microstakes player like aaron can come onto this thread and insult the thinking and plays of some of the best mtt players in the country and ruin what could've been an excellent thread.

Some sort of humility is needed surely?

A post like "I don't understand why we'd flat AJ in this spot? I personally would always fold or reraise." is obviously fine, and what PHA is about. Lots of people will read and think the same thing and read and learn from the replies to that post.

A post saying "Trigg played the hand awful, flatting AJ is ridic" should be deleted as it's rude, naive, arrogant, not to mention might hurt Triggs feelings :D

Simplyfying it a bit If you re-re-raise with AJ then in general what hands that are worse than AJoffsuit will call? The answer is MOSTLY none, so we chase good hands out of the pot.
If your worry is you are against a better ace and an ace comes well firstly in these positions thats pretty cold, secondly there is more play in the hand to build up a picture of what hands the opponent is more likely to have and thirdly you have position which makes everything easier and better.

Of course you can 4bet and try and get him to spazz it off with the J9 (gets there) or A8 or w/e if you have some dyanimc

im sure that he will be happy to hear that

Turning into a comedy   :)

lol - I am going to leave this thread as I don't want to hurt his feelings.

Plus, I want to avoid the traffic.

sidenote, nothing you say will hurt my feelings.

i decided to flat the 3bet as vs this player there is a very slim chance i can get close to 60bb in pre and be good. There is a good chance however he is 3betting light and will barrell a lot of flops and turns, position is huge in pots like this
and were deep enough that im more than confident of playing down the streets. There are a lot of players id 4bet/6bet or 4bet/call against but kirbynator is not one. marc, bramm, getting daize, moorman1, NoraB are players i would look to get this in vs

You've forgot Mement and rdcrsn in that list Trigg.

Fwiw I think he can take this line with Ks9s,Qs9s,Qs8s and really not much else.

As in I really don't think he c/c's the turn with any KQ combos other than KsQs, and I really think he flats this specific hand pre.

In my experience when somebody takes this line they usually have it - however you having the As makes a huge difference.  Hes trying to rep a nut hand and you have a lot of them blocked. 
I Dont think he has a strong draw with no showdown on the turn as id expect him to barrel these himself.  So id put him on either 3sXs (but hes unlikely to have a 3x hand here id guess) or a KsJx, Ks10x type hand.  So i call and expect to see KsJx often enough.

this for me, only bluffs i can think that mite take this line are something like JQ/KJ one spade, in reality i think he turns up with JQss/KQss/KJss most of the time.

Js and 10s are on the board though and we have As which is why id call

lol comedy thread

no idea who this aaron guy is but pretty ballsy to come into a pha thread about a $2k hand and not only butcher fundamental thinking, but tell everyone else they are wrong, with no logical explanation as to why.

aaron, several people have tried to help you in this thread by talking through the fundamentals you are at issue with. i strongly suggest you go back and thoroughly re-read those posts. maybe even start a new thread to discuss them in more detail. if you go in with an open mind people will be more enthusiastic about talking and helping

ahh sorry, makes it alot more interesting horrible spot.

Can you quote me on where I have said anyone is wrong?

Thanks.

Just quote all of your posts itt including the ones you deleted.

Best of Blonde potential

Starting to think Aaron ain't the prick I at first thought he was.

He might just be on another level :)

if its who i think it is hes deadly serious.

aaron u hero.

with respect fella, you posted a set of selections on the tips for Tikay thread on Sunday which made it very clear that you don't gamble very frequently, you tipped them up at miles away from top price and the explanations for the bets included' Newcastle fans will be making lots of noise'. You even posted that the price on Gary Neville making the England squad was 1/4 yesterday

Its a bit rich to tell someone not to post on this thread because they aren't involved at this level when you basically did that exact thing on Sunday in the Tips thread.

If we start telling people which threads they can and cannot post in then its going to be very quiet around here.

Epic thread, sorry about the poster "aaron1867" my 2 year old boy jumped on the PC and created the account !

Regarding the hand although it's extremely tough to defy your opponents hand as his line makes little sense, in all my years of playing decent mtts with a sick slow structure vs solid regs they just always have it here. I would volley the cat, punch the screen hate life and fold !

thw way good debate works imo is you come in and say I THINK Y because of X. Tbf to Aaron, he did that. He gave his reasons why he thinks what he thinks and that is spot on imo.

Where he went slightly wrong was to defend his points so aggressively that some very good points that he contributed to making ITT were kind of lost.

I would hate to think anyone was deterred from posting in PHA threads ever + I'm sure bobby1 still wants the mug-ish punters like myself and pleno to bob along to the betting section every so often for some lols even if its just so he can lay a couple of bets for us :)

The great thing on threads like this and the punting ones is every post has the potential to create another post and there is no telling when a gem of a discussion appears from that.

When I read these hand discussions it miles above my poker ability, but I still read em and enjoy them.
Even posts like Aaron's which end up getting poo pooed create great posts from top top players.Nigdawg said the same as Pleno but In a constructive way.

ps, I sigh fold.

I would like to +1 both post, and compliment them on how nicely they work together :)up

I'm late to this thread, but LOL^

This Aaron guy can't be a real person. Surely. His responses not only show a lack of basic understanding of NLHE, but also a basic understanding of how to deal with people.

Reading this thread has literally made me angry. This is a really tough spot and Aaron's responses have been ignorant and have stunted the progression of the thread.

