Title: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: rfgqqabc on February 11, 2013, 01:12:38 AM http://weaktight.com/5500134
So far guy had been pretty tight, not done much of note, something like 23/12/2.5% 3b over a tiny sample, around 45 hands guessing from the blind levels. Thoughts on sizing on all streets? In game it felt like his turn/river size left him repping slightly different ranges. His river bet seems a bit big for something that is essentially looking to get a call from a weaker Ax hand (a3/a4). With his turn size I could even have a flush. It seemed a little big for his value range vs my 1pair hands, so i can only assume he wants a fold. I found myself hovering between the call/fold buttons with my time bank decreasing. These hands are really hard to review after the fact, his turn timing was pretty quick as was river, both these factors help polarise him more imo but still unsure about turn call/river. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: youthnkzR on February 11, 2013, 01:38:39 AM I don't think this looks much like a bluff personally. Interested to see what others think. Guessing you folded? Would be cool to see the results.
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: outragous76 on February 11, 2013, 01:41:30 AM why we getting involved in a silly potfirst few levels of the million?
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: George2Loose on February 11, 2013, 03:49:47 AM Think checking turn is best for loads of reasons. Pot control, don't think u get too much value from worse, might get heroed on the river if it goes c/c also can induce bluffs on turn.
As played this you should fold turn and Deffo fold river. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: rfgqqabc on February 11, 2013, 03:57:59 AM Think checking turn is best for loads of reasons. Pot control, don't think u get too much value from worse, might get heroed on the river if it goes c/c also can induce bluffs on turn. As played this you should fold turn and Deffo fold river. Even with gutter and Ad? Checking the turn seems like a solid line, but aren't we extremely showdown heavy when we do that? Rarely inducing bluffs/stabs from pairs etc. Shouldn't he just bomb turn/bomb river when we check the turn to him? I guess this is protected by checking Ax hands? GTO wise it has to be a mixture right? This is obv not necessary in Mil though. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: SuuPRlim on February 11, 2013, 01:40:57 PM I think you should go min 400 pre-flop but then people might disagree with me, i just hate opening small bvb.
I'd fold to the turn raise, terrible visibility and play-ability on rivers our hand does if he's deciding this might be a good spot to be bluffing then good luck to him. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: pleno1 on February 11, 2013, 03:07:56 PM Fold pre although everybody will disagree. If we do open then 2.6-8x > 2.0-2.3
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: cambridgealex on February 11, 2013, 03:23:03 PM why we getting involved in a silly potfirst few levels of the million? What would you do different Guy? Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: action man on February 11, 2013, 03:46:39 PM play same and fold river. Sometimes this early i just fold pre
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: rfgqqabc on February 11, 2013, 04:08:20 PM Fold pre although everybody will disagree. If we do open then 2.6-8x > 2.0-2.3 Haha, correct about disagreeing with pre. Spoke with some people about it and I still feel we can profitably open to 2.5 and bet like 95% of flops to 2.5bb and show a profit vs this opp. I'd be surprised to see him defend widely enough pre/otf for this not to be true. I think folding pre before antes should definitely be a consideration if we know the player is in fact good, whereas this guy had a unsure but not playing 33/6 over 45 hands tag on him. Agree pre is a touch small, pretty stylistic though. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: outragous76 on February 11, 2013, 04:21:50 PM why we getting involved in a silly potfirst few levels of the million? What would you do different Guy? see Pleno and Triggs comments - if i happen to have raised my line would be much more passive all the way Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: cambridgealex on February 11, 2013, 04:44:59 PM why we getting involved in a silly potfirst few levels of the million? What would you do different Guy? see Pleno and Triggs comments - if i happen to have raised my line would be much more passive all the way Trigg said he'd play it the same. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: Keylek on February 11, 2013, 05:11:25 PM Fold pre although everybody will disagree. If we do open then 2.6-8x > 2.0-2.3 Haha, correct about disagreeing with pre. Spoke with some people about it hihi My thoughts on pre are pretty much fold if the opponent is good pre ante and raise if he is not good. So hard to pot control oop with hands like this that even if it is +Cev (Which im not sure it is) it probably isn't a good spot against a good opponent. As played I don't think I check the turn - my reasons are that it looks like we have a showdown hand that we're going to c/c c/c (ie like we have exactly what we do have) that I don't expect to get bluffed too often, I feel like we do have to lead the turn to get any bluffs from his range. I think call the turn and soulread the river is the play, unless he is ginger in which case I just fold as soulreading riv would be impossible. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: outragous76 on February 11, 2013, 05:15:21 PM why we getting involved in a silly potfirst few levels of the million? What would you do different Guy? see Pleno and Triggs comments - if i happen to have raised my line would be much more passive all the way Trigg said he'd play it the same. Meant the fold pre bit Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: rfgqqabc on February 11, 2013, 05:32:19 PM why we getting involved in a silly potfirst few levels of the million? What would you do different Guy? see Pleno and Triggs comments - if i happen to have raised my line would be much more passive all the way Trigg said he'd play it the same. Meant the fold pre bit I had a quick dabble to get my own raising range in this spot. 22+,A2s+,K2s+,Q5s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,65s,A2o+,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T8o+,97o+,87o 42.7% 44+,A2s+,K2s+,Q4s+,J6s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,A2o+,K6o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T8o+ 43% would be top 43% purely in preflop equity. Is this too loose? How accurate would the second one be after antes vs a similar opponent? Presuming mil structure. Starting to think now I'd fold a6o in big 55 if it folded around @ 20/40 so maybe I don't always open it here, certainly would in the mil with a similar amount of tables yday (peaked at 8 but 5ish through mil and spent a lot of time 2 tabling. Agree? Can completely understand folding if your near max capacity, ie I do think its only a slightly +ev open. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: outragous76 on February 11, 2013, 05:54:08 PM Not going to get into specific ranges, but as a rule of thumb pre ante I'm playing very few hands from the sb, even bvb.
