Title: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: TightEnd on June 13, 2012, 09:20:59 AM After good feedback on re-entries, blonde members are requested to vote in the poll above, and also post/give opinions on DTD Payout Structures
Poll Options are as follows: 1 Keep existing DTD Payout structure (i.e. min cash 1.5x buy-in and pay 10% field of field paid) 2 Flatten payouts, specifically 1st and 2nd to enable higher min cash (2x buy-in) 3 Flatten payouts MORE to enable BOTH higher min cash (2x buy-in) AND pay higher % of field (e.g. pay 12%) Thanks Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Junior Senior on June 13, 2012, 09:28:47 AM Good idea for a poll. What sort of sample size is needed and percentage of preference for an option is needed to affect a change by DTD. I presume Rob and Simon have asked for these polls to be created?
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: TightEnd on June 13, 2012, 09:32:33 AM Good idea for a poll. What sort of sample size is needed and percentage of preference for an option is needed to affect a change by DTD. I presume Rob and Simon have asked for these polls to be created? Yes. I don't know sample sizes and what margins are needed I do know that they read all opinions, and its an important factor in decisions they are contemplating Clearly we as a group can provide high quality feedback from a whole range of different sorts of players..... Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: AndrewT on June 13, 2012, 09:48:50 AM What's the existing DTD policy on deals?
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: TightEnd on June 13, 2012, 09:52:22 AM What's the existing DTD policy on deals? If the GTD prize pool exceeds £50,000 then No deals permitted Under that, chip count deals are permitted My own personal contention, coming from someone who watches and reports on a lot of the finals, is the combination of no deals in the bigger tournaments plus top heavy payouts produces stodgy laddering play However, what the players think matters, not me! Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: George2Loose on June 13, 2012, 09:54:50 AM Kepp as is pls
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: bobAlike on June 13, 2012, 09:58:43 AM Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Da Bookie on June 13, 2012, 09:59:35 AM Not got a big opinion either way to be honest on this. I think paying no more than 10% of the field is right regardless of how you carve it up.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: smashedagain on June 13, 2012, 10:01:20 AM I hate the idea of paying more players but would like to see the min cash increased in 2 day+ events to cover costs of at least 1 nights hotel costs. This really applies to the £150 as £300/£500 just about covers expenses.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Junior Senior on June 13, 2012, 10:37:45 AM I hate the idea of paying more players but would like to see the min cash increased in 2 day+ events to cover costs of at least 1 nights hotel costs. This really applies to the £150 as £300/£500 just about covers expenses. Me too. Whilst I quite often manage to only muster a min cash I don't want to see the number of prizes increased as 10% is easily enough I do however think that a min cash should be higher, especially when players have travelled, stayed over or have had to drive back for a second or third day. No need to increase min cash on one day events IMO Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: welsh1980 on June 13, 2012, 10:56:30 AM Imo 10% of the field payed is fine, but I do believe that min cash should be increased as it covers costs.
I also believe that flattening out the pay structure will increase play, therefore earlier finishes (hopefully). Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Eso Kral on June 13, 2012, 11:00:45 AM Kepp as is pls Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: skolsuper on June 13, 2012, 11:04:41 AM It needs flattening for reasons I think I've posted before in another thread. This is not gonna be a fashionable view, but having thought about it some more I think paying a few more players will be better for everyone too. I snap-voted for the middle option tho, dunno if I can change it.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: TightEnd on June 13, 2012, 11:09:01 AM It needs flattening for reasons I think I've posted before in another thread. This is not gonna be a fashionable view, but having thought about it some more I think paying a few more players will be better for everyone too. I snap-voted for the middle option tho, dunno if I can change it. James I remember that post, but couldn't find it Any idea where it was posted? ty Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Karabiner on June 13, 2012, 11:12:39 AM When I discussed this subject with Simon a few months ago when the "deal or no deal" thread was current he was adamant that the top prize would not be reduced under any circumstances. He also said that he had not seen skolsuper's excellent post in that thread detailing the flatter payout structures as used in GUKPT events.
Unless his stance has altered this whole discussion might well be redundant. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: TightEnd on June 13, 2012, 11:14:25 AM DTD have asked for the poll to go up Ralph
All views required. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: bobby1 on June 13, 2012, 11:20:49 AM I have voted for 2. One thing that strikes me every time I read the updates is I wouldn't play too many comps when a good finish resulted in so little reward in relation to the buy in.