Btw, is it not possible for villain to be shoving a set on the river in the vain hope that Trigg will sometimes spazz call some of the range that he'll check back? Like maybe he checks the turn to keep trigg's floats and medium strength hands in, and then thinks that he's gonna check back too much on that river? Just a thought, open to criticism.

It seems tough for us to be beat, but I think I'd fold here to this villain; I've played with him a reasonable amount and he's pretty solid, also he's smart enough to know that he's repping really thin so I just don't think he's going to show up with random airs (or hands turned into bluffs) enough to call. I am struggling to think of hands that he can have mind, I just think he's gonna have some goofy flush or a set. If it were a different villain who is more creative more often, then I'm probably not going to fold since it is pretty hard for us to have the worst hand.

I've no idea who you are but you seem to be having a go because I incorrectly tipped Newcastle at what I thought was good odds. It's likely you are as unfamiliar to me as I are you but simply of everybody followed my advice on Newcastle including the no pals in the first half tip, te Newcastle without the big four, the Newcastle at Chelsea, Newcastle cs man it'd, the Newcastle -1 va man united etc then you would all be up alottrttttttttttttttttt of gambling points.

Not only do I have numerous coaching badges, have a sports degree that focused on coaching that I spent two years on ad the fact I played for Southampton in the same youth team as Gareth bale and theo Walcott whilst moving into semi professional football when I was still in my teens means that I'm definitely not somebody coming in totally uneducated. I post from my phone which doesn't hae odds checker on so ofc I can't always post the right price.

Te Gary neveille post was obviously a joke in response to camel and was just any of fun. Comparing my posts in the sports discussion thread that are always massively backed up with detailed opinion and when relevant facts and the way Aaron has responded on this thread on Pha in which by the way I'm one of of not the most active member both on posting hands and advice is insulting. I will keep posting on the sports forum and hopefully in the 2013 season I can be 1/4 as successful as I was this year in sports betting.

Not sure if you have anything against me but in never argumentative in Pha and always try to be constructive. This was my initial response to Aaron where I wrote a long post explaining my thought process in the hand and why people may disagree with his thought process. Again I used the pokerstrategy.com equilab calculator to show %s etc an it was most definitely a constructive post but yes I agree nigdawg > me

Yeah this isn't true. This is a hsmtt hand. You are an exception of course, but in general good players don't want to come itt and post 4 paragraphs explaining the difference between a value bet and a bluff. Nor do they want to deal with someone who posts their terrible thought processes as fact and with 0 humility or respect. These people should be flamed and ridiculed mercilessly till they learn better or quit posting, either of those two things works. This = more good players posting which = better threads.

http://lifewithfacecards.tumblr.com/post/21811508414/when-a-live-player-explains-his-thought-process (http://lifewithfacecards.tumblr.com/post/21811508414/when-a-live-player-explains-his-thought-process)

Have to completely agree with Rob there.

Oh, and THIS.

 Great post, agree with all of it. What's the top of our range when we get to the river and if we hae more bluffs than value bets is this not a river that we would be more inclined o drop the hammer on as we can credibly rep flushes / straights / value jan our sets and top two, whilst potentially hero folding a chunk to the donk jam whilst not ever making huge heels with like kj otr

Nit, why on earth get angry about my point of view? You obviously need to have a word with ya sen here if you are genuinely angry about my replies.

I opened this PHA and posted my opinion as it looked a quite interesting hand. I have also never been ignorant in this thread. Trigg has asked what player might have, but before second guessing that, you have to wonder about the pre-flop action. It is my view he should be re-raising, whilst I also think he played the flo and turn fine. As for the river? We will never know.

Pleno, AJ, not a premium hand in late position? I think you need to get away from the odds calculator for a little bit!

Bit of trolling here ;)

I asked him on another thread if this was him (got no response)

http://www.footballforums.net/forums/member.php/38895-aaron1867

forum I read, he is not very popular on there :)

I once shared a table with Greg Raymer, it doesn't mean I am now an expert on poker. I'm not really sure what the point of all that was other than deflecting from the fact that you have done in a different thread exactly what you have asked someone not to do in this one. Please keep posting in the tips thread coz every single post can be valuable even if they don't win but you must be able to see that putting up tips on there and then saying here that you cant check oddschecker or BF to find the price is the equv on there to Aaron's post on here. But on that thread you got defended from the stick, on this one you are giving out the stick.

I agree with your point about your hand analysis skills, I like reading almost all of them tho being a middle aged jumper wearer I would say they would be easier to follow without a lot of the abbreviations and acronyms. Coz I don't always get the lingo.

I am kind of hoping that the OP called so we find out what the guy has and the fact that so many really good players have different ideas on it is brill.Tho if the PHA board just turns into a small group of v good players only ever talking about v good high stakes hands then doesn't it just make it a super narrow board? With your knowledge and the variety of hands that you post it seems a bit daft to alienate others from posting even if their level is below yours.

But with all due respect, a 10 player isn't going to learn from this if anything the opposite will happen, ask John black, he spent a lot of time studying mod stakes 6 max theory, tried to implement it at nl25, guess what happened? They didn't old.

If there was only high stakes hands here then I'd understand, but there is always always a great selection of very different type of hands. Howeve there is very rarely high stakes hands posted and you very rarely see trigg, leknave, middy et al posting so basically what you said is rather upside down in my opinion. What patonius was suggesting would increase the quality of the board by after the replies trigg gt from Aaron who plays a totally different game. Against totally different players  it is going to mke middy or whoever else just send the had to sonebody on Skype rather than posting here.

