blonde poker forum

***** Hand History for Game 4634378534 ***** (IPoker)
$500.00 USD PL Omaha - Tuesday, March 12, 08:11:41 ET 2013
Table Castleknock (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Seat 1: DoThang ( $228.00 USD )
Seat 3: fruitypebbles55 ( $1018.85 USD )
Seat 5: skint2004 ( $1425.80 USD )
Seat 6: dougwinz ( $500.00 USD )
Seat 8: D15cOnn3ct3d ( $500.00 USD )
Seat 10: HERO ( $1619.50 USD )
dougwinz posts small blind [$2.00 USD].
D15cOnn3ct3d posts big blind [$5.00 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [  Qh Jc Tc 8h ]
HERO raises [$15.00 USD]
DoThang calls [$15.00 USD]
fruitypebbles55 calls [$15.00 USD]
skint2004 folds
dougwinz folds
D15cOnn3ct3d folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, Ts, 2c ]
HERO bets [$42.00 USD]
DoThang calls [$42.00 USD]
fruitypebbles55 raises [$150.00 USD]
HERO

DoThang I think is weaker/splashy player, fruitypebbles I know very little about but have played a hundred or so hands and has pretty reggy stats.

What you we wanna do and why?

Folding IMO. He's likely not raising any hand under top end rundown or top (maybe middle) set. In fact if he's a competent reg he's likely raising most AKQx hands in position that he's not folding pre so looks more like a set? We've got no re-draws of worth so do we really want to attempt to hold vs a hand that could already have us crushed?
Plus if we flat call and do thang decides to put it in (which he's only ever folding or going all in) we put ourselves in a discusting position where we're calling off the 213 total oop.

Decide if you wanna stack off and if so call. Does do thangs shove re open the betting? I am too pissed to work it out?

No dothangs AI would be an under raise

Pretty hard for him to have a set here as we have 2 blockers and raising a pot sized bet and call w 22xx seems pretty retarded as his equity v a shove is just so bad!

That leaves us with top end run downs with a pair and 2 pair draws like AKQT etc, or KQJT where we are getting free-rolled so often!, AA/KK with gutterballs I believe just flat if he is a reg. Most reg's played super standard in these spots with ok~ish equity and just aim to get it in with high equity draws given it's IPOKER!

Not having pokerstove on atm so can't work out equity ranges. I can't imagine re-shoving here is good and -ev given our equity vs higher wraps w pair draws has us in a mathematically awkward spot and Folding seems fine.

Pottings.

Literally 2 hand combinations currently beat us, % wise it's quite difficult for villain to have these.

I think at worst we are going to be up against KQ with two back door flush draws. I want to get lots of cash in whilst I have an equity edge.

We could just call, never folding. Calling is going to make it difficult to realise our equity tho imo.

cashspwetard/derbylad in the folding camp defo really sound logic there can't argue with any of it.

A couple of things really bother me about this spot, the first is why exactly this player is raising, and to this size. Pot is £52 otf I bet £42 and dothang calls so a pot sized raise from him would be to £220. I have a pretty strong range here as Ive opened PF and lead into two and I am pretty much ALWAYS calling a jam from DoThang so have to have something (could be AAK* something like that or even AJ98 but I have to be calling him off. Given that Dothangs all-in doesnt re-open the betting (he's going to be going all in nearly 100% of the time imo) once i comes back to me I'v got £171 (assuming dothangs all in) into a pot of £565 so even being OOP and deeper now I'v got a really easy call with anything with equity against JJJ/TTT, and now the SPR is 1.2 my hand is pretty playable.

So it felt like it was a raise engineered to try put me in a coffin with the weaker hands im bet calling vs dothang and not for pure value as it just really doesn't make sense to raise JJJ or TTT here to this size for value. So in theory he could be doing this really wide for value against DoThang trying to freeze me out of the pot with a stronger hand - so i felt i game I had a LOT of fold equity, but still don't know if just going all in or calling and getting it in on nearly all turn cards (except A's Q's K's) is better if i want to proceed.

As it happens though I did end up folding in game, which I regret in heinsight i think.

Nitty fold I think.

We go broke with KQJT/AKJT/AQJT though right? since we have better equity vs his JTxx hands?

note - I am a PLO fish

The questions really, is he ever raising a hand < our own holding vs the sizing of DoThangs stack size which is inevitably going to showdown based on daves description of the villain. I'd say it's an educated fold rather than a nitty fold. And even if we re-evaluate the turn there's few cards that we're staying to showdown with and few cards that the villain won't continue to barrel. As stated earlier call only if your willing to hold in what would now effectively be a ~700 pound pot OTF.

yes, although calling and shipping on 7's Q's J's 9's and 8's is a better way to play those hands IMO

However I think he'd squeeze KQJT/AKQJ preflop and I really don't think he'd raise JJJ like this OTF. I think calling with JJJ and TTT is by far the best play given the strength of my range OTF and how tricky the turn SPR is going to be with DoThang stuck in the middle. Pot will be £178, DoThang will have exactly PSB back and we have ~£950 back i'm going to be bet-folding so such equity away there so often. Much better way to play the hand than just trying to get it in OTF vs a really strong range.