Maybe I am missing something here too but it has to be in DTD benefit for the players that cash at the bottom end of the pay scale to get more cash. The top prize will still be attractive but you will benefit from more reinvestment from players that cashed at the bottom end that at the moment prob don't win much after exes for playing well for a long time to get a small cash. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Doobs on June 13, 2012, 11:24:00 AM Could you consider changing the poll? I am for flattening the structure at the top, but that is only to flatten payouts at or near the final table. I am very much against changing the min cash. Upping the min cash will just increase the painful stalling phase of tournaments.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: mfcrocker on June 13, 2012, 11:36:00 AM Option #2, though I don't see it happening - DTD clearly love their headline figures.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: LonOhRay on June 13, 2012, 11:59:21 AM I don't care for min cash 1.01x or 3x, although I am all for creating longer bubbles.
Just flatten final tables from 30%17%%10% top 3 or whatever it is in 1000 runner MTTs. It's rare for finals to have average >15 bigs deep anyway so flipping for huge buy-in pay jumps is not ideal for majority of players. Only benefits the headlines and Rastafish. So just flatten final table pay outs, not even jumps obv just not as absurd as they are Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: outragous76 on June 13, 2012, 12:08:32 PM dont pay more people
thats all id ask Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Mohican on June 13, 2012, 12:10:09 PM Could you consider changing the poll? I am for flattening the structure at the top, but that is only to flatten payouts at or near the final table. I am very much against changing the min cash. Upping the min cash will just increase the painful stalling phase of tournaments. This makes most sense to me but what do I know? Only ever see final tables on live streams/tellybox thingy.Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: skolsuper on June 13, 2012, 12:15:03 PM It needs flattening for reasons I think I've posted before in another thread. This is not gonna be a fashionable view, but having thought about it some more I think paying a few more players will be better for everyone too. I snap-voted for the middle option tho, dunno if I can change it. James I remember that post, but couldn't find it Any idea where it was posted? ty http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=56711.msg1505485#msg1505485 edit: not actually especially relevant now I read it back, but I make the point at the end that a flatter payout structure will reduce players' tendency to deal. It also should reduce the icm penalty for getting in a showdown and therefore incentivise looser play, more showdowns and bustouts and therefore deeper, more entertaining poker. Thirdly, as someone mentioned in the thread, it is better for the club the more evenly the prize money is distributed as more players will get money to reinvest in future tournaments/cups of tea. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: tonys nephew on June 13, 2012, 12:31:28 PM keep it as it is.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: jakally on June 13, 2012, 01:30:39 PM Could you consider changing the poll? I am for flattening the structure at the top, but that is only to flatten payouts at or near the final table. I am very much against changing the min cash. Upping the min cash will just increase the painful stalling phase of tournaments. Agree broadly with this. I don't mind tweaking the min-cash up a little, but not to the extent of taking too much money from the final. Flatten the top 8 places though. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Tommy Bingham on June 13, 2012, 01:44:30 PM I have mentioned my views in previous threads, really hope this one is implemented if good feedback comes in.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: flushthemout on June 13, 2012, 01:48:45 PM dont pay more people thats all id ask correct, play ftw Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: typhoon13 on June 13, 2012, 01:50:36 PM Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Tommy Bingham on June 13, 2012, 01:57:04 PM (UPDATE FROM PREVIOUS POST ON ANOTHER TOPIC)
From a customer point of view, for tournaments that are 2-5 days, making only 1.2 on investment is sometimes disappointing. Only as it doesn't cover expenses - Petrol, Hotels, Food, Drinks, and occasional spews on roulette or that stupid Pharaohs Fortune! People nit up stupidly and ruins the play and momentum of the tournament.. This payment structure is pretty standard across the European board, but this is why play is so slow pre and post bubble. People want to make there money back. For a tournament over 2 Days, I don't see a problem with min cash being 2X. I think the bubble and play before will last longer, but the better players left will take advantage of it, leaving the nitty guys less space later on in the torney. It would give more play from 2 tables to the final. No 3BigBlind limp/fold player on the final and no guy with 9bigs set mining with deuces, who wants to ladder. And keep laddering. And then ladder somemore. The important thing to remember is, nowadays the majority of players either travel from a distance (unable or difficult to drive back home) to make tournaments at DTD or are back/staked and sold a % of themselves to even play atall. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Cf on June 13, 2012, 03:56:30 PM In the ukipt I min cashed. Not only did I receive more than I would from a dtd min cash I cashed in the first place.