When was the last time you saw sonebody post a high stakes hand on the thread now compare to 3 or 4 years ago and I can guarantee you people play a lot more bigger comps now than then.

Ah, so what you are saying is that you shouldn't post if you don't play those stakes yourself? Or because we don't want them going to Skype?

Unfortunately there is a silly assumption to what stakes I play.

No what I an saying is that you should generally post in treads were you can add constructive comments or post in a mannor that is asking why rather than stating facts.

With assumption to what games you play you spoke in your gambling addiciton thread that you made 10 k from poker last year and whilst this is a great amount of money it doesn't come from regularly playing 2.1ks etc combined with your strategy advice on this thread in particular provided me with my assumptions. I generally don't care tbh, it's a free forum and people can post where they like on pokerstrategy you can only post in certain boards and you are restricted to posting in certain hand evaluations that are deemed above your status level, this is obviously not going to work on blonde.

I guess it will just put me off in the future. Best of luck to you in poker, Pha and fighting your gambling addiciton, I mean that sincerely.

Ah, so you have just backed up what I said really.

You must have been totally misguided by the topic I created elsewhere. I can play high stakes too, but I just choose not to play online as much.

Got be honest - I am with Pleno, Jamie and Rob; it's the way Aaron made is points as much as the level 1 thinking that has got to people; I think Marc was serious when he thought it was a level and so did I.  just life experience - if he'd kicked off with "I don't play at this level, but I'd like to understand whether you considered raising Trrigg and why you eliminated that option" I think he'd of got a sensible reply and not derailed the thread. I've asked stupid questions to many really good players - done in the right way they all responded really well but I'm still shit :)

Think the answers a happy medium, get involved in the thread - doing it in the right way.  

To be honest the comparison to Plenos posts on Betting Threads is unfair; a comparison would be Camel/Dubai coming on asking for a view on a long term market where he wants some more input from shrewd judges and a random £2 punter  jumps in and says he's a clown for even considering the bet and it's redic - think we'd all be pissed off if that happened and Keef and Dave said sod you I won't post here.

Lol. You've got me in bits here Aaron. I just wish some of these guys were in on some of your other threads. My favs are

1. I hate it when people don't play blackjack optimally and this guy in the casino reckons if we play together we will crush the game.

2. I am really lag but think I might try playing tight for a bit.

3. I lose a grand a day in the bookies and need help but don't want to go to GA.

The stuff you come out with is pure bull shit. I was out of line saying you must have been abused as a child but clearly something ain't right in your head :)

Aaron, I'm going to reply to you once and once only since several people itt have TRIED to explain to you where you're going wrong, but you just seem to ignore everyone and say "imo" at the end of whatever unsubstantiated statement you've decided to spew onto the screen.

You haven't given any logic/mathematics/solid reasoning behind any of your comments, you've just made several statements that don't contribute anything to the discussion. This was a high stakes tournament, and the OP has taken the time to post an interesting hand that requires a lot of analysis so any replies should be at the same or at least a competing standard of depth.

I'm all for people with less experience throwing in their two pence, but only if they are willing to be open minded and respectful, appreciating that they are out of their league talking about $2k tourneys and just enjoy the discussion.

What you did Aaron was almost the opposite of this. Not only did you spout statements with nothing to back it up, but you also continued to harp on and de-railed what could have been a very thought provoking thread.

Issues, Jason.

Without him asking dave and I spent time writing detailed posts explaining the reasoning and he replied basically with loltheory , but yer good post mate

I'm with aaron.  Richard, you don't have a clue where you are in the hand. 

fold pre > RR > call

I have posted theory on this, but neither do I have as much time as you guys to look for percentages as I have things to do.

The game of poker isn't about percentages.

As for all this about stakes, again a load of tosh.

As for the thread, might better to be locked, because it's gone totally off topic and turned into most people having a go at me. zzzzzzz!

fk the haters aaron1867

It's not the monetary value that makes stakes important. It is the fact that generally the players are alt better so you have to take different lives to those that you would in dtd or on a 20 dollar comp.

It takes me the same amount of time to work out the %s as it does you waiting for the ball to land in one of the 36 holes. In not dealing a flop out 100 times and writing down the results, I actually enjoy doing the studying whined the %s though as it improves my game and thats why we all post on Pha right? Invest time into learning and improving

reading this thread reminded me of this...

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=12519.0

sorry for not taking it as seriously as a should.

Heroes of this thread in order are

1) Lildave
2) aaron1867
3) pleno

Sorry that I put you third pleno.  I'm not going to give a reason but am stating it as FACT.

Mate, last post - bit of advice, you're probably a sound lad so log off, get some sleep and stop posting. This post, with respect, is incredibly tilting.  In a nice way, you've been told by the best online player in the world in a constructive way, your theory is way off then you've told one off the best high states MTT players in the UK his play is "redic", you had two of the best online cash players in the UK try and advise you, Jamie's last post in a very constructive way - and well, dismissed  lilDave who has time for everyone, and Pleno who works harder than anyone to improve his game. Your last post about "time to understand %" and "stakes are tosh" is quite frankly insulting to those guys who dedicate loads of time and treat playing like a job.

Rant over - goodnight all.

So now we another person jumping in just saying things without giving any reasoning. Is it really that difficult to understand?

