Title: Is this terrible? (2) Post by: Kilgore_Trout on August 27, 2012, 08:38:12 PM Here goes for a second installment of possibly poor play...
£30 buy in live tournament. I have around 22,000 chips and I'm in BB again, blinds are 300, 600. UTG (villain) with around 16,000 limps in. Villain limps in a lot from all positions with hands as varied as J3 to AA. Two other players limp in. SB folds. I have KQoff (no diamonds) and check. I'm possibly ahead and could raise but most raises get called on this table and I dont want to have to play a big pot out of position. Flop comes Ks 4d 2d. Happy days it seems. I check hoping someone else will bet with a worse king or just trying to steal the pot from late position if it goes check check check. UTG bets 1,000. One player calls, one folds. I make it 4,000. UTG+1 insta calls (which should have been more of a warning on reflection) and the other player folds. So theres around 12,000 in the pot, around what villain has left and I have a bit more. The turn is the 8d completing the possible flush draw. I haven't seen UTG bet a flush draw up to now and I'm guessing he's not that sort of a player. I think he most likely has a king and he's probably scared of the flush. I decide to shove thinking he might fold a better hand like two pair as its for his tournament life. He might hero call with a worse hand than mine like KJ, K10 - especialy if he has the king of diamonds. UTG thinks for a while and calls. Did I do a bad thing? Title: Re: Is this terrible? (2) Post by: discomonkey on August 27, 2012, 08:51:39 PM i dont think you can be trying to get him to fold better AND call worse, that seems tough to do.
i would more often than not lead this flop there are lots of worse hands to get called by, especially given the nature of the tournament/table. the turn seems a terrible card both if u are trying to get value and for the strength of your hand. the turn is a pretty tough spot and i think i would be inclined to cehck/decide, see what he bets, if he bets etc, Title: Re: Is this terrible? (2) Post by: Kilgore_Trout on August 27, 2012, 09:02:18 PM Yes i think with the insta call of the check raise on the flop and then with the horrible turn card I panicked a bit.
On the turn I was thinking if I check and he bets what do I do? Check raising the flop and folding the turn seems pretty weak. I suppose pray he checks it also but then I have the same problem on the river. Title: Re: Is this terrible? (2) Post by: discomonkey on August 27, 2012, 09:07:03 PM if he cehcks back you have less of a problem as his range can be perceived as somewhat weaker.
Title: Re: Is this terrible? (2) Post by: muckthenuts on August 28, 2012, 12:09:36 AM Checking pre seems ok to me tbf, though raising for value probably preferable.
Lead flop, we probably have the best hand and have no need to overrep our 1 pair by check raising. As played the snap call is probably an indication of weakness, and probably i just shove turn now knowing he won't fold any worse k's cos it's live and will prob call with a few pair + fd hands he's now made too. Title: Re: Is this terrible? (2) Post by: Kilgore_Trout on August 29, 2012, 08:05:17 PM OK so not too far off what I did then.
As played it turned out villain had K4 for top two pair on the flop and called my turn shove after some deliberation. Maybe I was just unlucky here? On reflection I think maybe I was best to just check/call the flop then try to get to showdown as cheaply as possible. Or maybe that's missing value when he has KJ/K10? Title: Re: Is this terrible? (2) Post by: cambridgealex on August 29, 2012, 09:23:44 PM Check pre is good/standard
Bet flop>>>checking Not sure about check/call vs check/raise, I never really get into these spots as I'd never check top pair good kicker in the first place. Basically by raising you don't really know whether you've been called by a better or worse hand do you? And when the turn comes you don't know what to do. By taking a simple bet bet bet line you can confidently assume you're ahead until you get raised. That's why I wouldn't c/raise the flop because you really don't know whether you're in front or not. |