blonde poker forum

Here's a hand from a turbo $55+5 sit n go. I had no notes on Live Strong as I'd not seen him before

PokerStars Game #3660288757: Tournament #18173623, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2006/01/16 - 20:12:49 (ET)
Table '18173623 1' Seat #7 is the button

8 players left

Seat 8: LiveStrong30 (2870 in chips)
Seat 9: tigmong (1500 in chips)
LiveStrong30: posts small blind 15
tigmong: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tigmong [ As Ah ]
ansuz: folds
waterboy113: calls 30
DZRT WARRIOR: folds
CFused: folds
GaDawg1223: calls 30
Mattyg424: folds
LiveStrong30: raises 30 to 60
tigmong: raises 150 to 210
waterboy113: folds
GaDawg1223: folds
LiveStrong30: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [ Ts 8h Jh ]
LiveStrong30: checks
tigmong: bets 500
LiveStrong30: calls 500
*** TURN *** [ Ts 8h Jh ] [ Jd ]
LiveStrong30: checks

What do you do now?

All in. If he has a Jack, unlucky.

There's not an over abundance of loose play going on in the pokerstars tournaments. If I bet just over the pot on the flop and am flat called, I figure my opponent for top pair or better or a very good draw. In this instance I thought he's got a Jack and when it paired up on the turn decided to check. I don't want to piss my chips away if I don't need to.

There's a chance that I could then be bet off the best hand on the river, or give him a free card if he's on a draw, but I trade that off against the fact that in flat calling my big bet on the flop, he has shown tremendous strength.

Here's what happened next, I check river card is  3h

Board is now  Ts  8h  Jh  Jd  3h

I'm delighted that he checks again.
He could be trying to trap me with a made flush now or J10 so I check and hope I'm good. I know this check was correct, as there's not an awful lot he'll call me with if unless he's got me beat.

My Aces win the pot he shows KQ.
I certainly have a note on him now. He went on to make a few more loose plays.
Given that I didn't know anything about the player when the hand started, do you think I played the turn too passively.

Obviously in hindsight he was on a draw and I should have bet the turn. I just thought it too likely once the 2nd J came down, after he flat called a large bet, that I was beaten.

Given the way he played, I think your caution was justified, you really did'nt know if your aces were  good, I will add that when I read the first post I put him on a straight draw instantly, only because he checked the turn card, If he bet the turn then I would be at the second guess stage " does he have a jacl " but he is not going to check trips with that board its too threatening.

But on the whole better to stay in it to win it.

I would have checked the turn too, you played it just how i would have, no point betting the river.

In my opinion, the way you played was correct, I would've done it exactly the same because I would've been scared of that Jack. :)

I don't like the check on the turn, you definitely need to bet the turn. If he rasies you then you fold but if he flat calls your bet on the turn and the same card comes on the river and he checks again then you check. This way you get more money.

Nem he's in for half his stack..What bet could you put in here on the turn other than the all in?

He played it safe saving his stack. as i would have done too. I cant see a bet the guy is unwilling to call here except the all in, but your risking it not knowing if he has a J.

I like the way tank played it

I cant see why he would flat call the flop with a Jack, so i ship it in.

I dont see why this is a bad call, he has overs and a str8 draw and has the chips to gamble.

If the other player had a Jack, I think he would've raised on the flop. His flat call just smells of a drawing hand to me, therefore you need to make the opposing player pay to hit his draw. If Tank risks more of his stack then so be it.

I don't think I was deep enough for that. Had 790 chips left with over 1,400 in the pot. The only real bet I can make is all-in.


As it transpired, I don't think giving him the free card worked out too badly. He was the sort of player
who would not have folded if I went all-in. He only had 4 outs and I would certainly have been able to get away from it had he hit his 9 (board of 89TJJ, aces are easy to fold)

Think id prolly do the same as u did Frank The Tank

Not the way i play. Tank was doing all the betting for him to keep flat calling. if i had the Jack on the flop i would have wanted to see what tank done first since he was the raiser, then with the Jack on the turn, I would continue to let him bet into it..

We all play very differently..A good thing i'm sure

It wasn't the worst call in the world.....but he went on to make some real stinkers.

He made the play I most like to see in STT (unless it knocks me out)
On the bubble, flat calling in the small blind with nothing, then calling an all-in from the big blind for most of his stack anyway. Why don't these guys raise? I love it :D
My A high held and I doubled through.

The other player was just a passive fish. The fact that he is chasing a straight where a flush is possible is just bad play. You need to make fish pay and checking that turn was a mistake. It also gave Live Strong the opportunity to bluff you if the flush draw came(which he didn't take >:? I personally would've gone all in on that river if I was in Live Stonrg position.

It's not the passive fish I have to worry about charging here.
If he's not going to make a move on the pot when he doesn't hit, then I can wait and see in the knowledge that if he bets, he has it.

Against a loose aggressive player, I need to bet that turn though. Else run the risk of getting pushed off my aces by a missed draw.

I didn't know what he was, hence the controversial desicion.

I think enough draws are here to bet the turn. You dont find anything out by checking and he gets a free card.

The problem with betting the turn is it'll be an awkward sized bet. Gotta be big, but do you wanna commit?

Well you know now  ;)

So on the flop the pot is about 1k after tank bets, its 500 to call, tank has 740 back, if he thinks the J is ahead he is shipping it in right there and then. Why does he want to give tank the chance to catch? I think maybe 5% of the time he has the jack and so i move in on the turn every time.

Without prior knowledge of the passivity of my opponent I think I'm coming round to betting the turn here next time.

Thanks for all your comments

If he has you beat he has you beat. He will probably put u in on the river if he does and given the pot size and the size of your stack  this will be very difficult to fold with the possibility he is bluffing a missed draw.

Bet the turn.

Pretty unlikely he has a jack given the action so far. He checks the flop then calls a bet on a draw heavy board. I think a jack bets out, or if he checks and you bet, he checks a jack in order to check raise which he didnt do. More likely to be a draw than a made hand, occasionally u will get your chips in with 2 or fewer outs, the majority of the time u are charging draws to pay an incorrect price.

Checking isn't good as u dont save chips, except on the occasions when he hits his draw on the river and you make a fold.

Even when he misses, soemtimes another scare card falls and it will be tough to value bet with ilimited info.

STICK EM IN STICK EM IN!

I am betting the turn for a different reason to most. You are going to find passing these Aces pretty difficult with your chip count even after the river so certainly allowing any more draws would be dangerous. However, since I know that I am only going to get him in first on a total bluff or if he is made on the river, then I want them in while I believ that I am still in front and to make sure I don't give him an excuse to not pay me off if he misses a draw. Put em in on the turn and claim the additional chips. If he has the Jack you will occasionally pay him, but he is not passing when he has plenty back and can win a big pot whilst knocking you out. Therefore its more of a value bet and you will now have more chips than him and can dominate his position, making it easier to win the whole thing.

Just read my last post - sounds a bit garbled, but I am sure that you get the point ;)