How can the stakes be irrelevant? Dissecting a $2k hand is is obviously going to be very different from a smaller buyin (different at each level in fact) because the level of thinking ability in the opponent is very different at $0.10/$1/$10 or $1k, so actions taken during the hand should be changed accordingly. E.G. This might be a fold pre in an $11 MTT because the villain probably doesn't have enough bluffs vs value hands and his value hands crush us, so there is a lot of reverse implied peeling against a range that contains mostly really good hands (TT+ AQ+). The reason there is an argument why we can peel here is because in a HSMTT the villain is a guy who plays poker for a living, and may have enough hands in his range that our hand flops well against, and we can extract more value down the streets in a lower variance fashion than we can pre flop with a fourth bet. As discussed earlier, if we 4bet without dynamic against a TAG reg we're just going to force out the hands that our hand either beats or plays well against post flop.

If you can't understand the difference in strategy between levels then you should sign out of blonde, invent a memory wiping device, wipe your password and any knowledge that poker even exists from your brain so we can all be done with this ridiculous thread.

And as far is it being locked goes, yeah maybe it should be locked, so I physically can't listen to any of your ignorant, self assured brand of poker "theory" anymore.

What software is that you're using to calculate the %s? And what site is it from?

Lollololol

Villan had aces??? If it doesn't make sense then there's a like 15% chance they have aces

Also, I really don't think that the comment "The game of poker isn't about percentages" has got NEARLY enough love.

So glad people like you still exist.

If carlsberg did PHA threads....

weeeeeeee. I'm just rofling about reading this thread.

anyone ready for the results yet?

u folded m8

was kinda a gag mate

LOL so this thread has gone off it's lid and we will never know the outcome FML !!!!!!

I'm waiting for Trigg to tell us he was actually in Kirb's shoes here and you had Ks 6h AND HOW CAN HE CALL WITH JJ HOW HOW HOW WHAT A MASSIVE FISH.

Also Aaron - it's worth mentioning that plenty of people PAY for the time some people have put into explaining theory stuff so disrespecting it and not reading it (which you clearly didn't) is always going to get peoples backs up a bit.


Like playing football without nets in the goals. Still works fine but takes ages running 300ft to collect the ball everytime someone scores.

Great analogy could call it the "jumpers for goalposts" theory

this.

it's been a laugh.

although i hope it doesn't put off people like bram and trig and other hsmtters from posting future hands.

I think the main reason they don't post hands all that often is because, aside from the super ridiculous spots like this, it offers very little benefit having information about your hands online/thoughts on other regs etc when lots of people who play the same games read these threads.

It's not a problem for me as my aliases are not very well known + the people I do know on here I play vs I talk strategy with all the time.

So when a hand is uniquely interesting like this one it has a great chance of being posted.

tricky ricky trigger please do me a favour and let us all know the results so we dont have to wade through another 8 pages of waffle nearly as bad as mine

i will be truely greatful


yours ironside 

please tell me he had AQ and you stacked him and went on to win the event

on a serious note guys the PHA board has been great for the past while since people stop calling each other names and in fighting would hate to see it move that way again if a mirco stakes player like myself offers there miss guided advise on a thread just point out there mistake and ignore there rants if they dont seem to be trying to learn


arron the reason you dont RR the flop is simple you have a good hand but if you RR you win a small pot by getting worse hands to fold and lose a big pot without seeing a flop if he continues in the hand as your always crushed with AJ if you reraise and see a flop
you dont try to define hands now adays thats so 2007 its now you define a range and in this spot you define the range moving down the streets not by getting it all in preflop with a hand likely dominated

well said ironside.

I think he said that he folded, so no further results...

this thread is beyond epic. I agree that the 'poker is not about %'s' quote hasn't got nearly enough love.

I have already looked at the HH, trigg folded.

Pretty com if kirby found this thread, had AA and posted the HH completely vindicating aaron :D

ORLY

Can we find the pips on his spades please? ;-)

no-one have him on skype? played lots of PLO with him he's good but certainly on the solider side.

Isn't he the French Canadian guy before any etc berated for slowing down the clock in the wcoop 8gane high

Lolz, what a thread.

People are funny. You've got Trigg, Chris Bram, Jamie Sykes and lildave, who are 4 of the best players in the world, telling someone that their thinking in a pretty basic spot is wrong, and they don't consider for 1 second that maybe they should consider changing their mind. Then someone decides to lol agree with him.

TIILLLLTTTTT

On the flip side, this is one of the reasons we all make money from this game :)

....

As for the hand, I agree with this post by Jamie. Although I don't know villain personally just going on what is described.

Seriously action man. Why don't you re raise preflop? That's just basic poker.

ALL IN.

link removed from quote because when I clicked it my NoD antivirus popped up and warned of a possible trojan

I have temporarily removed the link from the thread, see note on Dan's Post.

Aaron Brunskill ‏@aaron1867
Just remind me not to play poker with students, they have no clue.

Just had the same message come up - strange that it didn't appear the first time. I've deleted the post.

Same story, trustworthy site this time:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/blogs/controversy-over-stalling-in-wcoop-8-game-13187

edit: meh should delete that, probably too far posting that link sry

Can't understand how you ain't won a scoop at Marc's house Trigg. Seems pretty easy :)

How'd I miss this? Student quote is lol, I'm possibly the only one!