I've always thought dtd was too top heavy for my liking. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Cf on June 13, 2012, 04:00:32 PM And just remembered another payout thing.
Tournament is guaranteed equiv to 1,000 players. Tournament gets 500 entries. Currently pays top 50. IMO it should pay top 100. Based on how many players were needed to make up the prize pool. Another example of making it top heavy. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: pokerfan on June 13, 2012, 04:10:07 PM In the ukipt I min cashed. Not only did I receive more than I would from a dtd min cash I cashed in the first place. I've always thought dtd was too top heavy for my liking. The UKIPT got a bit of stick for being short up top :D Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Skippy on June 13, 2012, 08:45:05 PM Paying 10% is a good number.
A min-cash should be 2x the buy in. The nut solution is to keep a steep payout structure (maybe a little less steep) , but allow deals. Nobody seems to want to bring deals back which is a shame. I'm amazed that people can't see deals are more important in bigger comps than smaller comps- the current policy of allowing people to deal when there's £500 on the line but not allowing them to deal for £15000 seems very silly to me. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: DEVIL on June 13, 2012, 09:23:54 PM I think it's a little more complicated than the 3 voting options. 10% is the perfect pay out percentage, any higher and it will be too flat (like UKIPT). 1.5 times buy in as a pay out at the bottom end is fine. Where the slight increase should occur is when you get in the top 5%, rather than only getting the significant jump once on the final table. The pay out structure should take into account the number of players, with fields over 600 you could introduce a cap on the top prizes, the big downside to this is the lower top prize may not look as appealing.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Slykllist on June 14, 2012, 12:05:35 PM Found this really difficult to vote on as there are other issues to take into consideration and for me it goes hand in hand with the 'no deals' policy.
I think min cash at 1.5 is fine but have no problem with some flattening at the top to see more significant ladder jumps lower down. If deals were allowed (my personal preference) then I think the current structure is fine and would encourage it being kept heavy up top. With no deals being allowed, it does led to 'stodgey' play in the later stages so this being the case, I think I can see a benefit to flattening the payout structure up top. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: pokerfan on June 14, 2012, 12:25:11 PM Re the no deals, if it's done privately no one can stop you.
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Tommy Bingham on June 14, 2012, 03:06:04 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club.
Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: istrabraq on June 14, 2012, 03:35:52 PM As a travelling player I would like 2 see double your buy I'n for mini cash . Eg played black belt at dtd last year 2 days expenses came 33 got 133 pound was I think 750 I'n comp so really these online comps they put on live beware of payout structure before you play them .
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: smashedagain on June 14, 2012, 03:50:02 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. Did you hear (note not here) this from a member of Dtd direct Tommy? I know you ain't one to make stuff up but I will do everyone a favour and email them details of a deal involving some people I would notions see banning :)Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Tommy Bingham on June 14, 2012, 04:03:48 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. Did you hear (note not here) this from a member of Dtd direct Tommy? I know you ain't one to make stuff up but I will do everyone a favour and email them details of a deal involving some people I would notions see banning :)Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Yes buddy, it was from Simon (TD) directly on the 500 Deepstack final. I don't know if this rule has changed, as the 500 was the first torney that implemented to NO DEAL policy. But was definatly made clear before play began on the final. Which, if you gona make NO DEALS, is a fair enough point to make. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: istrabraq on June 14, 2012, 04:10:35 PM Why would 2/3 players do a deal that suits the Players talk about it with risk of bieng banned from the best cardroom I'n uk . I'm sure dtd know it goes on
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: welsh1980 on June 14, 2012, 05:06:12 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. Did you hear (note not here) this from a member of Dtd direct Tommy? I know you ain't one to make stuff up but I will do everyone a favour and email them details of a deal involving some people I would notions see banning :)Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Yes buddy, it was from Simon (TD) directly on the 500 Deepstack final. I don't know if this rule has changed, as the 500 was the first torney that implemented to NO DEAL policy. But was definatly made clear before play began on the final. Which, if you gona make NO DEALS, is a fair enough point to make. After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. This is true..... It was said directly to me 1st ????? Then the remaining playersYes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: smashedagain on June 14, 2012, 05:34:09 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. Did you hear (note not here) this from a member of Dtd direct Tommy? I know you ain't one to make stuff up but I will do everyone a favour and email them details of a deal involving some people I would notions see banning :)Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Yes buddy, it was from Simon (TD) directly on the 500 Deepstack final. I don't know if this rule has changed, as the 500 was the first torney that implemented to NO DEAL policy. But was definatly made clear before play began on the final. Which, if you gona make NO DEALS, is a fair enough point to make. After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. This is true..... It was said directly to me 1st ????? Then the remaining playersYes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: _oldgit_ on June 14, 2012, 05:44:14 PM Personally i think if you get to the cash stages,it would be nice to get enough to cover expenses of travel and hotel. So its option 2 for me
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: JK on June 14, 2012, 05:48:51 PM I like it as it is tbh, but can imagine its fairly intense in the tournaments with no deals.
