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Title: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: PizzicatoXev on July 23, 2012, 04:17:26 AM Am usually pretty good with these but this one had me a little stumped...
Have had several people I respect come up with different answers so figured I would see what you guys think... No real background on this one... I lost a 1.5m chip flip at 12500/25000 to leave me with 10BB but have played solidly since with none of my open shoves being called. PokerStars Hand #83718696297: Tournament #590010447, $100+$9 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XLIII (17500/35000) - 2012/07/22 22:26:34 ET Table '590010447 177' 9-max Seat #7 is the button Seat 2: PizzicatoXev (455049 in chips) Seat 3: binhoeiji (2032658 in chips) Seat 4: Thielon123 (701861 in chips) Seat 5: meteze (675096 in chips) Seat 6: Gruaiggorm (402353 in chips) Seat 7: GS_LT (920686 in chips) Seat 8: Kabira (715286 in chips) Seat 9: grigorq77 (1978011 in chips) PizzicatoXev: posts the ante 4375 binhoeiji: posts the ante 4375 Thielon123: posts the ante 4375 meteze: posts the ante 4375 Gruaiggorm: posts the ante 4375 GS_LT: posts the ante 4375 Kabira: posts the ante 4375 grigorq77: posts the ante 4375 Kabira: posts small blind 17500 grigorq77: posts big blind 35000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to PizzicatoXev [2d 2h] PizzicatoXev: Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: DMorgan on July 23, 2012, 05:48:53 AM Haven't looked at these numbers in a while but I think this is a pretty clear fold. Probably folding 55 too.
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: Rupert on July 23, 2012, 08:15:23 AM Haven't looked at these numbers in a while but I think this is a pretty clear fold. Probably folding 55 too. sounds good Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: TL900 on July 23, 2012, 10:35:54 AM ya snap fold, im prob 77+
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: pleno1 on July 23, 2012, 10:54:07 AM in these spots does 22 > 66/77 or not?
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: TL900 on July 23, 2012, 11:03:16 AM ya snap fold, im prob 77+ maybe 66+ thought we had more bb Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: TL900 on July 23, 2012, 11:10:31 AM in these spots does 22 > 66/77 or not? how can 22 > 66/77? Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: youthnkzR on July 23, 2012, 11:33:54 AM deffo fold.. 66+ is all in
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: MC on July 23, 2012, 01:10:51 PM in these spots does 22 > 66/77 or not? ^level????? 66+ sounds reasonable Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: rfgqqabc on July 23, 2012, 01:45:44 PM in these spots does 22 > 66/77 or not? how can 22 > 66/77? Must be an = sign right? In which case, its almost true Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: pleno1 on July 23, 2012, 02:32:38 PM no, was being retarded about wheel blockers rofl, but forgot counterfeits.
i iz fish yo. Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: dakky on July 23, 2012, 03:17:28 PM payouts?
I jam. You are shortstack, there is no1 about to bust on blinds or anything. Adding 20% to stack is significant. Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: PizzicatoXev on July 23, 2012, 07:53:28 PM payouts? 8th locked up for $3809 7th - $6436 6th - $9063 5th- 11690 4th - 15367 3rd - 22329 2nd - 31174 1st - 41507 I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: TL900 on July 24, 2012, 04:24:23 AM payouts? I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... reasons? Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: PizzicatoXev on July 24, 2012, 04:38:13 AM payouts? I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... reasons? Yeah wish I could answer that.../sigh Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: PizzicatoXev on July 24, 2012, 07:59:00 AM payouts? I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... reasons? Yeah wish I could answer that.../sigh Ok... Finally got to talk to him about it just now and he didn't realise it was an ft hand...lol We both ran it through an ICM calc and he came up with 88+ and I came up with JJ+ Ingame I shove wider than that so was deffo good to check that side out as it was even more of an icm fuck than I thought it was... Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: dakky on July 24, 2012, 11:15:54 AM payouts? I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... reasons? Yeah wish I could answer that.../sigh Ok... Finally got to talk to him about it just now and he didn't realise it was an ft hand...lol We both ran it through an ICM calc and he came up with 88+ and I came up with JJ+ Ingame I shove wider than that so was deffo good to check that side out as it was even more of an icm fuck than I thought it was... wow I really hate ICM. Needed the payouts to run it. Either way, fold if you're playing to ladder, jam to win imo. You get people to fold hands that are beating you 33-77 snap folds, 88 tanks- obv depends on image byt generally how loose are they going to call at FT for all the same reasons that ICM tells you to jam so tight: 99+ AKo AQs??? Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: TL900 on July 24, 2012, 02:17:27 PM payouts? I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... reasons? Yeah wish I could answer that.../sigh Ok... Finally got to talk to him about it just now and he didn't realise it was an ft hand...lol We both ran it through an ICM calc and he came up with 88+ and I came up with JJ+ Ingame I shove wider than that so was deffo good to check that side out as it was even more of an icm fuck than I thought it was... jeez, JJ+ seems mental tight. fucking ICM Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: rfgqqabc on July 24, 2012, 02:31:42 PM payouts? I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... reasons? Yeah wish I could answer that.../sigh Ok... Finally got to talk to him about it just now and he didn't realise it was an ft hand...lol We both ran it through an ICM calc and he came up with 88+ and I came up with JJ+ Ingame I shove wider than that so was deffo good to check that side out as it was even more of an icm fuck than I thought it was... wow I really hate ICM. Needed the payouts to run it. Either way, fold if you're playing to ladder, jam to win imo. You get people to fold hands that are beating you 33-77 snap folds, 88 tanks- obv depends on image byt generally how loose are they going to call at FT for all the same reasons that ICM tells you to jam so tight: 99+ AKo AQs??? ICM is there for a reason, jamming 22 is a disaster icm wise here, going for the win or not. These mistakes cost the most out of any situation. Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: dakky on July 24, 2012, 02:48:29 PM payouts? I folded and was fairly happy about it but when smokrokflock says its a def shove I have to consider it... reasons? Yeah wish I could answer that.../sigh Ok... Finally got to talk to him about it just now and he didn't realise it was an ft hand...lol We both ran it through an ICM calc and he came up with 88+ and I came up with JJ+ Ingame I shove wider than that so was deffo good to check that side out as it was even more of an icm fuck than I thought it was... wow I really hate ICM. Needed the payouts to run it. Either way, fold if you're playing to ladder, jam to win imo. You get people to fold hands that are beating you 33-77 snap folds, 88 tanks- obv depends on image byt generally how loose are they going to call at FT for all the same reasons that ICM tells you to jam so tight: 99+ AKo AQs??? ICM is there for a reason, jamming 22 is a disaster icm wise here, going for the win or not. These mistakes cost the most out of any situation. So we have 12bb 8 handed. At what point is jamming ok, 10bb? 8bb? 7bb? I don't think there is anything wrong with folding but bear in mind you're on 10bb after blinds have gone through, you have no FE on a re-steal and you will be desperate to see a pair then. You can't just jam any 2 OTB because it's unlikely to fold to you, but you might get a chance to jam wide from LP. Advantage - less people to get through Disadvantage - liable to be shoving something that could well be dominated. At least that would give yio 27-30% instead of 20% I guess in that spot.I suppose in theory you could get a genuine hand but I am jaded and haven't luckboxxed good hands at the optimum time such as this for a long time! Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: Nit Tendencies on July 24, 2012, 06:22:58 PM foooooooooooooooold!
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: SubZERO on July 25, 2012, 06:39:53 AM fold and its not that close imo
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: LonOhRay on July 25, 2012, 08:31:37 PM Who is Smokrokflock anyway? Sounds like some chancer to me
I really need to open ICM calcs some more based on this Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: cambridgealex on July 25, 2012, 10:39:39 PM Who is Smokrokflock anyway? Sounds like some chancer to me I really need to open ICM calcs some more based on this Elio Fox. Won WSOPE main event last year beating Moorman heads up. Confirmed absolute sicko. Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: LonOhRay on July 25, 2012, 11:43:04 PM Who is Smokrokflock anyway? Sounds like some chancer to me I really need to open ICM calcs some more based on this Elio Fox. Won WSOPE main event last year beating Moorman heads up. Confirmed absolute sicko. Ye, abs chancer Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: pleno1 on July 26, 2012, 12:31:15 AM Hahaha
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: TL900 on July 26, 2012, 08:21:15 AM Who is Smokrokflock anyway? Sounds like some chancer to me I really need to open ICM calcs some more based on this oh the levels this guy is on Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: dakky on July 26, 2012, 09:58:21 AM so, what is the cutoff for BB that we jam 22 UTG 8 handed?
Title: Re: Shove/Fold FT spot Post by: DMorgan on July 26, 2012, 12:03:30 PM About 1.8ish
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