Maintaining we're beat for now

LARV this thread.

I think you meant 'talk' rather than 'play'  ;D, but as a student I like to think his attitude doesn't mirror the majority of us

As far as my thoughts on PHA go; I like the fact that this forum isn't so huge that PHA isn't completely subdivided into game type and then by stakes (as it is with 2p2) meaning that you can end up with a lot of good players with different experiences of poker being encouraged to think outside of their 'comfort zone' (preferred/normal game type). As far as people posting on hands where they have little experience of the games or stakes I think that its a good thing (provided its approached with an open mind). What I mean is that people being able to post their thoughts on a hand that they may not be "qualified" to comment on and have someone critique their thought process (PHAA?) can be as good a way for them (or others reading) to learn as any and creates some of the most interesting discussions imo. Obviously in this case Aaron has not approached the thread with an open mind, blindly dismissing advice from some far more skilled and experienced players but really the only person this hurts is himself

The fact that I study has got nothing to do with it and I definitely don't class myself as a student for many different reasons.

I have approached this thread and seen the action in front and can't understand why there is no re-raise. At any level of stake, I personally think you should be re-rasing here and all these people with regards to percentages is stupid, you can't play the percentages all the times, I'm sorry, but when you play poker live or online, percentages don't come into your head.

There are some people on here that can see my point of view to re-rasing, but if you don't agree that is fine. Flatting the bet in my view is not getting you any information and at any point does Trigg know where he is? Is it ok saying to flat? What if the flop is totally different? You ae indeed giving the opponent free cards.

Again, talking about stake... I haven't played at this level before, then you are wrong again. But then again, I have a social life and not sat behind a PC 24 hours a day.

I am re-raising this pre-flop every day of the week.

re-re raising, commonly known as a 4bet, rather than an initial raise which would be a 3bet or re-raise.

This thread is absolute gold, I've genuinely bookmarked it.

Aaron, are you saying that in game, you never calculate pot odds?  If someone shoves and you've got a flush draw, do you call based on whether you 'feel' the card is coming? Poker is a game of psychology and mathematics; to ignore such a fundamental part of the game, particularly in tournaments where other mathematical concepts are relevant, is, quite frankly, moronic.

We don't reraise AJo in this spot because it makes us massively exploitable.  If you are 4betting too wide a range, the villain is gonna 5bet-jam all day long with worse, and there is nothing you can do about it.  How is that finding out 'information'?  The 'information' you obtain from turning a hand that does well against a wide 3bet range in position into a 4bet that does terribly against his 5bet jam value range, is not the 'information' that you are wishing to obtain.  By adjusting, the villain exploits us, and in the long run, profits from this.

I'm a student too, and I will happily admit that I don't play at this level, because I am not rolled for it, and frankly, I'm not good enough.  Remeber, knowledge speaks, wisdom listens.  It is fine to have an opinion, but when the overwhelming majority of evidence is suggesting that modifying your viewpoint is the best way to go, perhaps this says something.  Poker is about adjustments.  Anyone that said they had no leaks in their game would be lying; it is those who plug these leaks quickest that profit in the long run.

Pleno was tweeting from Aarons perspective?

Saying percentages don't matter is a crime against poker

I was copying the tweet yeh lol.

I've been thinking alot about this hand the last few days and have some thoughts to add to the dicussion

*disclaimer* as of writing this post I have not read the replies to OP past a page or two but will read through them before I post in the thread again. Also I do not know if results hafve been posted but I think they are needed by now??

I like preflop, stack size wise we have a relative monster with position and a great price. I don't think anyone can argue against a 4bet too much but I don't really think it is correct to 4-bet call and if stack sizes were slightly shallower I could also see a 4 bet jam being a viable option.

As played, even vs a really solid reg such as Kirbynator I think you have to call. There is no hand range or hands that he can really have to have us beat.. I would imagine a player of kirbynators calibre to keep betting the turn if he turns a flush draw more often than not as we are unlikely to raise too many of our holdings, normally his hand here is just a hand that is check calling the turn to jam the river as he believes we can't call a shove, so just a retarded bluff - nothing. I mean if he is sick enough to take this line with a hand like AA 33 or w/e because it looks so bluffy then fair play to him give him the money I guess. I mean the only viable hand he can really have with this action is 89s feeling we're strong on the turn so c/c's it but I mean this is unlikely.. I say call riv and would be interested to see how anyone can disagree, if no-one does I would love to see results.

Anyway, that is my opinion of the hand as played, but I would like to propose an alternative way to play the hand... This particular flop AJ3 rainbow is so ridiculously dry and i think just raising the flop small is such a sweet way to play vs regs, repping exactly 33 or AJ as we're unlikely to have AA or certainly JJ with preflop, yet it makes so little sense to raise with the m that all the hands that pay you anyway, AQ AK etc will obviously still stack off one wayt or another once you raise the flop. When you flat call on the flop your hand looks pretty much like an ace or a good jack or something slowplayed, yet when you raise a dry flop like this it looks so weak and bluffy your range will likely be opened up in the eyes of your opponent that you may well induce 3 bet spew on the flop or c/r spew on the turn, also hard for him to just fold an ace in this position cos wtf u dont expect o get raised on this flop after 3bettingpre however if we flat we rely on him having a good hand or deciding to barrell off vs some obvious showdown... thoughts???

Wow, he actually said that? Comedy gold.

