blonde poker forum

Hello, wise heads.

I will be in Vegas this summer for a couple of weeks and intend to play some non-holdem stuff. I've wussed out of doing so previously but have resolved I shall give it a go this time round.

I don't play a lot online but, when I do, it tends to be small stakes Omaha or stud variants, chiefly Heads Up and almost exclusively SNGs.

So, limit cash is a little bit into the lions' den but 4/8 or 8/16 is fairly likely to be the lowest LimitO8 around, so I need to get some of the basics locked up.

Not having much experience of full tables, I'll play a little between now and when I go, but I'd welcome the advice of Blonde and its 'only too happy to help' attitude. Maybe best that I do it this way:

1. Assuming I were playing ABC, what would opening requirements look like in early position, mid position and late?
2. Is 3-betting Pre-flop likely to isolate or is it more an exercise to take hands down on later streets?
3. Having options both ways is naturally a good idea, but I'd often check it down HU if I had only one end, so, in a full limit game, should I be looking to get value more often, at the risk of getting quartered?
4. I'm surmising that aiming high is effective in weak games, where people can get too attached to the low draws, so multi way pots could see me still winning half. Is that fair?
5. What are the common misconceptions NLHE players have when they sit down?

Thanks in advance, as they say.

I think you sum up what you should do pretty much there. My experience at Venetian 4/8 is 3 betting bloats pots more than narrows field but if you hold then its good.

Venetian best for 8/16 and 15/30, Orleans 4/8 with grumpy old women of both sexes.

Sun Coast in Summerlin has a regular 2-10 Spread limit Stu8/b game if you fancy something out of the ordinary and I think Bellagio has a 7CS 8/b limit game

I reckon - & hope - you & me might spend many a happy hour playing this in Vegas this year.

I only know one thing about these games. Don't ever be trying to get folks to fold pre. Ain't gonna happen. Which, of course, is fine, but best to know the devil you dance with.

Best players in these games are generally knarled old veterans - older than Ralph I mean - who just sit there quietly, chewing their baccy, & know exactly where they are. Dont mess with these boys, they know the score.

It'd be fantastic to share tables with you playing this.

Cliffs of Tikay's post:

 ;kev;  ;yippee;  ;fishing;  $$$$$

Good stuff, chaps. As many who can offer words of guidance, please do so. Always keen to get a steer.

Tournaments I am a little more comfortable with, as there are enough basic tourney principles to enable me not to look a complete tool every hand. But again, any thoughts more than welcome.

How could it not be fun? Second best city on Earth (behind Birmingham obv) in 120 degree heat. Magic

Been my game of choice in Vegas for years now.

1. Generally you can play with really tight opening requirements FR.  It's pretty hard for anyone to exploit 'tight' 9 handed.
2. = Bigger pot.  Only by confronting people with a double-bet do you have any chance of driving them out.
3. You are missing the main reason to bet.  Let's say you have a set for hi and no low.  You want to bet on innocuous looking boards, because checking it down and watching someone turn over 6-8 for the lo and no hi hand is a disaster.
4.  Knowing when you are going the opposite direction to multiple opponents is key.  No easy way to do this, you have to watch and see what hands are getting turned over.  Usually, the best chance is when you have the hi and everyone else is playing passively with a naked A2 (and sometimes A3) 
5.  Lots of the grizzled old vets play against each other each day.  I have rarely had cause to suspect foul play, but getting whip-sawed in split pot games isn't fun.  Keep an eye out for that, and also money (particularly bills in the larger games) getting weeded off.  Neither is a big enough reason not to sit in the game imo.  I'm not sure if the misconception question for NLHE refers to you, or to tourists dropping in on random occasions.  If the former, make sure you have a nut hand or a draw to it in FR, and/or a decent 2way hand where possible.  If the latter, assume the NLHE tourist will not be showing up with the nut hand as often.  A couple of showdowns will soon tell you what you need to know and you can then be fairly confident punishing them in 3way pots where they are 2nd best both ways.

Last year, you needed to be in the V game before midday to get a seat.  Sometimes the games went all evening, other times they were in danger of breaking when the vets went to dinner ~ depends on whether there are feeder games going.

For later night action, the O8 games in Rio were very juicy, but I was usually too pissed to be able to play them.

Venetian was getting better at starting feeder games when I went in March. Most days 3/4 tables of 4/8 2 or 3 8/16 1 15/30 and occasionally a 8/16 mix game too. PLO8 was dead in March 1 or 2 PLO hi games 1/2/5 (min bet 5).