All comps have fairly big jumps, but thats what Poker players like generally. The only problem is without deals, it means you're normally playing heads up for 10k+. With the fact that whatever comp it is, its going to be fairly shooty by this point (not DTDs fault by any means), it means you're just playing a turbo HUSnG for alot of money. That said, Id love to be in a position where this mattered lol Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: welsh1980 on June 14, 2012, 06:02:02 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. Did you hear (note not here) this from a member of Dtd direct Tommy? I know you ain't one to make stuff up but I will do everyone a favour and email them details of a deal involving some people I would notions see banning :)Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. Yes buddy, it was from Simon (TD) directly on the 500 Deepstack final. I don't know if this rule has changed, as the 500 was the first torney that implemented to NO DEAL policy. But was definatly made clear before play began on the final. Which, if you gona make NO DEALS, is a fair enough point to make. After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. This is true..... It was said directly to me 1st ????? Then the remaining playersYes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. But I was happy with no deal this time as I had locked up nice sum the month before. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: MC on June 14, 2012, 10:19:35 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. This seems ridic to me. If I make it heads up with a good mate who I trust and don't want to flip for £30k with, gg. If they want to ban two loyal members for that, wp. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: smashedagain on June 14, 2012, 10:38:41 PM After being in various NO DEAL tournaments. It is stressed that if DTD here of a 'Outside' deal being made, play will resume, but the player(s) will be permanent barred from the club. Yes, the deal will go ahead as agreed they cannot stop that, but you will not be allowed into the club again. This seems ridic to me. If I make it heads up with a good mate who I trust and don't want to flip for £30k with, gg. If they want to ban two loyal members for that, wp. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: DTD-ACES on June 15, 2012, 02:43:18 AM Thank you for all the feedback so far on Payouts and Re-Entry. We will be making some tweaks over the summer period to our Payouts, Re-entry and Late Registration, as usual there will be players that agree and disagree whatever decisions we make over the coming weeks. What I can say now is that we want to have the fairest prize payout possible and we also do not want to set GTE's that are based on players re-entering. It's the summer period now, we have Euro 2012 and Vegas, so its a good time to take stock and listen to different opinions.
Just be clear on our policies on prize money distribution- - on GTE's less than £50,000 we allow deals on based ICM Chipcount - on GTE's at £50,000 where Dusk Till Dawn inevitably "pad" the prizepool through our satelittes - deals are not permitted Cheers Aces Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Junior Senior on June 15, 2012, 08:59:41 AM Was a deal done in the last 150 between Eso and Gill? Was that ICM?
Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: welsh1980 on June 15, 2012, 09:20:55 AM Was a deal done in the last 150 between Eso and Gill? Was that ICM? icm deal was done because it was 40k not 50kTitle: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Eso Kral on June 15, 2012, 09:43:40 AM Was a deal done in the last 150 between Eso and Gill? Was that ICM? Can confirm ICM deal was done and the reason I ended with exactly £11k was that I left the rest as a tip for the dealers and Jon also rounded his down.Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: Tommy Bingham on June 15, 2012, 09:51:17 AM Was a deal done in the last 150 between Eso and Gill? Was that ICM? Can confirm ICM deal was done and the reason I ended with exactly £11k was that I left the rest as a tip for the dealers and Jon also rounded his down.Yep. Title: Re: Poll: DTD Payout Structures. Your votes please Post by: millidonk on June 15, 2012, 04:41:02 PM You should have given it all to the dealers!
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