I showed Keylek this post, hes a good friend of mine. Hope we get results soon, pretty sure they haven't been given, although Doobs acted like we def see a showdown a page or two back

villian dependent Keylek. This guy wasnt spew at all, he was solid and had been for the 3 hours previous. I thought it much more likely for him to barrell off flop and turn at least  than go crazy if we raise the flop. I imagine him to expect me to be floating this flop a large % of the time, down the streets i would be looking to get called by Ax Jx type hands. If we raise the flop it puts him in a bit of a coffin with his Ax and Jx hands and he might hero fold these as my image was very solid at the time also.

Oh man Aaron, you're a lost cause.

People are funny. You've got Trigg, Chris Bram, Jamie Sykes and lildave, who are 4 of the best players in the world, telling someone that their thinking in a pretty basic spot is wrong, and they don't consider for 1 second that maybe they should consider changing their mind. Then someone decides to lol agree with him.

:) taking levelling to the next level

hahaha

I agree with quite a bit of this, really interested to hear other opinions also, so am going to wait a bit... And by spew I don't obviously really mean spew, to him you may be repping pretty much a nothing and it might just seem like free chips to him, even if both of you have been playing snug. I guess maybe your image isnt right for it and maybe kirbynator is tighter than average sicko reg, i don't know these things :)

Thats a good post imo

again, it was me copying his tweet lol.

Still got love for the Sheffield grinders though

x

out of curiosity aaron... would you be 4betting preflop for value or as a bluff, given that you have to be doing one or the other???

whilst this is usually true there are definitely spots where i would 4bet aj pre flop with the intention of folding to a 5bet but not intending to get aq/aq, jj+ to fold.

I'm with Aaron. You guys obviously have no clue if you thinks its not optimal to re raise preflop. You are playing AJ nit knowing where you stand. You shouldn't be letting him bluff you with something like 72o because thats what he has 90% of the time

I'd put kirby on TT, but either way river looks like snap fold to me.

so instead we should raise and make him fold his inferior hands and continue with hands that will usually dominate us whilst not being able to use our positional advantage and play against a range that we believe we are infrnt of and dominate most of his bluffing range.

this is really really 2009/basic sutff that should be in the learning to win board rather than an analysis of high stake mtt hand.

not even a semi good level attempt

Don't post results please either way - thread should be left to fade into the mists, still shrouded in mystery imo

Wtf is level?

Its obvious in high stakes that players ever have a goid hand. Always raising and re raising with rubbish. You only have to watch the tv programmes to know that

Waw ^^. Maybe not a level alert!

I like this thread (from a psychological point of view) simply because a moron (who I'm amazed can actually even read let alone type) has instigated some incredibly rare posts from some of the most intelligent players around, whom normally never ever take the time to post.

Well played Aaron, well played.

p.s. Kirby announced on 2p2 he was going to quit poker after this exact tournie (he could only muster 11th, needed 8th to breakeven in SCOOP) until FTP was back online. Not that it matters, just sayin'.

Some sick levels in this thread. The "best players in the world" one was sick. I also like ash masons "prettygreen" levelling account. Top work.

yar no1 was buying that.

except pinchop

wow, the analysis going into this hand is quality, think i have learnt loads just from this post. I would never 4bet in this spot simply because worse hands will  fold to this, better hands 5bet making me fold and oh hes quite capable of 5bet bluffing leaving trigg no option to fold too. call behind on flop is perfect for plenty of reasons, i personally check behind on turn for pot controll then bluff catch a much smaller bet on river or check behind. with how the hand is played out this is an extremely tough decision, no doubt trigg was prolly 4/5 tabling at this point too. so decision time is limited. The huge bet on the river stinks of strength for me, god forbid if i ever got in this situation with these stakes i probably find a fold and wait for a better spot.

p.s did someone refer 'aaron brunskill' as a sheffield Grinder??? lol had him on my table for 4 hours in the 150 deppstack at dtd last friday. kept telling me i was the worst player at the table as i increaded my stack to around 4x tourney avg. meanwhile he kept calling 8/9 bbs off in 3bet pots the folding and even leading then folding flops!! funny chap tho!!

is this him?

http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=222646

I was sat on your table at one point.

You lucky chap.

Guys can we please stop trying to out members real identitys most of us post under anon names and choose if we want to reveal ourselves

Trigg - How many tables did Kirby have open at the time of this hand?

I am good at the game of golf and usually play at The Belfry. I think anybody who isn't as good as me should be banned from playing this course and stick to shitty municipal courses where they belong. Why the hell should 24 handicap players think they are entitled to play courses which are clearly beyond their abilities? Next time I see somebody hack the ball away I'm gonna go straight over and tell them to fuck off.

Lol. Post moar in pha

Quite right, make me want to crack them in the face

if they came over and started bashing holes out of the ground and making a mess of the course whilst replying to you in a "no i am right" tone and that its only grass and it will grow back in and golfers who care about the state of the green have too much time on their hands i'm sure you would care.

This is my mate Aaron  off Facebook.

Edited version now

(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t69/threestargrappler/ronald_mcdonald.jpg)



Remove it if it breaks any rules Ironside.




link removed at user request

Yes it's all well and good that but how many times did he lose?