There would need to be a specific dynamic for me to play a 10k pot bvb @ 80 160 or whatever we are at. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: MANTIS01 on February 11, 2013, 06:02:19 PM If you have a solid image I wouldn't contemplate folding A6 bvb vs a tight oppo. For me it would go min raise and cbet but then check call mode when we bink the A. Don't think our tight oppo will take off with big booming bluffs and we will prob just need to call one bet. Winning a small pot is a good idea with this hand as it will be hard to win a big one.
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: SuuPRlim on February 11, 2013, 10:00:15 PM Pre is whatever there is no way opening can be a mistake but folding defo fine as well, you have on of the worst hands A6o really does play horrif OOP.
I'f fold the turn, yes he's repping abso nothing but he's a random in the million and he wont be bluffing with a p+gs or flush draw or something like that so he has to have floated the flop to raise the turn, if you think a random account is capable of doing that 1 for every three times he just has 33/44/77/56/A3/A4/A7 then you're defo leveling yourself. Agree the river bet is big/polarizing and he might not even bet this big with A3/A4 now the flush hits/rarely has a flush himself so his value range is getting narrower and narrower but conserving your chips is so very important in this tournament there is no way getting stubborn with a pretty weak hand OOP against whats certainly an un-capped range is a profitable move imo. Just fold the turn, save the chips and prevent yourself from having to make a rivier decision, which despite some pretty accurate poker theory applied to it, is really kind of guesswork. JB would have c/r/3b/folded the turn though. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: cambridgealex on February 11, 2013, 10:22:22 PM im folding turn probs, defo river
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: tron1ft8 on February 11, 2013, 10:34:01 PM folding preflop 95% of the time unless i have only got a couple of tables open and notice that the big blind is not a good player.
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: pleno1 on February 11, 2013, 10:59:45 PM 3b turn? :p
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: youthnkzR on February 12, 2013, 12:00:50 AM Fwiw fold pre is my option of choice too. Also like checking turn. As played fold turn. River is 100% fold.
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: SuuPRlim on February 12, 2013, 01:10:58 AM Think betting the turn is 100% the play. hes never folding 7x but never betting it
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: WotRTheChances on February 12, 2013, 01:18:50 AM Just me who's fist-pump folding the turn like almost 100% vs a random here? I probs play it the same until then, but don't mind checking turn some %. Even if we do check-call the turn we're probs folding to a river bet? Pre-antes in the milli i'm just being a dirty nit (as I am during antes and whenever cards are dealt in my direction).
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: skolsuper on February 12, 2013, 03:10:37 AM Just me who's fist-pump folding the turn like almost 100% vs a random here? I probs play it the same until then, but don't mind checking turn some %. Even if we do check-call the turn we're probs folding to a river bet? Pre-antes in the milli i'm just being a dirty nit (as I am during antes and whenever cards are dealt in my direction). No I am also folding to turn raise without a second thought, altho turn 3b is pretty sexy I'm not trying it in the mill sry pleno. I do prefer checking turn personally but seems like that is unpopular so will perhaps reassess... Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: Doobs on February 12, 2013, 06:58:07 AM All looks fine to me, fold river.
Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: buffyslayer1 on February 12, 2013, 11:57:39 AM Fold pre although everybody will disagree. If we do open then 2.6-8x > 2.0-2.3 folding pre is insanely nitty. I know your'e a decent player and you know that if we 3x here the BB has to defend redic wide for raise/fold not to be profitable with a really wide range. Agree about sizing I would make it 3x here, I think the size chosed by OP is a huge error if villain is even semi competent. I would go a full 3x 80bb effective personally. As played bet/fold turn. I would prefer betting to checking given there are plenty of draws in villains range to call you with that get value from and people don't believe you BvB anyway. Edit: More I think about it the more I think checking turn is pretty terrible actually whether BB is a fish or a reg. Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: JustinSayne on February 15, 2013, 12:31:11 AM Fold > Shove > Call imo
Folding pre and folding turn too Title: Re: Sunday Mil BvB interesting spot Post by: pleno1 on February 15, 2013, 09:30:03 AM I'd not shove in the million.
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