Title: How to play premiums on the button Post by: TL900 on March 02, 2013, 04:41:35 PM DTD300 yesterday, level is 1200/2400/300
Alex Goulder has just been sat down 2 to my left and we are playing 7 handed i believe. This is the 2nd hand Alex has been at the table. We open the button to 5200 with 7h 7s SB (guy who has been gunning for me all day trying to own me etc) peels. Alex very quickly makes it 17400 by just piling on top 3x purple chips on to his bb. We started the hand with exactly 131000 sb covers us both, Alex has about 160 i believe. We are the next table to break in 2 people time I believe. WWYD? Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 02, 2013, 04:43:38 PM fold, doesn't seem too close?
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: stato_1 on March 02, 2013, 04:49:26 PM fold, doesn't seem too close? Yeah fold, I mean chip EV wise you may find we have a profitable jam, but don't really like it in this tournament risking a really decent stack which u can pick on ppl with for what is a pretty small edge. And nothing else really fits. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: TL900 on March 02, 2013, 04:52:08 PM fold, doesn't seem too close? Yeah fold, I mean chip EV wise you may find we have a profitable jam, but don't really like it in this tournament risking a really decent stack which u can pick on ppl with for what is a pretty small edge. And nothing else really fits. yeah aite maybe I'm just overthinking it cuz I was just insane card dead and finally found what felt like the nizzles, I folded after about a minute Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: pleno1 on March 02, 2013, 05:01:26 PM shove as its the sunday 7m gte this week.
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: smashedagain on March 02, 2013, 06:13:22 PM shove as its the sunday 7m gte this week. hahaTitle: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: LonOhRay on March 02, 2013, 06:42:39 PM Swop seats with Alex
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: jgcblack on March 03, 2013, 01:09:46 AM Swop seats with Alex Take out your Nandos card and get an autograph, then pass him one of the pieces of you soul from your pocket. Smile and pass it over, let him know there's more where this one came from. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: cambridgealex on March 03, 2013, 10:23:12 AM 2 PHA threads about me this week BOOOOOOM #madeit
you have a pretty profitable jam here imo. there's 30,200 in there and you're jamming 125k. I know it's loads of bbs but the pot is swelled by the sb peel so my 3bet is kinda big (7.2bbs). Whether it's worth it in this tournament with all the value elsewhere is debatable, probs a fold and don't tell me what you had situation :P Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 03, 2013, 01:05:42 PM This is just one of those spots, Alex has made a good 3bet and the reason it's a good 3bet is because it's not worth your time defending against it with a hand as strong as 77, he might have 79s but w/e well played its ok to be bluffed from time to time.
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: rfgqqabc on March 04, 2013, 02:54:08 AM This is just one of those spots, Alex has made a good 3bet and the reason it's a good 3bet is because it's not worth your time defending against it with a hand as strong as 77, he might have 79s but w/e well played its ok to be bluffed from time to time. Works both ways thooooooooTitle: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: julian on March 04, 2013, 02:46:56 PM so alex has just sat down & gets a 3b in on his 2nd hand at the table?
hmmm, i'm surprised no one has suggested a 4b to 30k Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: cambridgealex on March 04, 2013, 02:52:57 PM so alex has just sat down & gets a 3b in on his 2nd hand at the table? hmmm, i'm surprised no one has suggested a 4b to 30k think this is quite a good idea - even though 77 is a rubbish hand to 4b/fold and it might as well be 72, there's still going to be a massive difference in the range I'm 5b shoving and the range i'm 3betting, enough so to probably make a profitable anytwo 4bet. Tom isn't to know that though. Assume you meant 4b/fold julian and not call it off? Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: julian on March 04, 2013, 03:03:51 PM hmmm,
armed with the assumption that you'd expect me to fold 77 to a shove it's not so straightforward anymore. sorry, i'm trying to post with flair today & am already tying myself up in knots. limp 77 on the button & see a cheap flop anyone? Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: dreenie on March 04, 2013, 04:24:14 PM limp 77 on the button & see a cheap flop anyone? LOOOL <3 Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 04, 2013, 04:50:03 PM This is just one of those spots, Alex has made a good 3bet and the reason it's a good 3bet is because it's not worth your time defending against it with a hand as strong as 77, he might have 79s but w/e well played its ok to be bluffed from time to time. Works both ways thoooooooono it doesn't, in this spot. because alex has got the leverage. (cba to look back at stacks but assume 4b/folding 77 wouldn't be that great here) Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: rfgqqabc on March 04, 2013, 08:19:22 PM This is just one of those spots, Alex has made a good 3bet and the reason it's a good 3bet is because it's not worth your time defending against it with a hand as strong as 77, he might have 79s but w/e well played its ok to be bluffed from time to time. Works both ways thoooooooono it doesn't, in this spot. because alex has got the leverage. (cba to look back at stacks but assume 4b/folding 77 wouldn't be that great here) Jammin' marn! 2 PHA threads about me this week BOOOOOOM #madeit you have a pretty profitable jam here imo. there's 30,200 in there and you're jamming 125k. I know it's loads of bbs but the pot is swelled by the sb peel so my 3bet is kinda big (7.2bbs). Whether it's worth it in this tournament with all the value elsewhere is debatable, probs a fold and don't tell me what you had situation :P Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: Junior Senior on March 04, 2013, 09:08:42 PM stick it in both of his eyes, its more than just about one hand!