However it is iPoker so prolly leveling myself when he's just seen SET and gone RAISE

Once again, plo noob.

Is he not forced to raise with bare JJ/TT (no redraws) since any card above a 7 that doesn't pair the board sucks?

Or is trying to pile money in with a set aka face up range bad, when theres tonnes of gold behind?

Did we press the miraculous view previous hand button to see what happened?

Just seen this, don’t really play online but do play live quite a lot.

I’d raise to $350, the reason for the following reason

Dothang, is splashy/weaker player and has flat called so he could have top top, a gut shot or even some blockers like 99xx so he nearly goes broke all the time, Fruity knows this so any hand he has, will have far more equity against Dothang and getting you out the pot with a stronger hand would leave him against a weaker hand/draw
The $350 would virtually put Fruity all in if he were to call so he has a decision for his whole stack and whether his hand is strong enough to continue (from a 1-2 player live player you’d get an all in from drawing hands with one pair from a 2-5 5-10 live reg you’d get a fold with the same)

Fruity is almost certainly putting you on the type of hand that you have and knows that you can fold OOP with the next pot bet being a virtual all in.   
Don’t really think a flopped set raises to this amount on the flop either, he’s put in $150 feels like a level bet.

In my experience with similar stakes online the level of play online is far superior to live so disregard my opinion if you like…

Not really. I'm never folding the big wraps or 2p+open ended so all raising really does is isolate himself in a big pot against the strongest hands in my range, once he just flats he keeps the weakest hands I'm b/calling vs DoThang with in, you're right that 7's 8's and 9's really do suck as hands that those cards complete striaghts on are the ones that i'd have folded OTF, bt bearing in mind I opened UTG I'm likely to have a more Broadway dominated range.

If for e.g a Q rolls off OTT and I bet again to set DoThang in he can comfortably call and it's very hard for me to bluff him OTR when I HAVE to be bluffing with a hand that can beat DoThangs range and it's really very difficult for me to wanna turn those hands into bluffs unless I have the weakest 2p hands with blockers KKJT or something like that trying to get him off TTT or 89 but his range OTR CAN include striaghts and so can DoThang so really the hand is pretty easy to play on virtually any turn/river run out.

None of this means, as we all know, that none of this means he isnt just raising JJJ or TTT. I actually think how he should play HIS range here is a more interesting topic for conversation than how to play my specific hand (although its a kind of ropey spot for me also) its a spot where exploitatively its best for him to call his strongest hands and raise the weakest hands so theoretically I'm not sure how his entire range is best proceeding from the flop.

and folding to a flop 4bet?

I like the logic though, and agree with it seems like he is exclusively trying to freeze me out of the pot.

Not sure, I only see strong draws raising here and i guess a solid reg would have raised pre with a hand that would produce a solid draw.  I really can't see him betting you out the pot with JJJ or TTT as he needs to build a side pot if Dothang hits a draw and based on your OOP 3bet he's putting you on a specific range once you've raised to $350 on the flop so he'd more then likely want to build a side pot knowing that he's up against a hand like yours or a hand that also has blockers, KKJT 99JT KJT9

I'd be more worried if I get flatted here (I'd only want to see a J or club on the turn), so more then likely calling a 4bet...

Yeah $350/fold is absolutely godawful, you 100% have the correct price to call it off when you make it $350. $350/call is ok but not as good as potting. You have to know that he will view a smaller sizing as super strong and make some hero folds otherwise he has the correct price to call with his entire range. Basically, if we are raising we want to make him fold, and potting is a more effective way to do this unless you have some exploitative read.

All that said, there are only a handful of players in these games I would expect capable of r/f vs you and r/c vs dothang and I'd just go ahead and assume he isn't raise folding. I don't think we do well enough vs his range once he raises to call and get it in ott so I think folding is the best play. It's extremely close though and a really gross spot.

I'm not too sure about that - the idea is that we look like we have a superstrong hand that isn't folding, so he's not going to ship his wraps on us when they can't be a favourite, and he can do better by calling and folding board pairs.


This was my first thought. Why would a set raise this amount? Either it wants to raise a sizing that reopens the betting (ofc we can't completely discount the possibility he screwed up) or he wants to get as much money in as possible when he has the goods. This sizing is just weird and at best he thinks we think etc etc and he's hoping we level ourselves, but that's a stretch imo.

I think KQJT and AKQJ types of hands 3bet preflop most of the time. I'd expect his range to have a lot of hands like QJ98, that might be good against the fish shortstack but could get dominating hands like AAQ or KKJ to fold. I don't expect his pair + wrap hands to fold and I really don't mind ending the hand right now in this spot so I go ahead and pot.

Having said all that I'm not sure I think all that in-game, I may just say 'Very aggressive. A new day, and you won't be pushed around, but I reraise, 5000 (http://www.moviewavs.com/php/sounds/?id=gog&media=WAVS&type=Movies&movie=Rounders&quote=agressive.txt&file=agressive.wav)'