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Full Tilt Poker Game #32348757269: Table Dagda (6 max) - $2/$4 - No Limit Irish - 16:03:38 WET - 2013/03/21 [12:03:38 ET - 2013/03/21]
Seat 1: Mad4it4life ($413.10), is sitting out
Seat 2: rbkgutt ($154)
Seat 3: lildavefish ($616.80)
Seat 4: Vatal ($407)
Seat 5: sry2good4u ($1,722.30)
Seat 6: Draethen ($218.10)
Vatal posts the small blind of $2
sry2good4u posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to lildavefish [Jd 3c 9s 8d]
Draethen folds
rbkgutt folds
lildavefish raises to $8
Vatal calls $6
sry2good4u calls $4
*** FLOP *** [Kd Jh 2h] (Total Pot: $24, 3 Players)
Vatal checks
sry2good4u checks
lildavefish has 15 seconds left to act
lildavefish checks
*** DISCARD ROUND *** (Total Pot: $24, 3 Players)
Vatal discards
sry2good4u discards
15 seconds left to act
lildavefish discards [3c 9s]
*** TURN *** [Kd Jh 2h] [Jc] (Total Pot: $24, 3 Players)
Vatal bets $19.20
sry2good4u folds
lildavefish calls $19.20
*** RIVER *** [Kd Jh 2h Jc] [8s] (Total Pot: $62.40, 2 Players)
Vatal bets $49.90
Draethen adds $181.90
lildavefish ....

He bets 50 into 60with 320 behind...seems pretty solid but I dont really know ofc.

Raise-call/raise-fold/just call?

22/J2 more likely than KK/KJ right? With the % he is betting Jx to that size then call i guess.

thoughts on turn play?

DISCLAIMER: Literally no idea about the game but figured I'd throw my hat in the ring anyway. People normally love it when somewhat completely unqualified passes comment on matters, right? Right?!

I'd opt for raise-call. Would have thought KKxx would have been played different earlier, ie. 3b pre.

If he's flopped top two and housed up ott isn't 80% pot larger than we might expect from him ott in what has been a passively played pot to this point?

(Disclaimer still in play)

Same disclaimer obv, but it seems like there's some overvaluing of hands itt.

I'd just be calling the river. And the turn like you did.

Pretty sure that'd be just me...  ;marks;

Sorry totally missed we filled up!

Assumed we'd discarded 83, why did we discard 93 Dave? Knew it was coming?

Backdr fl draw> bad back dr st dr

As J9=J8 anyway

well played imo, now call

Never doing diff. Why would you? Its WA/WB and we have the added bonus of position. Plus really want to see his hand, has some benefit here long term imo

Hand seems simples, though I don't know much about irish - maybe river is close to raise/fold. I'd always just call and play the rest the same, possibly potting the button as I imagine people don't 3b all that much and are very peel happy. That's a complete guess btw.

I think this hand is slightly too weak to open, even on the BTN. This is based on the assumption that the average player is not folding his blinds very often in these games ATM (this could be wrong, I have only played a little bit of Irish on FTP since they launched it). If blinds are folding a decent % of the time (or playing very fit or fold postflop) then of course you can open almost any four... and this hand really does count as 'almost any four'.  It is a much weaker hand at Irish than at PLO, where it would obviously be a clear open.

Flop might be better to cbet since there are very few cards you can call with on the turn and you don't hate folding to a c/r in the slightest since you have such little equity. Don't mind checking back though, and in fact this might be best.

Discard decision is correct.

Turn fine... much less need to protect equity than in PLO.

River is close. Think I'd be inclined to raise/fold, but not much in it.

Nothing has changed my opinion that Irish is a crap game ;)

Clearly Stu has no idea what he's talking about.

Irish is an awesome game!!! :D

Just calling river although I think it's super close. Espec vs a readless unknown.

Copy and paste disclaimer (apart from the Cambridge Alex one where he didn't spot the boat...)

Is there a consideration here for bluff equity?

Soaking wet flop for 4-card poker but it whiffs. Villain could have checked flop to raise with KK but is it not more likely he bricks the last two streets and makes a play?

Hard then for me to assess whether we get value by raising the river, but I'd argue there's a fair chance we have hearts or a lone jack, so raising the river isn't out of the question as either a bluff or a thin value bet, is it?

If you would play it that way (and villain knows that), aren't you missing value by calling?

You may begin flaming/ignoring...NOW!

One point is that you can value bet (or raise) the river a little wider at Irish than at PLO. The top of ranges does not change too much when compared to PLO - at least not if the flopped nuts is still the nuts by the river, as in this hand. But what does change is the relative strength/composition of the middle part of players' ranges (both perceived and actual ranges). This is an effect of only having 2 cards rather than 4 from the flop onwards. Thus you can expect a raise to be called by any trips or better hand at Irish - and sometimes even a hand like AK - whereas this will not always be the case at PLO. This is why it is a rather easier raise at Irish than it would be at PLO. If you believe that this would almost be a value raise at PLO then that likely makes it a rather more comfortable (if thin) value raise at Irish.

Irish is still a crap game though IMO, even though there are a small number of slightly interesting subtleties to it.

never raise this in PLO without a very good reason.

Yh I realise the concept stu, although haven't got any examples lol

R.E the open I was just opening nearly every btn for min, no idea why was just going with the floowwwww

Ask Middy?

"I dunno mate, prolly just go all in"

he says as he wipes some nandos sauce off his chin, not sure if he even looked at the HH.

Did he at least look at the Nandos?

what nandos?

Not sure what i'd do, which seems to be the case in alot of situations in irish poker so far :) but i can't get enough of this game, most fun i've had playing poker in ages

Can someone please explain to me why they like Irish?

It removes all the good bits about PLO and leaves only the bad bits, and it removes all the good bits about NLHE and leaves only the bad bits.

In NLHE the bad thing is that no-one ever has a goddam thing... but then the good thing is that you can therefore do a lot of bluffing/thin value betting since you are not always scared of running into the flopped nuts.

In PLO the bad thing is that you always have to be careful of running into the flopped nuts... but the good thing is that you can have big daws against whatever the flopped nuts is.

Irish is a game almost designed to kill action. You always have to be careful of the flopped nuts being out there since everyone starts with 4 cards, yet it is impossible to have much of a draw vs the flopped nuts since you have to throw half your hand away. Worst of both worlds, best of none = crap game.

Why does noone play a game where you get dealt 2 and after the flop you get dealt another 2. That would be more fun!

Might patent it. DubaiDeal

Probably 'cause 99% of the poker i play is holdem, i don't mind PLO but have never really took to it, so i guess irish is different enough to seem fresh but still feels kinda familiar

YES. In for this

A nit game for nits imo. Dave's losing street cred pretty fast