blonde poker forum

I've qualified for the Sky Viva Las Vegas at 9pm.

I've just unregged, as not sure if i can play it, and been told that the £1,100 value is forfeit.

Just fighting with C/S to get re-regged at the very least but this is ridiculous.  Why the hell does the site give me an unregister option if they're going to forfeit the value.

Really, really bad.

If you win a seat in a satellite you can't dereg. If you do you lose your buy in. Happened to me in a £30 HH. Sucks. They did renter me in it though!

That's what's just happened, but they shouldn't then give you an unregister option in the lobby.  Just glad I didn't do this with 5 minutes to go.

Now forced to play it, the re-registration being "a gesture of goodwill".  Bear in mind, not a single penny of added value came from Sky in these tournaments.  The prize pools were all player funded, so the alternative was to have £1,100 stolen from me by Sky.

Can't describe how appalled I am at situation.

real thin

I wish I was  ;)

Good luck in it!!!

Not the ideal preparation - a 20 minute battle with customer services, but thanks Dawn.

LOL @ "gesture of goodwill"

I would be making a different gesture if I was you.

Shutting my account.

I imagine the unreg option is for those who've directly bought in to the satellite. GL with it. Could be a good story...

In the interests of fairness, I've put the entire chat transcript up so that people can decide for themselves.  Some of the stuff in here scares me!

At the end of the day, I've lost nothing, except a great deal of faith in Sky Poker, which is a shame.

