blonde poker forum

http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-and-regulation/uk-govt-confirms-place-of-consumption-tax-plans-for-online-poker-17-01/

in a response to comments by the Parliamentary Select Committee on the Department of Culture Media and Sport’s (DCMS) legislative proposals, the UK Government has reiterated its commitment to introducing a place of consumption (POC) tax on online gaming.

The POC tax proposal is complementary to the recent DCMS Bill which managed, in four simple clauses, to extend the regulatory licensing requirement to all operators who offer gambling or online poker to UK residents.

The UK Treasury is expected to introduce the place of consumption tax in its own bill in time for implementation in December 2014.....

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee start doing your tax returns guys, FPPs count as earnings, put your Hold'em Manager on expenses.

More like get ready for huge increase in rake and reg fees. UK gov like to tax the providers not the players.

This was my immediate reaction

This ^^^^^, players wont be getting taxed directly

Coming soon, pokerstars.uk

Just like happened with the reg fees on .fr?  It seems far from certain there will be a HUGE increase in reg fees.

Been coming for ages, I said in another thread this was a massive pinyata waiting to be whacked harder than at a max moseley party.

I think stars will probably have to swallow a lot of these additional costs from any taxes. Taxes will no doubt cause a number of the smaller sites to fold, and their users will migrate to stars - net result stars pay out more but tighten their grip on the overall market.

What happened when France did this (albeit at 15%) is a load of sites opened up. After a year, having done the sums, many of them decided it wasn't worth it and pulled out.

All depends on the % rate the tax is set at.

By Dec 2014 everyone will be busto anyway.

Pokerstars are obscenely profitable largely because of the little tax they pay.  They could easily take the hit only any taxes and still be exceptionally profitable.  If they try and pass this off to the players it could set off some interesting dynamics.

I don't really get what the interesting dynamic would be?  Every firm will have the same tax burden and Stars will still benefit from economies of scale.  Hard to see them being undercut massively in any circumstances.

This is old news - it goes hand in hand with

http://www.culture.gov.uk/news/media_releases/9559.aspx?utm_source=EB%2B031212&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=EB%2B031212%2Bremote%2Bbill

All internet gambling providers will have to be registered with the UK Gambling Commission and they will be taxed a % of their gross profits.  At the moment 15%, but it might be reduced.

Assuming MC's Internet connection is down

(stealing jokes from Barry carter)!

Either that or he is being talked off a ledge like when Black Friday happened and he forgot he wasn't American.

(He should totally have Jimmy Carr as his avatar)

Just seen. FML :(

What will probably happen is that the VIP rewards/rakeback will get cut back as it has done in Denmark, Estonia etc. To cover the extra taxes the companies are paying.

There we go.......

And sites which offer rakeback, or Loyalty Bonuses or whatever will cut the rate.

We'll just get less Green Shield Stamps.

Yeah I agree this is very likely what will happen.

Whoosh. Will it affect me? If so, when?

I think actually the game will be up for stars.fr - stars will need a uk license and have to pay uk gaming duty on your play, so they won't be keen paying the french tax as well.

?

If a UK player who currently plays on .fr switches to play on the .uk site then Stars won't be paying French tax on their play.

At the moment I can play on .fr.  When this all comes into force the uk govt will want a % of my rake whatever site I play on.  So if I play on .fr they will want their cut and the french will want their cut as well.



I see how i made that confusing - it was a specific response to cambridgealex who plays on .fr  I should have said the games up for uk ppl playing on .fr

Yep, if this comes in then you won't be able to play on stars.fr - you'd have to play on stars.uk

Ok, that does suck but it won't be for a while no?

So we won't get taxed on our winnings? (Scarce as they are online anyway....)

No you can still play on .com.  The govt doesn't care where you play as long as they get their tax and the site has a uk license. Stars are just unlikely to allow you to play anywhere that they will get double taxed and .fr is the obvious site where this would happen.

no its just sites that get taxed on gross rake (actually rake less bonuses etc so not that bad for players)

Thank you

French, Italian, Spanish etc players can't play on .com. If UK regulation comes in, part of it will surely be that UK players have to play through a .uk site, as that's how the tax is calculated.

No the proposed design of this tax doesn't ringfence in any way.  Italian Spanish are separate pools - you can't play on them.  .fr allows other eu into the ringfence but taxes everyone. 

This new uk regime says that if Andrew T plays online poker anywhere in the world from the uk, then that site owes the uk govt a cut of his rake.  This is obviously completely unenforceable on its own, hence the introduction of mandatory regulation by the gambling commission for anyone doing business in the uk.

If we have to play on Stars.uk and not allowed on .com uk sng grinders are screwed as there'll be no traffic ?

No

As I understand it we will be part of the global pool, just enter through .co.uk. This is already happening in many places around Europe especially Northern europe.

it will be like stars.eu/.be etc etc same player pool as the rest of stars different client

Sounds like this could make things difficult for those relying on rake back?

This has nothing to do with poker. It's about getting UK punters who are punting on horses or football or whatever to pay tax on a bet.

And so they should.

Poker players pay a shit load through rake. And I mean massive tax. Yet they punt like fuck offshore or with bf and think they are clever?

You sure?  We have a double taxation agreement with France.

I just cannot believe how you guys don't get this fundamental point about gambling in the UK?

It's tax free. For the punter. Poker player. Card counter. Or any other + or - EV gambler.

You all pay your taxes through rake or casino drop taxes and you don't say a word even though UK poker rake is probably at least 3x what we pay in Vegas.

So why can a punter bet in the UK with an off shore layer which is not paying 15%  gross profits tax to hmrc  as UK layers are?

It's the same as the Starbucks bullshit.

I suppose globalisation has arrived. But I can assure you you are being taxed to the hilt. It's just that the gaming providers are paying it on your behalf.

What?!?  Punters will not be paying tax on a bet at all.  The operators will be paying a tax on their profits from uk punters which is totally different and fwiw bf already pay tax and it is unlikely to affect their exchange at all.

Doubt this would apply to gaming duty and stars are an IoM company anyway.

The govt actually introduced special double taxation relief in the 2012 budget for UK licensed companies on profits from other countries and this will be end when this new tax starts.  Incidentally there is no tax payable on profits from by non-uk customers under the new regime.

Seriously? like wtf???
Punters in UK pay plenty of tax, just not directly. This is reflected in poorer odds, worse book for punters in % terms etc. No different to reduced rakeback etc at the end of the day.

Punters, just like poker players (and it's all gambling) will pretty much never pay tax up front on earnings, wayyyyy to many losers, tax write offs etc to ever make it beneficial for the Govt.