blonde poker forum

2nd hand we play In UTG and find  8c Tc.
Hero opens to 4, called in 3 spots.... All unknowns.
Stack sizes all around 200.

Flop:
 7d 9s 2c

Hero: bet 10
Mp: calls 10
Mp: raises to 30
Hero: calls
Mp: folds

Turn:
4c

Hero: checks
Mp: bets 20
Hero: ??

Both stacks around 160 behind. MP female, unknown.

dont fold.

He's bet very small which makes me wanna raise, but I might be getting tricked or leveled, prolly just call - means you cant win the pot if you miss I guess but you're getting a terrific price on the turn to just hit you hand/fold.

Leading any river you make your hand on big if I do call.

Def just call vs female villain multi way

ya well played calling flop, now call turn, and before the river is dealt, jump up and shout ONE FUCKING TIME CLUB BALL OR JACKY OR SIXEY WANNNNN TIMMMME GETTTTTTT etc

Well obv not folding. Just wondered if anyone raises this spot given the turn bet. She still has enough fold equity and if we brick the river we're doing a quarter of our stack. Ranges for her on the turn bet?

she has to have a good proportion of bet folds to make a c/shove better than c/c realise our equity and fold when we miss.

1) fold pre
2) you have 0 fold equity on the turn, imo.

getting 11/2 on the turn with such a strong draw we dont need any plans aside from c/f on brick rivers with the stacks and pot as it is

Fold pre?

this

We have T8s UTG on an 8 handed table?

thoughts on 3b flop?

It's 1/1 cash, it's a great hand. 

It's so pretty and can make many hands

this isn't an online reg filled mid stakes cash game lol


live poka.

in her eye or calling. Bomb a river you hit, she won't fold

Call and get there vs 22. Otherwise just bet and she'll fold face up ;)

Seriously tho, call and cross your fingers

Cawl, you don't even open the button with this sexiness!

Might fold this hand pre if it's the first hand since we're playing versus unknowns. Appreciate that it's a lovely equitable hand and I'm not normally folding it, but like to know what our plan is post-flop. Against unknowns we just don't have a clue, nevermind a plan.

As played check/call is my line, pot rivers that we nail, check/fold rivers we don't

Fyp

Fold pre for sure.
Its a pretty hand OOP vs unknowns and it doesn't sound like were much deeper than 150-200bbs. Not enough when live games generally play with bigger raises pre than online.


As played, calling turn and shoving when we hit.  They're going to level themselves and call or not, irrespective of our sizing.

Rofl at all this fold pre nonsense, no1 actually fold this preflop as sensible as it is.

I do, utg these days.

Id need to be 500bbs deep to do anything funky here, now 4h 5h were talking a different story....

It wouldn't be a PHA thread without a bit of fold pre, espec from lad.

gl convincing me i cant profitably open T8s and worse utg in a  live 1-1 game.

As for the question that was asked, seems little point raising on the turn. You would only do so if

a) you wanted to get all the money in (and you're unlikely to be in good shape if that happens); or
b) you are worried you don't get paid on the river (and clubs are well-disguised, so that seems unlikely)

So calling only would seem the correct play.


Is playing a drawing hand OOP against unknowns ever a +EV play?

Yes. Firstly we're getting 11/2 on the turn, so assuming she will play rivers perfectly (or that there will be no betting on any river) we're making money on the turn call. Now add in the implied odds - when we make ur hand we have a very good chance of getting paid more money, and combine on the fact that we never get bluffed off the best hand really (maybe once in a million times we'll turn a TEN and she'll bluff us) and we never miss our draw and call off any more money (river isn't going to be a 9 and we'll check call a bet)

We make a decent amount of money calling this turn bet, irrespective of who were playing and what we know about them

Oh I think the call on the turn is correct. My question is the more general point of playing T8 oop, which I understand is important for balance, but isn't this the sort of funky play best reserved for when you know the oppo a bit better?

Ar I see, you mean drawing hands like T8 as opposed to having a draw and playing it OOP. My bad.

It's not particulally important for balance, being "balanced" in a spot basically means you have a range in each spot which buffs, which value bets and that pot controls, therefore your opponent can't think "oh, he's checked and he never checks back hands with value" or "arr, he's bet and he doesn't buff ever in this spt so I can fold some good hands" ad so on.

Being able to have T8s or AA preflop isn't really "balanced" it's just kind of irrelevant and mostly down to style, some players are very active and like to play a lot of hands so they'll open T8s utg, they have to be prepared to face a lot of attack both pre and post flop (cos they have more weaker hands than others) and players who are much tighter won't be attacked as frequently because they have stronger ranges but have to be prepared to exploit how strong their ranges is on some boards and be prepared to face a lot of heat on boards which dont hit their ranges as hard.

Neither is a bad strategy you just have to be able to "fight back" against players attempt to exploit your strategy, and as a general rule the more hands your playing the more "wars" you'll get into, and these leave you more susceptible to mistakes and some prickly high V situations which is why some very solid standard advice would be to play tighter speshly in full ring games.

Obviously knowing more about your opponents will help and playing tighter whilst you pick some information on your opponents then opening your game up will always generally be a shrewder strategy then starting out all guns blazing.

If I open to £10 at 1/2 from the CO I could have AA, A8s, 58s or 33 I think that's stnd for most people and it's nothing really to do with me being balanced and who the players in the blinds are wont matter too much, but as you say this is defo a different consideration when you're UTG.

Fairly put.

Yours nittishly,

Tal

I didnt really answer the question either lol, I just said....maybe, lol

I noticed but I'm nice.  :D

That kind of IS the answer though, sometimes it is....sometimes it isn't :P

Of course. To be most instructive, though, (to optimise our instruction range, if you will...) you should explain what factors you take into consideration when playing it one way and under which specific circs you do the opposite.

I'm happy enough with your answer but we're probably off-topic now. Par for the course for me :)

Loved this bit.

I'd call the turn always here - raising turns our disguised draw into a bluff, which seems unnecessary given the price we're being given to hit our hand and the potential big return on the river if we hit our hidden draw. By just calling she may interpret this as weakness which could pay off big on the river if she has top pair/2 pair type hands. Any raise on the turn also gives her the perfect stack to go all-in, leaving us in a horrible spot. If she does happen to have 2 pair/a set type hands that she's decided to play weird on the turn, most of our river outs willl not only be good but likely to get paid off with her stack.

Fold pre but nobody does. I think that understanding why it should be a fold is important but don't actually do it obv in a live 1-1 game full of unknowns.

Call and play fit/fold on the river is optimal I think. Villain is very likely to be finding out where she is with 9x but be stacking off anyway if you raise so just call and lead big when you get there.