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Title: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 08, 2013, 11:29:53 AM According to a chat with a policeman yesterday if someone, during an arguement, says 'I'm going to stab you' or 'I'm going to bring 10 men down to sort you out' it wont be considered as a threat if the person the comment is aimed at is not scared.
This totally baffled me. Not sure if it's just a case of Britains finest shirking responsibility or it is actually the case. Maybe the Rumpole of Blondepoker will be able to answer. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: kinboshi on March 08, 2013, 11:58:03 AM Doesn't the threat have to be 'credible'? So if someone doesn't think the person doing the threatening is serious (and are therefore not scared by it) it isn't a credible threat?
Need Robert to answer this one. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 08, 2013, 12:07:57 PM I see where you're coming from but lets just say if an unknown scrawny 20 something year old lad came up to you and said I'm going to stab you just, because you could normally handle this kid does this mean it's still not a credible threat?
How about the other threat of coming back with 10 other men to 'sort you out', you could happily handle the lad but 10 more might not be quite as easy. Ok lets add that you know this lad has previously be a guest of Her Maj, you do not know what for though. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: leethefish on March 08, 2013, 12:31:15 PM Ten ain't a threat !!
Maybe 12! Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: millidonk on March 08, 2013, 12:43:06 PM When it's ajar!! oh no wait, that's a door.
Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: RED-DOG on March 08, 2013, 12:52:46 PM When you tell your burd you're going to roger her to death, it isn't a credible threat.
Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 08, 2013, 01:08:22 PM When you tell your burd you're going to roger her to death, it isn't a credible threat. Ok, but if you said you were going to roger her to death and she dies and somebody heard you say it would it be premeditated murder? Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 08, 2013, 01:09:56 PM Ten ain't a threat !! Maybe 12! For us non forces types 10 might be too much, we are not all heroes mate Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: rfgqqabc on March 08, 2013, 01:14:37 PM Ten ain't a threat !! Maybe 12! For us non forces types 10 might be too much, we are not all heroes mate I hope we are on about pints because my line is about 0.85 if not! The line is 5.5 for pints tho :( Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: celtic on March 08, 2013, 05:05:31 PM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated?
Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: millidonk on March 08, 2013, 05:10:29 PM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated? Stfu before I do you in. Countless hours.. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 08, 2013, 06:02:31 PM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated? Is it still a waste of hours even if just 1 life is saved? Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: MintTrav on March 08, 2013, 06:50:05 PM When you tell your burd you're going to roger her to death, it isn't a credible threat. Ok, but if you said you were going to roger her to death and she dies and somebody heard you say it would it be premeditated murder? My father was on a jury where the only evidence against the defendant was that he had had a row and everyone in the pub had heard him tell the other guy that he would kill him. The guy was found murdered later that night. The jury accepted that he was just using a common expression rather than intending it literally and gave a Not Guilty. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: Tal on March 08, 2013, 06:55:43 PM This is a really interesting bit of the law from an academic point of view, but a blinking nightmare from a victim point of view.
Assault is not the same as battery. There's a general name that covers the two: "common assault". If you punch me, that's battery. If you raise your fist and say "I'm gonna teach you a lesson you ain't never gonna forget, boy" like a 1995 WWF wrestler, that's assault. Assault is putting someone in fear of immediate personal violence. In 1669 [insert Tikay gag here], a case came before the court where a man had said "If it were not [peace] time, I would not take such language from you". The response from t'other chap was to stab him in the eye with his sword. Was it self defence? The court said no, because the victim was saying he wasn't going to hurt him; just that he would have, had it not been peace time. http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/KB/1669/J25.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberville_v_Savage Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: tikay on March 08, 2013, 07:07:03 PM ^^^^
Superb. I have always wondered the legal difference between " assault" and "battery". Why is it that we so often hear of folks being charged with assault, or "assault and battery", but almost never " battery"? Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: kinboshi on March 08, 2013, 07:24:11 PM It's usually the case that battery's not included. Especially at Xmas when you open any toys.
Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 08, 2013, 07:28:00 PM It's usually the case that battery's not included. Especially at Xmas when you open any toys. I knew you were going to say that. Wrong thread but valid nonetheless :) Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: Tal on March 08, 2013, 08:09:32 PM ^^^^ Superb. I have always wondered the legal difference between " assault" and "battery". Why is it that we so often hear of folks being charged with assault, or "assault and battery", but almost never " battery"? The reason for that is that you assault someone before you batter them. If you swing to hit me, you have already committed assault before your fist hits my nose. All the ABH is part of the same family: assault occasioning actual bodily harm is the name in the Offences Against the Person Act 1861. Common Assault was put into legislation the best part of 130 years later. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: tikay on March 08, 2013, 08:12:14 PM ^^^^^
And if I may be a pain, the difference between.... Grievous bodily harm Actual bodily harm Bodily harm, if it exists. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: tikay on March 08, 2013, 08:13:23 PM .... One more, then I promise I will shut up. The difference between.... Assault Common assault Thanks. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: Tal on March 08, 2013, 08:24:07 PM ^^^^^ And if I may be a pain, the difference between.... Grievous bodily harm Actual bodily harm Bodily harm, if it exists. Just the first two. ABH is (iirc) needs to be more than transient and trifling, so bloodied nose, minor breaks, that kind of thing. Section 47 of the OAPA 1861. GBH is really serious stuff, so if you give someone a rather hefty kicking and they're packed off to hospital for a few nights, you could find yourself getting charged with a "section 20" (from the 1861 Act). GBH is so serious, if this is what you set out to do and the victim dies, you can be charged with murder. The lower the number in the OAPA, the more serious the offence, so section 18, for example, is wounding with intent, also called GBH with intent. The intent can be read as "intent to do a lot more" Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: Tal on March 08, 2013, 08:25:47 PM .... One more, then I promise I will shut up. The difference between.... Assault Common assault Thanks. Answered already, 'ave I not? Assault is making you think I'm about to hit you. Common assault is the general name given to that and then walloping you (combining assault and battery). Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: celtic on March 08, 2013, 09:45:44 PM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated? Is it still a waste of hours even if just 1 life is saved? No, but what I'm saying is, the numbers just don't work. Obviously that's wrong, but that's the way it is. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 08, 2013, 10:00:11 PM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated? Is it still a waste of hours even if just 1 life is saved? No, but what I'm saying is, the numbers just don't work. Obviously that's wrong, but that's the way it is. Ok, if somebody said they were going to torch your favourite kebab house right after Nandos went bump, how would you feel then? Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: celtic on March 08, 2013, 10:20:29 PM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated? Is it still a waste of hours even if just 1 life is saved? No, but what I'm saying is, the numbers just don't work. Obviously that's wrong, but that's the way it is. Ok, if somebody said they were going to torch your favourite kebab house right after Nandos went bump, how would you feel then? Something's are not allowed to be joked about. You just over stepped the mark. Shame on you. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: smashedagain on March 09, 2013, 09:52:57 AM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated? Is it still a waste of hours even if just 1 life is saved? No, but what I'm saying is, the numbers just don't work. Obviously that's wrong, but that's the way it is. Ok, if somebody said they were going to torch your favourite kebab house right after Nandos went bump, how would you feel then? Something's are not allowed to be joked about. You just over stepped the mark. Shame on you. Title: Re: When is a threat not a threat? Post by: bobAlike on March 09, 2013, 10:23:09 AM Could you imagine how many police hours would be wasted if every threat had to be investigated? Is it still a waste of hours even if just 1 life is saved? No, but what I'm saying is, the numbers just don't work. Obviously that's wrong, but that's the way it is. Ok, if somebody said they were going to torch your favourite kebab house right after Nandos went bump, how would you feel then? Something's are not allowed to be joked about. You just over stepped the mark. Shame on you. Celtic made me feel that bad I just had to go to Nandos to invest in some chicken. |