Yeah, I played one of my friends last week who's all keen and enthusiastic about the game and thinks he can play a bit. Well let me tell you he can't. On one of the par 3's I hit a sweet 8 iron off the tee which was the perfect club for the yardage. Anyway, he steps up and pulls a 5 iron out his bag. What an abs joker. I said he was pathetic for using a 5 iron and he was clearly wrong in his decision. I knocked the confidence right out of him and deservedly so. At the end of the day he's gotta know that I am much better than him and what a fool he is. That's how you learn in golf.

Saw that guy doing it in at the bookies, lolbad at fruities. When I offered to help he said he can get the money in fast enough himself

Golf now that is a game of %'s!!

TBF, you are defending a no-listen idiot who was given lots of well thought out feedback initially. The mocking only started after he started the trash talking

LMFAO.

3rd most replied to pha of all time lol

in like 3days!

Sorry bud haven't read all of thread. The message is to those players who say you shouldn't comment on high stakes hands if you don't play them because it's a kinda smug viewpoint that would lookly wildly out of place in any other game. Didn't realise there was a trash talking poker player itt, whatever next??

Btw what did villain have?

I dont think any1 is saying if your bad at poker you cant play the $2k (in fact most grinders would say quite the opposite).  If a scratch golfer posted he was having trouble with a slight hook and a 24 handicapper came in and told him to just aim further to the right its probably not the advise the scratch golfer is looking for.  Sure its good that the 24 handicapper is getting involved with discussions to help his game but if the 24 handicapper just insists that your stupid for not taking his advise you can see how that might derail the thread (as has happened here lol)

i actually don't think 4bet/folding AJo pre here is terrible option (i disagree its turning our hand into 72o, we got blockers and sometimes he peels) but calling is probably better.  Idk whats best on river its so hard for him to have a hand that beats us but at the same time such a strange line for a really good player to take as a bluff (maybe he does all the time and thats why he crushes).  I feel he could also be taking this line for value with sets+ (as weird as it is) to try get hero calls (and i don't think he'd expect you to make hero folds with your really good hands).  I think I like the fold eps when you factor in how tilted you will be if you call and get owned.

:P

So much fun to read. It's like watching this constantly.

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1371/7pmq9.gif)



First guy = Nit Tendencies

Second guy = Aaron imo

(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/6531/funnygifsexpectationsvs.gif)

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BOG4p1-H2Q

just 1, was pretty late on sunday

If a 24 handicapper told a scratch golfer he should aim further to the right to cure his hook the good golfers should come on and explain exactly why aiming to the right is only accentuating the problem. Afterall good golfers have heard this thought process a thousand times before and can easily expose it as poor advice with their logic and experience.

All the other 24 handicap golfers who think the same way would be glad that the good golfers showed a bit of class and took the time to explain why it is amateur advice. They would also be glad that the 24 handicapper got involved and got good golfers talking about a common problem. What the good golfers shouldn't do is get all anxious that there are confident 24 handicappers in the world.

lol mantis have you read through the thread

people have been banging their heads against a wall trying to explain. Aaron is so objective in his thinking that he won't listen to other points of view

Ok I will have 0.1% in the next $2k event of arron anyone join me?

Previous posts in this thread already explained why other replies to the OP are off track and gave solid reasons why.  I don't think any good poker player is getting anxious that there are confident bad poker players in the world.  After all bad players being over confident is part of the reason why poker can be profitable.

Think I'm confused cos don't know why these people are banging their heads against a wall trying to convince Aaron about something. Is it important to convince Aaron do you think?

Everyone has their opinion on this, do time to let this lie.

I don't think RR is a bad option. In fact, I think it's the best. People agree, some don't, let's move on.

I haven't ignored people's view points on this, just don't agree, this is why it's a forum!!

Lol i been viewing this forum for years and decided to make an account. Shame i did really because im just being shouted down by people who clearly have never played high stakes before or watched it on the telly.

You self proclaimed high stakes players give such bad advice. How many of u have ever played TV poker?! I bet action man hasnt, well he cant have by playing AJ like that lol.

[/b]

LOL

thread just keeps giving.

$20/hour lessons on how to play AJ.

I'll give you 13.45% for a to unplug your modem

I don't have modems, I'm in 2012, not 1912.

Why laugh out loud?

I agree with prettygreen and aaron now. From now on I will always RR with AJ until I get RRR then ill know I'm behind and can fold.

What if he backraises though?

Just say sorry for Party Rocking and it'll all be OK

RRRRR

He can't backraise, there was no C in that RRR list.

What are you like

 :tikay:

On a serious note, in regard to the hand. It just seems way too close. I think I fold just because people taking this line just generally have it. Whether he has 3sXs or KQ or 33/AA, it seems tough for him to have many value hands here and even tougher to think he would play a decent % of these this way. I think I just sigh-fold knowing i'm behind a decent %, but preserving my stack and because i'm Trigg I know i'll just win a bunch of chips in other less pukey spots.

Interestingly, do you think it becomes more/less of a call in a mid-stakes MTT? or vs an unknown?

What if you get New York back raised?  Then you've got a problem

ye snap it off vs most opponents

Now you can finally win money at poker!

Lol. I've seen Ash Mason...... And no way is he as funny as this joker whoever he is :)

Would not be suprised to find he has the same IP address as Aaron

wtf!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHiEkikhDGU&feature=related

This is just comedy GOLD at it's highest level, I literally was in stitches, too funny!

As played, I think I fold the river, I don't like it, but I am gonna put him on either KQ or 1010, I would say prob 10's, it looks like he knows what type of hand u have and is going for full value to get u to pay him off.

