blonde poker forum

On the back of an argument with a mate, I am intrigued as to people's opinion on the following. I have promised I will just post the hand details with no embellishment or opinion from me, so here it is:

Live Satellite to Big(gish) Tournament. A tournament that we wouldn't normally be rolled to play.

12 left, 10 seats guaranteed. We had a great table but it broke and we're new to this table.

Blinds are 1500/3000/400

UTG 10k
UTG+1 12k
CO 28k
HERO (Button) 80k
SB 35k
BB 85K

Average is about 45k

Folds to Hero on the button with  Ac Jd

We open to 7.5k
SB folds
BB thinks then flat calls

Flop is  Ks Td Qs

BB leads for 10k
We raise to 23k
He insta-shoves

We?

well

1. we have the nuts
2. im not raising flop to fold
3. his peel range starts at 72o vs you
4. his shove range still starts at 72o
5. 50p
6. fold pre


(you probably can fold here, but just dont play it so terrible in the first place - go get a cuppa tea and wiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii)

Fold preflop.

clear fold pre if the stacks are accurate

Go and make a cup of tea, absoutely no need to get involved.

It's BB in the hand with us? Playing 85k?

Fold pre and don't get involved postflop with someone who covers us without the stone cold nuts and no chance of being outdrawn.

Is killing me that I am still not allowed to offer an opinion on my own hand, but assuming we have played the hand as we have (whether this good or bad), what should we do NOW?

ok as played and for all the reasons in the op by you I now fold as you still cover at least 3 of the stacks left (as they are at ur table) but after folding would not tell anyone or post in pha ;)

Obv irl I call it off and lose to the spade otr

if bb is out of hand we call iff bb is still in hand we fold

fold pre and go for smoke imho

If he shows us  9c  Jd, or  9d Jc call. Otherwise fold seems good.

I will never ever ever fold in this spot unless the tourney I'm sattin' into meant the absolute world to me.

It's fine everyone saying fold pre but the reality is that its folded round to your button, you are 6 handed, costing you nearly 7k/ round and its a live situation with nowhere to hide. You are expecting to pick up the blinds & antes cheap.  Granted the 10k and 12k are on life support but I'm guessing in the last few orbits they have opened jammed and picked up the blinds and antes as no one has looked them up.  Have to be honest and leave myself open to abuse and say that most people open this to take down the blinds. You ain't getting many better positions to be in.

You can't go off and make a cup of tea or just sit there folding irl, it just does not happen and you still have to lose 2 players. These sat bubbles can go on for ages were the short stacks are jamming once an orbit and everyone folds, correctly IMO.

Now that the bb has called and led out 10k on the flop I would not bother raising the 23k but instead just move all in. Put the decision back on him for his tourney. If he calls it off you are happy that you have got all your chips in with the nuts, if he folds you are happy to add 25% to your stack and put the bb in a position where on his button or SB he is tempted to take out the 10k  n 12k.

Obviously dont raise fold the flop when you have a straight.

Pre-flop is the mistake here, now you have to take your medicine. You could also consider just calling the flop 10k and then shipping the turn if it isn't a spade of a pair.

IDK what the fuck this guy is doing either lol

Guy, I'm honestly not 'picking on you' even though I'm also pulling you up on something you said in another thread right now too. But why on earth would you say that villain's peeling range (and flop jamming range) includes 72o??!! You do de crazy talk man ;)

Nobody plays like this! And quite rightly too.

Jamming the flop vs the donk MUST be better than raise/calling in a satellite.

Most important thing though is that if you win this pot you should not play a single hand from now on.

Because the big stack villain knows if he gets HU vs us he wins the pot.

Op is thinking of folding having flopped the nuts

Stacks on the other table are very important here. We know the average but that's pretty irrelevant this close to a satellite seat.

Most obvious point raised by a few is to fold pre. Assuming there's a couple of other short stacks on the other table you really have no need whatsoever to get involved. I understand what Jason's saying about picking up the blinds and not being able to fold to a seat in real life but given these stacks you 100% can.

It's when you go getting yourself in these sort of spots and doing 4 orbits worth of chips that you start to drag yourself back in to realms of having to nick a few blinds.

As played you have to fold unfortunately. You're still pretty much locked and at least you're giving chips away to someone, who now that he's on 120k is going to apply even more pressure to the others.

In satellites you really have to pay attention to the seating positions of the big stacks. You're in a bad spot. You have a similar stack 2 to your left which means you need an uber premium and should only ever be shoving. You don't ever want to see a flop.

The other big stack is the guy who can apply pressure as he has 3 short stacks to his left. Leave it with him to do your work for you.

Obviously if he's not applying any pressure then you may have to step it up but given that he's peeled here I think that's unlikely.

50p.

Yeh true... I did say to fold preflop earlier ITT too!

But noone actually plays like this IRL! And they are right not to as well.

you dont play enough sattelites if you think big stacks dont expolit 2nd place in chips on satty bubbles!

Yeah, definitely fold pre here.  To win you need to finish Top 10, not have the biggest stack when there are ten left.

If you are raising pre, then check/flat the flop, and the same on the turn, and then jam the river if it's a non-paired and non-flush board.

Really don't see any need to get involved or to voluntarily put any chips in the middle.

They don't shouldn't exploit their stacks vs the one guy at the table that can reduce them to a bowl and has already shown strength in the hand.

You can't really be exploited if you simply fold every hand and win a seat.

your getting it wrong! What hand can hero proceed with? He wants to fold the nuts!

If villain WANTS to exploit someone its the guy who is locked up! There arent too mnay stacks locked up on this table except heroes

This is all very silly.

If the big stack has  Ks Kh then he should just fold preflop surely?

If we get JJ surely we should just fold it OTB as well? I guess we should go 6k/call with AA/KK/(?QQ?) against the 35k stack and 6k/fold EVERYTHING against the 85k, even aces?

This hand doesnt warrant discussion - its a trivial fold pre

The ONLY reason it warrants discussion is because we flopped the bojangles and I assume OP wants to fold

But if villain was going to exploit his stack size with a range from 72+ surely he'd have done it preflop not now when he's already seen that hero has some sort of hand?
We're giving villain a huge amount of credit here if we think he's capable of making this move with anything other than a hand that could be the same as ours (possibly freerolling a spade draw) or a hand that could beat ours with a spade or a paired board. First rule of satellites this close to the seats is don't put yourself in a spot like this.

no no no! difficult to get people off AA pre flop

Not so difficult on a 9TJssx board on the bubble of a satty whe the guy has a seat locked

Oh and please let the villain have AJss in this hand for roffles

Why on earth would a big stack who has pretty much got a seat locked up want to exploit anyone? Let alone to try doing this with 72o vs a player with a stack size that can actually jeapordise his almost guaranteed seat. He has no need to do anything like this. To think that he has 100% of hands here is just weird.

Just for rofls? Pretty sure Guy would do it. I've seen him raising or calling pretty much 100% when he's got loads of chips.

You could ask the same question or the hero as well. Why on earth is he trying to steal the blinds with AJo? Makes no sense.

Stu

Have you never watched billy big bollocks play every hand?

It's is good strategy to not play hands, but I could load up 3 random sattys tonight and I guarantee someone will be bashing it up

Shhhhhhh ;0)

He should but he won't. I'm glad he won't because that would mean he's good and then the value would disappear from these lovely sats.

Everything you say looks spot on to me. That's what we should do because it'd be correct. Hopefully plenty of others won't though.

...and they certainly don't in the DTD deepstack sats!