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: DMorgan on March 04, 2013, 10:51:41 PM Eyeballing this aaaaalllll day long
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: pleno1 on March 05, 2013, 03:03:19 AM Lok to the sky and fold checking out the valet behind you or look at the dealer and announce that you would like to wager them all. Both seem fine.
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: The Squid on March 05, 2013, 10:28:49 AM You cant fold.
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: youthnkzR on March 05, 2013, 11:02:23 AM ;all-in;
Seriously not folding this hand vs this maniac ;D Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 06, 2013, 11:18:28 AM I am 99% certain I could prove going all-in won't make you money, but I know nothing about tournaments so could obviously be wrong.
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: cambridgealex on March 06, 2013, 11:35:55 AM Go on dave. Prove it.
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: theprawnidentity on March 06, 2013, 11:43:28 AM In a vacuum probably just ship it.
If you have a history of going after each other, probably 4b call, as I know Alex is shipping any hand containing a 2 in my face. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 06, 2013, 12:12:22 PM Go on dave. Prove it. I started out doing it, am pretty convinced I'm right but cba this time :P Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: rfgqqabc on March 06, 2013, 12:40:41 PM equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 62.794% 62.60% 00.19% 66462026 201698.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ } Hand 1: 37.206% 37.02% 00.19% 39297426 201698.00 { 7d7h } Villain must fold at least 45% of the time. Input: Effective:$113800/Hero equity: 37%/ Current Potisze: $29900/ Facing bet$17200 We give Alex 30 combos of pairs and 32 combos of none pairs. 62 combos for value. So we need to find say 62 bluff combos here to have a decent roi. Thats only A9-A2s Don't really want to speculate or ask Goulder on exact ranges but he has to have enough bluff combos here even if he gives Tom a lot of respect. Its +Cev for sure. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: DMorgan on March 06, 2013, 01:44:56 PM I am 99% certain I could prove going all-in won't make you money, but I know nothing about tournaments so could obviously be wrong. Pairs have so much equity as ranges expand even a little beyond legit value. If you can be certain that villain has a bluffing range in this spot then its pretty much always always gunna be a jam. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 06, 2013, 04:12:06 PM equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 62.794% 62.60% 00.19% 66462026 201698.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ } Hand 1: 37.206% 37.02% 00.19% 39297426 201698.00 { 7d7h } Villain must fold at least 45% of the time. Input: Effective:$113800/Hero equity: 37%/ Current Potisze: $29900/ Facing bet$17200 We give Alex 30 combos of pairs and 32 combos of none pairs. 62 combos for value. So we need to find say 62 bluff combos here to have a decent roi. Thats only A9-A2s Don't really want to speculate or ask Goulder on exact ranges but he has to have enough bluff combos here even if he gives Tom a lot of respect. Its +Cev for sure. Proves nothing Adam, sorry to say. You make chips ofc you do not disputing that but I think you make no MONEY by going all in here. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: rfgqqabc on March 06, 2013, 05:06:56 PM equity win tie pots won pots tied Hand 0: 62.794% 62.60% 00.19% 66462026 201698.00 { TT+, AQs+, AQo+ } Hand 1: 37.206% 37.02% 00.19% 39297426 201698.00 { 7d7h } Villain must fold at least 45% of the time. Input: Effective:$113800/Hero equity: 37%/ Current Potisze: $29900/ Facing bet$17200 We give Alex 30 combos of pairs and 32 combos of none pairs. 62 combos for value. So we need to find say 62 bluff combos here to have a decent roi. Thats only A9-A2s Don't really want to speculate or ask Goulder on exact ranges but he has to have enough bluff combos here even if he gives Tom a lot of respect. Its +Cev for sure. Proves nothing Adam, sorry to say. You make chips ofc you do not disputing that but I think you make no MONEY by going all in here. As in the +cev of the jam doesnt meet our longterm roi? Would poss agree on that as Tom is v.good and comp can be very soft at this stage but dont hate too much. After all, an in your eye spot early on might prevent Alex/others from getting too frisky and we can avoid any close spots after this. I think in theory it is prob best to take the first closest spot for image concerns esp as it may be closer to -$ev later. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 06, 2013, 05:18:22 PM table is breaking v soon, otherwise agree that would be a decent consideration
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: George2Loose on March 06, 2013, 05:24:00 PM Is 77 the line here? We go with 99 I take it? 88?
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: cambridgealex on March 06, 2013, 05:35:52 PM Knowing my range in this spot, folding 77 would be pretty absurd, even taking all chip EV/ $ev considerations and all other things mentioned itt into account.
Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: rfgqqabc on March 06, 2013, 05:40:41 PM Knowing my range in this spot, folding 77 would be pretty absurd, even taking all chip EV/ $ev considerations and all other things mentioned itt into account. Lildave in over the hill scandal :dontask: ;whistle; :tikay: Just seen a huge message from skype, not sure this post is wise now. Title: Re: How to play premiums on the button Post by: SuuPRlim on March 06, 2013, 10:37:06 PM we'll all agree to disagree.
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