If you get in need of a really wild game they have Limit Omaha High at Boulder Station normally 3 tables in evening 2-6 spread. Most pots were $100 + but you needed showdown hands bluffing was not to be recommended :)

SimonG, the NLHE question was in terms of others but I'm not bonkers enough to think it doesn't extend to me ;)

T'other Simon, I'm def open to possibilities. Most of my poker will be NLHE Tournaments but I shall be sure to diversify this time.

You'll get the random ice cream sit down.  Of the daily players, some are insanely loose, others a pretty snug.  Most don't leave the gate without A-2-baby-baby but some will play funky hands around the back too. 

See you in the game.. I'll be the one calling every bet down every street in every hand...

Seriously though, for a decent shot at winning a tiday amount, the late night Rio cash games are where it is at.

A fair few of the 25 from our forum going out are hilo players, so there has been discussions about descending on the Orleans one night to play.

I was thinking about trying to set a home game of sorts up at the Nugget, and that way we can slowroll each other to death without having to travel :)

I presume they'll be ok with us starting our own cash game if there are 6 or more players?

Orleans spread 2/4 and 4/8 O8. But you will be sitting down with the dregs of society and your presence will instantly half the table age average.

I played the 8/16 mix in the Aria when it finally got going last time I was there, the aggression in this game was significantly higher than the Orleans.



3. Having options both ways is naturally a good idea, but I'd often check it down HU if I had only one end, so, in a full limit game, should I be looking to get value more often, at the risk of getting quartered?

Youre looking to make people fold.  In split pot games, you make lots of money when you can make people fold out any equity in the pot they currently have.

Will people fold on the turn? Easier in PLO8 to get folds where they know a bigger bet is coming on the end. In limit, you call the turn if/because you're calling the river.

In practice, when so many will be deep, what should I expect to see?

Theres a reg 6/12 HORSE at Nugget on Tuesday's organised by Tom McEvoy which will probs run still while you're out there.

Its a very subtle game O8, way more complex than people think.

average age itt?

Lower than the average age of any random O8 game in Vegas.

As it goes, I have just subscribed to Deuces Cracked, and downloaded all the O8 videos, as well as some other mixed games to watch too. However, I'm trying to engineer a winning trip for myself this year, and if I'm lighting money on fire there had better be  strippers around!

The other guys all play mixed games though, so they will possibly look to get involved in that. I was thinking about getting some 2/4 going, with some form of drinking games involved too :)

In my 30s, look like 40s and move like 70s  :P

50, look 60, body feels like a 70 year old though :)

Now you gotta tell us more.

I'd be up for some $2/$4 mixed games. I'm in Vegas the same time as Tal (June 16th-30th)

::) Another shark in the tank.

Shotgun on your left.

We're all arriving at the Nugget over the space of a few days from the 19th onwards, and we might have enough to run our own tournament at this rate :)

Were leaving the encore for three nights to stay at the nugget 21st, 22nd, 23rd, so Im sure we'll see you guys around.  Will prob be playing the nuggert's 08 tourney on the saturday, and possibly the guys and dolls tourney on the Sunday, if I can drag my better half away from the low limit paigow tables.

I arrive on the 21st too, but will probably just be chilling out over the weekend. Claude's Bar in the middle of the casino was homebase last year, and no doubt will be again :)

The first comp I'm going to play is the PLO8 at Binions on the 23rd, and then the ROE at the Nugget on Monday. Pai Gow is another game I've yet to learn, I don't know any table games. Generally my MO is to just flick $50 into a syndicate and hope that it returns something...

Booked!

Claude's Bar, PLO8 or ROE?

Also, have you ever eaten at Le Thai?

Seen some good reviews online, so gonna give it a spin as it's on Fremont anyway.

Haven't been... but count me in!

For Thai have either used LemonGrass when feeling lazy or Lotus Of Siam, which is pretty good but a ballache to get back from.

I booked you on the syndicate :D  But I'm sure I will have a beer or 7 at some point at Claude's and Omaha has been known to break out afterwards...

P.S.   I knew it would take some time, but I'd getcha!

It's meant to be only 2 minutes from the Nugget, hopefully they take walk ins and I think it's open all day too. I've only driven past Lotus of Siam with Vinnie, Dean and a few others when we went to play pool. I will say that it's definitely not the kind of area you want to be climbing out of a limo at 10pm!!

Ah right ;D I just get bored after a while and just make use of the free drinks. There will generally always be a few of us there most nights, and it appears we should be able to get an O8 game running easily enough  :)