blonde poker forum

50 euro weekly main event on winamax, NO reads on villain at all as basically just moved to this table and been there 1 orbit, <25 hands on him in total too so that information is irrelevant anyway.

Hero 108,833 @ 1250/2500/320... Villain 1 is BB and has 86,857

I open button to 5k with  Jc Jh, villain 2 (sb) playing ~140k peels and villain 1 peels the BB.

Flop - Ahrt Kh 8h ...   check/check/check

Turn - 7h ... check/8999/call/villain 2 folds

River -  7s ... Villain ALL IN for 72,858....

Hero?

Fold. It's 2x pot on river right? People are just so polarised here (esp on Winamax) and basically just always have it. Assume villain just has A7/K7/87/77 all the time here. Seems pretty heroic to call it off. You can still have all of those hands in your range too, obviously not AA/KK/88, but it seems pretty out there to think the guy would 2x pot shove here as a bluff... and all we have is an air-ball catcher.

Doesn't seem that interesting or trivial, folding this every day of week

Can't see this ever being a bluff and there's definitely no value range you beat.

I generally don't fold on winamax because they're all so French but think this might be a spot to fold, he's given you every chance to find the fold anyway. I mean, what's he really bluffing with in reality? He could be frogging about some of the time but think its rare and would fold here a lot of the time, people don't over bet bluff enough in general tbh and is almost always weighted towards value hands.

Agree with the above.

Could have boated the river and is jamming for value, praying someone has found the Qh, or maybe even has the Qh hoping to be called off with a hand similar to yours...

It is weird though because his bet on the turn is saying he has a flush, and is unlikely to be a set/two pair, whereas on the river he's saying he has a boat. Very strange jam if he has the Qh.

Either way it's like, lol ok, you win, nh.

Not saying this is in villains mind at all, but we don't have a hand in our range that calls this river jam ever. Except quads I guess.

thoughts on cbetting flop?

Ty for the responses. My thought process was exactly the same as you guys, which brought me to the FOLD. However, saying this I'm snapping off anything up to like 1.2x pot OTR.. (where I can still beat an oddly sized value range) but 2x pot (and ALL IN) was just like meh, fold. Saying that as well, in my head my thought process actually highlighted Alex's point of, if the villain is on the ball he will realize there is only tiny combo of hands I can actually call this bet with, so can just pile and win the pot LOTS.

So I guess it is kind of a trivial spot but when the Villain actually shows  Qs Tc, after I've excruciatingly wasted by full time bank then folded, it's kind of emotionally crippling and I felt violated. At least until I coolered someone hard and doubled back 10 mins later. Then I was fine.

I think I'm just always checking back the flop (unless certain reads gained) vs 2 players and these stack sizes here. If I get check raised I'm going to have to fold, which would suck balls. People (whales) love check bombing when they hit an Ace on the flop in these kind of spots too. You think c-betting would be better dude?

dont really see how we can fold here vs the sizings, his, especially europeans wont go for thin value with 2 pair like this on the turn, especially not this sizine and on the river will not value bet nut flushes like this.

wtf/call?

He won't value bet small flushes like this of course but he could easily value shove the  Qh, knowing I can't really have a better hand, only 77 really. Easy for villain to shove a house too expecting to get a stubborn call from  Qh, Jh, Th. 90% of players have probably never 2x pot shoved as a bluff OTR in their entire career too? I don't think I have lol.

pretty sure he never bets qh like this otr.

trivial fold imo

I'm sure there's plenty of French fish that'll over value a nut flush even on a paired board. But I suppose not many of them will over bet still.

Langley confirmed nit!

Really interested in how you can be pretty sure? We have no reads what so ever on this random European villain? But anyway, what should we be calling off with here then in your opinion?

Pads surely if you're calling Jh here you're calling all flushes?

No be E he could be like oh flush ott and then oh bluff otr . There's not that many hearts I wouldn't cbet anyway

u cbet JJ here pads?

I think I like jack's check back tbh.

I meant most hearts worse than a ten I don't see myself checking flop

I think cbetting flop is a must as you would bet all your value and total air also. Plus I think the hand plays out differently of we cbet.

Don't think I'd even be betting much total air on this board?

I think checking back is fine/best play.

yeh never cbetting air on this board

low hearts are not total air though?

I also would check back JJ otf btw, we have sdv and also can improve to a pretty great hand.

Yh agreed, betting smaller hearts but obv as a semi-bluff. No total air, would be bad I think.

I'm probably going to c-bet the  Th here too though, unless I've got a gut-shot too maybe? So as played we only get to the river with the Jh. I'm normally such a hero-caller too! Such a shame.

Dont really understand the issue of c-betting. you can cbet 33% of pot, which tbh will just take it down most of the time. Not many sets/2 pair or even top pair in Villian's Range.

If you are going to check, then checking your nutted range AA/KK/AK/Flopped Flushes helps to stay unexploitable. But if you always check the middle part of your range then this can be exploited