Just my feel on it, and from all information you have provided about his style, and also what I know of yours.

It was on the pokerstars big game, where you are given 100k to play with and any profit you make you keep but if you make a loss you get nothing. So this guy was a deece amount ahead and the money obv meant a lot to him and the show was nearing the end, so he folded.

Not saying I agree with the fold but there is context to it.

kirbynator will have a decent idea of what our range is in this spot, and go ahead and get value from that range by betting the turn when he has these hands. Sometimes he may check the turn sure, but the reasons that make him do that should still hold true on the river, meaning he will check to trigg there too. i think it's really important that both the  Aspades and  Js are removed from his range here, because the check call turn/donk river line makes no sense without either of them.

This is my favourite comment on the video

"I would jump at the chance to play on a table where at least one of my opponents thinks s/he should play AA preflop 100% of the time regardless of the situation."
Appiration

OK, thinking more about this hand, and just reading how the action went a bit more, then I'd actually be more inclined to put him on a flush more than anything.

Once the turn is checked by him and he calls triggs bet, then by the river, he knows that u have something pretty strong here, so to bet pot on river, knowing that u know what your doing, knowing you know he knows what he is doing, seems pointless if he hasn't got the flush. A small fd would bet the flop to rep the ace, and check the turn to try and get there as cheap as possible on river?

Once Trigg bets turn, he knows trigg has something decent, therefore I think it's why he has jammed on the river, to try and make him pay him off.

If he has been playing a TAG game thus far, then I can't see him spazzing out now? Especially as he knows that Trigg is real decent and a top thinking player?

Think he's be more incline to value KQ/1010 and at this level would probably check call other Ace X that were winning p/f.

I would still go for a fold, main reason would be that I can wait for better spots vs weaker opponents that you know will 100% gift you chips the more pressure u put on them, even tho it's a high buy in, I still think there are value players that play them, and I don't think Trigg is one of them.

Fascinating hand tho, post moarrrrrrrrrr pls x

Close this thread. Pretty sure it was done after 1 reply

this bit wins for me :D

keep it open!

this stuffs gold!

I actually did lol at that.

I do think it's the most intriguing hand on the first page though.

Why did you lol?

Lol

Pretty fucking rude imo. considering I've been nice to him all thread when what I should have been saying is wtf is wrong with this guy.

Aaron I'm sick of you - HU4ROLLZ? you can raise to find out where you every hand and that will probably work out just fine for you.

(http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee457/rockyrococo/Deer-popcorn.gif)

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0WEV7y8y88

I was serious when I said that, but I worded it a bit wrong I guess. I didn't mean literally 4 of the 20 best players or whatever. Just 4 elite players. Dubai, Keys and Marc ITT. Altogether 7 of the best players in Britain, surely a reasonable assessment?

Britain =/ the world tho

thanks for the kind words Jammmmmes :)up

I was just pretty tilted that aaron felt the need to mug the four of us after we all spent (wasted) our time explaining basic poker theory to him

None of you are that good though. Sure you've won a bit, but how much have you lost.....?

- Bramm is obv racist, 'NigDawG' what is with that?!
- Marc's Sharkscope said he was on 'super tilt' last time I saw. Can someone who tilts that much really be good?
- Trigg butchered this hand... like why didnt he re-re-raise pre? Stupid
- and you... play PLO for a living? May as well play roulette, at least it's got some skill

#jokers

god let's not get onto this depressing topic :D

Great post WotR

shame he can't recreate this form on his diary

I will not be reading / acknowledging that thread exists. It is dead to me. Sorry guys. gg wp.

Would you rather start a new thread? Or perhaps answer the fanmail here?

what a balla having 2 diaries

Yeh literally, so balla. Any thoughts on any other players you'd like to share with us WotR? First batch was intriguing and entertaining.

Great new thread title mate, really gives of a good opening impression!

So, i was wondering, now this is your official diary, shall i bookmark this thread and add all future comment here?


a few quick questions if you dont mind;

Brian or Michael Laudrup

Gary or Phil Neville

Stato or Yokozuna

Thanks mate.

Great to see this diary back on track.

Which would you prefer an eyebrow all the way around your face or no ears?

You can't shave the eyebrow. You can still hear with no ears

this. thort it was a great post oh diary pro Tom.

xx

just the clarify, did you mean that it extends all the way around the back of the head? like a demon mono-brow or does it go elsewhere on the face?

It shows how clueless you guys all are when you misplay AJ preflop and then write 17 pages of confusion over the hand because nobody knows what to do now. All this could have been saved by re raising preflop.

It would look like a large zero. Continuing down the cheeks to meet at the chin.

What are you thinking? You like the sound of the eyebrow I can tell...

Eyebrow that went all around the back of the head wouldn't be all that bad, def take that over no ears but the one you describe is horrific. No ears all day long.

do you wear glasses?

Nope

Luke's had a great scoop mate. Are you living together in Leeds?

Myself, Luke and Ben Martin yeh

Was doing a lot better before today, bricked an 10k schedule

Why are you trying to hijack WotR's diary?

Start a new thread ffs. Would be a good read though Captain Calldown.

aaron is a regular poster on another forum that I post in (won't spam it) and he hardly ever comments on PHA threads there.

Sorry that an interesting spot was mercillessly trolled by someone with nothing better to do

Could we not re raise on the flop? To end the hand there?  Or check back the turn, to keep the pot smaller on the river?