   27/05/2012 20:34:45        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Why are my funds not showing after unregistering from a tournament?
   27/05/2012 20:34:45        System        System      {PRESENTATION END}
   27/05/2012 20:34:45        System        System      {PRESENTATION BEGIN}
   27/05/2012 20:34:47        System        System      {PRESENTATION END}
   27/05/2012 20:34:47        System        System      {PRESENTATION TEXT} [Hi, you're chatting to Sky Nicola S, I'll be assisting you today]
   27/05/2012 20:34:59        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Hello
   27/05/2012 20:35:14        Agent        Nicola      Please can I take your user ID?
   27/05/2012 20:35:24        Customer        Curtis Ledger      TheSheriff
   27/05/2012 20:36:07        Agent        Nicola      For security please can I take [security questions - removed]?
   27/05/2012 20:36:16        Customer        Curtis Ledger      [removed]
   27/05/2012 20:36:19        Customer        Curtis Ledger      [removed]
   27/05/2012 20:37:01        Agent        Nicola     Thanks, let me check
   27/05/2012 20:38:15        Agent        Nicola     I am showing that you won entry therefore did not pay to enter, is this right ?
   27/05/2012 20:38:35        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Yes, I satellited in from a quarter final
   27/05/2012 20:39:02        Customer        Curtis Ledger      So I did pay to enter, but only £52.50
   27/05/2012 20:39:44        Agent        Nicola     I am sorry you paid to enter the quarter final which you played, you then won entry to the next game, so there is nothing to refund.
   27/05/2012 20:40:29        Customer        Curtis Ledger      How can that be - I've won two tournaments from a cash buy-in?
   27/05/2012 20:40:43        Customer        Curtis Ledger      So I've won £1,100 on your site
   27/05/2012 20:40:48        Agent        Nicola      There is nothing to refund, you won entry , you didn't pay
   27/05/2012 20:41:17        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Of course I paid - please put me through to a supervisor - this is ridiculos
   27/05/2012 20:41:23        Customer        Curtis Ledger      ridiculous
   27/05/2012 20:42:04        Customer        Curtis Ledger      And I'm either going to get refunded or you can re-enter me back in the tournament.
   27/05/2012 20:42:10        Customer        Curtis Ledger      But this needs sorting before 9pm
   27/05/2012 20:42:45        Customer        Curtis Ledger      And I'm about to post on blondepoker about this, so will be some very bad PR if this doesn't get sorted.
   27/05/2012 20:43:06        Agent        Nicola     I wont be able to refund you, do you want me to re-enter you. ?
   27/05/2012 20:43:34        Customer        Curtis Ledger      For now, yes, but I want to speak to a supervisor aswell
   27/05/2012 20:43:56        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Please show me the T&Cs that prevent me from unregistering an taking the cash
   27/05/2012 20:45:10        Agent        Nicola    I am shortly going to pass you to a manager
   27/05/2012 20:46:07        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Am I reregistered yet?
   27/05/2012 20:46:28        Agent        Nicola      Please bear with us
   27/05/2012 20:47:31        System        System      [Joe] JOINED SESSION 
   27/05/2012 20:47:44        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Hello Joe
   27/05/2012 20:47:56        Agent        Joe     Hi, you have been transferred to Joe, I am the Duty Manager this evening, how can I help?
   27/05/2012 20:48:40        Customer        Curtis Ledger      The previous person has told me that my £1,100 entry is simply 'forfeit' if I unregister, but it has a cash value of £1,100
   27/05/2012 20:49:14        Customer        Curtis Ledger      She claims I didn't pay for it, but I bought into a Qtr final with cash and then won two tournaments, so how does it not have cash value?
   27/05/2012 20:49:30        Customer        Curtis Ledger      And why does the software give me the option to unregister if this is not the case?
   27/05/2012 20:49:52        Agent        Joe     It would only have a cash value of £1100 to be refunded if you actually paid that buy in yourself, if we have paid itt on your behalf as a prize from a satellite then you would not be due this sum as an alternative to the seat as the prize was the seat.
   27/05/2012 20:50:03        Agent        Joe     *it
   27/05/2012 20:50:37        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Please point me to the T&Cs in respect of this, as this is ridiculous.
   27/05/2012 20:50:50        Agent        Joe      " Please note that if you've won entry to a tournament via a satellite and then cancel the registration, you won't receive any money back for the cancellation as your entry was of no monetary value. If you are unable to make the tournament then please co
   27/05/2012 20:50:50        Agent              ntact Customer Care and we may be able to make alternative arrangements. " - article 1144
   27/05/2012 20:51:10        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Every other site would honour this as cash, as I've effectively won two tournaments, funded by the buyin of others. Sky has added nothing to the prizepool.
   27/05/2012 20:51:47        Customer        Curtis Ledger      In that case please re-register me before 9pm and do something about showing the option to unregister.
   27/05/2012 20:52:20        Customer        Curtis Ledger      I'll take this up elsewhere on the forums but I'm not forfeiting the value without one hell of a fight
   27/05/2012 20:52:46        Customer        Curtis Ledger      And, by the way, I don't see that clause in the VLV T&Cs
   27/05/2012 20:54:17        Agent        Joe     I'd not be able to comment on any other sites terms and conditions in an official capacity, but in my experience of playing poker on other sites I have never seen this to be the case. Your comments are noted, but there isn't anything that we feel we need
   27/05/2012 20:54:17        Agent              to do about the option to unregister. The value of your prize is £0.00 as it was a free seat that you did not pay for. We are just re-registering you now on this occasion...
   27/05/2012 20:54:51        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Is it possible to get an email of this chat transcript?
   27/05/2012 20:55:15        Customer        Curtis Ledger      The fact that you quote the value as £0.00 is totally inaccurate.
   27/05/2012 20:55:34        Customer        Curtis Ledger      And worthy of further debate.
   27/05/2012 20:55:50        Customer        Curtis Ledger      In the meantime, thank you for reregistering me, at the very least.
   27/05/2012 20:56:10        Agent        Joe    Yes, certainly, please confirm the email address you would like it to be sent to. Can I just ask, how much of your own money did you contribute to this particular seat buy-in (not the buy-in for the satellite)?
   27/05/2012 20:58:21        Customer        Curtis Ledger      I paid £52.50 for a Qtr final, won entry into a £240 semi, and won the seat from there. However, as there's no added value in the tournament from Sky, this is basically the same as winning cash tournaments.
   27/05/2012 20:58:34        Customer        Curtis Ledger      Please email to [email addy]
   27/05/2012 21:00:23        Agent        Joe      As you did not mention anything you contributed to the buy-in for this seat (which we have now re-registered you for as a gesture of goodwill), I hope this explains why I referred to it having a value of £0.00 - I will email off a copy of this transcript
   27/05/2012 21:00:23        Agent              within 10 to 15 minutes of the end of this session. Is there anything else I can help with?
   27/05/2012 21:00:53        Customer        Curtis Ledger      no thank you
   27/05/2012 21:01:15        Agent        Joe      You're welcome, thanks for Chatting, bye for now.
   27/05/2012 21:01:32        System        System      [Joe] LEFT SESSION 
   27/05/2012 21:01:32        System        System      END OF SESSION 
   27/05/2012 21:01:32        System        System      CUSTOMER LEFT SESSION 
   27/05/2012 21:01:32        System        System      [Nicola] LEFT SESSION 

I had the same thing last year, unregged 5 minutes prior, tbf they did instantly put me back in .

Was rough as hell though and bubbled  >:(

I posted about this very issue here (http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=51245.msg1289395#msg1289395) back in January 2011. It's ridiculous that this has not been changed yet!

I know you can unreg on stars, but pretty sure you can't on ongame.   So it can't be standard to let you unreg.

They obviously shouldn't let you unreg if it isn't allowed though.  That is rubbish

The thing that scares me about that transcript is the manager stating that your satellite win has no cash value!

It's not exactly industry standard to refund in cash if you win a sat and unreg. On stars, they only give you Tournament Dollars which can't be withdrawn (but can be sold), and I don't know of any other sites that do this.

Either way, that's still ELEVEN HUNDRED QUID of players money that has been "forfeited" according to Joe. No mate, that's £1100 which belongs to the players, not Sky. Are Sky going to add the £1100 to the prize pool? I doubt it.

I was typing in a rush as you can imagine so I didn't mean to say other sites would pay as cash (e.g. Stars would give you T$).  I meant to say cash value at the time.

The point I was trying to make is that no-one I know would let you un-reg and then say you had nothing to show for it.

good luck good luck, you have still got a playable stack.

Hoping for a good news story when I get up in the morning

Lost a few with KK vs AA very early on, but think I lost the minimum.  Had a weird 'spidey senses' feeling I was up against AA for some reason, and played it like a wuss as a result.

