blonde poker forum

Cash game.

Stakes and stacks unimportant.

Utg raises from seat 10. Seat 1 folds. Before Seat 2 acts Seat 3 folds, Seat 4 calls and Seat 5 calls. Then the dealer realises that Seat 2 hasn't acted.

What actions are open to Seat 2?

All options open.
Can call only.
Hand dead.

Hand is dead unless it's in his local card room and he's a regular

If there's 2 actions in most places they'll kill the hand in question which imo is effing ridic. Surprised there's not more angles around this rule cos it's certainly exploitable

the ruling is the hand is dead with two actions after you've missed your action, certainly everywhere in the UK where this ruling has been sought in identical circumstances

Depends if everybody in the game is anal or are reasonable.

As it happens its seat 2 that called for the floor to make a ruling

Surely a club / game specific rule.

Because this very thing happened to me in Luton-G (& I was the "Seat 2") I know that their Rule USED to be that my hand is dead.

It was a while back, when I was at that age where I was prepared to argue about such trivialities, so I asked "upon what basis can an innocent party be penalised?".

The reply was that I must have had time to draw the Dealers attention to the domino effect behind me, & as I failed so to do, & thus gained an advantage, my hand was dead.

The date, in case you are interested, was August 9th, 2006. I recall it so vividly because Karma came to my rescue, & I chopped the Tourney.

Thin as thin gets, but seamlessly contextualised.

I was always under the impression that it was 3 actions as opposed to 2.

But it's one of those where I think a little common sense has to be applied.

If the UTG player snaps out a day dream as the dealer is giving the big blind their option then yes, hand obviously dead.

And as a dealer if you see someone realise someone has acted after them and they don't call attention to it then hand dead.

Otherwise though if it's only a few actions (3, prob 4 at the most) and the impression is the whole thing was a bit of an accident then i'd be inclined to roll the action back and treat the other bets as out of turn.

People that are willing to roll back a couple of actions. Would it make a difference to your opinion of the hand if someone behind raised?

Nope.

3 passive actions (folding), 2 active (calling/ raising)..

Opens the game up to a whole load more angle shooting.

For example, you have a marginal hand UTG you can now simply cover your cards with your hands, hope UTG+1 doesn't notice, see how the action goes and then call it back when you know if it's going to be limped behind you.

If it just takes two actions to make the hand dead that could be very unfair.

It would just take one out of turn bet and a snap-fold behind.

That's where some common sense comes into it. If the dealer reports that the player has done something like this then we can kill the hand.

The problem is people never frantically shout to stop the action and then fold. So people know when you bother to frantically stop the action and then raise your hand is genuinely strong. In order to balance this range the frantic stop bluff merge deserves consideration in such situations.

3 passive actions (folding), 2 active (calling/ raising)..  This is actually a TDA rule and I believe this incident was in a cash game. The ruling just needs to be consistent with the room and whatever the floor person decides. I would agree the hand is dead as it can open up angle shooting by some players and so there are no grey areas in the future. Just decide one way or another and be consistent.

The player should actually call for time if he has a decision so the action doesn't move along, unfortunately if someone called time in most cardrooms, there would be an echo of " Quarter past Twelve" or such

Ahh, the old stop bluff merge.

You're missing the point.

If seat 2 hasn't acted - Then seats 3 and 4 have acted out of turn.

And thats a fact.

Some extra info. Jim can correct me if I'm wrong.

S2 has cash in front of him, waiting for chips.

S2 is clever enough to know what's going on around him.

So some zombie is holding the game up tanking everytime it gets to him so all we have to do is get2 callers behind him and his hand is dead. Sweet. If this happens a couple of times it might speed him up :)

The 2 seat is a known angle shooter

Ruling given is that he can call but not raise. Hand is live and all normal options are his after the flop.

i think in these spotts a lot of the time the TD should use common sense!