Any other line, and I think I go bust eventually, the way it played out.

No fairytale.  Bit of a rollercoaster, doubled up winning a race, lost a race next hand to get back to a bowl and then lost with A6 vs A5 AIPF for the rest.

Still, didn't exactly cost much for the attempt.

This is a really good point.  Regardless of what they decide about my right to cash out the value should be retained in the tournament.  Sky basically say here that they will keep it.

It's a different situation if there's added value, but the £1,100 here came direct from player buyins.

If you unreg and the value of the seat is then added to the prizepool that wouldn't be fair to you but at least it wouldn't be blatant theft by the poker site and the amount of seats awarded / prizepool would be unchanged .
This sounds a terrible restriction that the site put upon satellites , what if you were ill or had a major reason that you couldn't play ? Are they are just basically saying fu hard luck, play or lose the money that bought the seat cos we will have it otherwise ?

it's always fun to see if they give the money back to those who unregged.
there was another satellite qualifier from the same sat as the Sheriff who unregged and then wasn't re-regged.


<3 moronic systems.

That was pretty much the outcome, yes.

If it was upfront then fair enough, but it appears to buried in a t&c clause that I haven't found yet (it's not in the specific t&cs for Viva Las Vegas) and there's absolutely no warning of what is about to happen when you unreg.

while i understand your annoyance the rules are the rules and it is on their website...however...more annoying was what happened to me last year, i won through to the next level of a satelitte after paying money...the next stage was cancelled as there was not 5 registered players and i received no credit or tokens...i had to phone (as they told me on chat they could not deal with it) and argue that you couldn't just give me nothing as skypoker cancelled the tournament...afterv saying my prize was the tournament entry fee but not understanding my arguement that i hadn't received it because they cancelled the tournament they finally entered me in to the next nights tournament and low and behold the same thing happened again and i had to phone up and go through it all again. The third night i got to play it. The easy answer for me was not to play their site and while i am still registered i very rarely use it these days (two games this year i think).

vote with your feet...there could be massive improvements they could introduce but they don't seem interested.

http://help.skybet.com/display/4/kb/article.aspx?aid=2273&n=1&docid=2755&tab=search

Cancelling Satellite-won Tournament entries
 



Please note that if you've won entry to a tournament via a satellite and then cancel the registration, you won't receive any money back for the cancellation as your entry was of no monetary value. If you are unable to make the tournament then please contact Customer Care and we may be able to make alternative arrangements.

Sorry this link

http://help.skybet.com/display/4/kb/article.aspx?aid=1144&n=1&docid=1666&tab=search

TROLOLOLOLOLOLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

So the fundamental issue is that a group of players can make cash deposits on the site, play a tournament funded entirely from these deposits, and then Sky can turn around and say that the prize has no cash value, and keep the funds.

They then point you to a clause buried somewhere in their T&Cs that basically makes up this rule as justification.

Interesting logic.  Might be worth following up on this outside of Sky.

I'm hoping that tikay will have some sort of view on this when he has a moment to post.  He's involved with Sky, obviously, but he's also a player and I'm pretty sure he'd have an issue with this logic if it took place on another site.

They always just say you're welcome to play elsewhere if you don't like it.


There are myriad things they do which aren't just against industry standard but are completely against logic and reason. Much of them are just short term thinking.

The fact that you can't take the cash value of a satellite seat, whilst not industry standard, is fine imo.

Referring to a seat as having no monetary value, is strictly speaking incorrect, but is of no consequence given the point above.

Having an 'unregister' button for satellite qualifiers is a clear mistake, and needs rectification.

100% this.

I wouldn't play in an online sat which doesn't let me take the value if I want it.

Howevr, as long as this is clearly indicated before you play it is fair enough.

But allowing you to unregister but not give you any value is ridic.

High stakes live PLO cash game player Neil Giblin speaks the truth here.

<3 PokerStars

$T for everything like this, which is how it should be

Pretty sure this all comes about purely from technical limitations of the software, rather than commercial decisions by Sky.

There's an unregister button (because people who buy in have to be able to unreg if they want) but the software can't distinguish between those who bought in and those who satted, and so can't disable the button for those who satted in.

Obviously less than ideal, and is why I'd always check T&C's for things as it can be non-standard at Sky.

hit the nail on the head sir.

it is the same reason for most things. the secondary level of decision making generally seems to then go for +money decisions for sky.


The idea that you forfeit and that you're 'ticket' or 'entry' or 'prize' is not worth anything is such a joke it's beyond belief.

TBF though Sheriff did come last in the tourney, so maybe just sick read on Sky's part?

rofl

If the software couldn't tell the difference between a cash buyin and a satty buyin, a satty player who unregged would be credited with the tournament buyin in cash...

had this problem in the past (i had not unregged tho)
got no where with on line support

phoned customer support  (dont know if same people or not ) got myself un regged but entered into one following week of same value that i could play

DTD credited my account when the feeder I min-fed into didn't run. Simple transaction, I emailed to point out the issue, they replied in minutes.
Top marks on that one.