blonde poker forum

...but not so many great players and even fewer great teams.

Shankly, Fergie, Stein, Graham, Brown, Moyes, Busby, Smith, Docherty

Players?

Dalglish, Law, Johnstone, Hanson ummmmm now I'm struggling

Teams

The Celtic European Cup winning team.

So, any reason for this?

Reason they are good managers

They are scottish and therefore they shout angrily

Footballers are thick and only understand shouting


pretty much sums it up

Shankly rarely raised his voice, but everyone listened to him and done exactly what he told them.

Busby ditto, and for the most part, Moyes too.

You're really struggling at 4 players? One of which is Alan Hansen?

Think I could add another 10 without effort or google.

There are also players thay never went to England, would be less known,
but were still great players

I'm no football expert but couldn't Souness play a bit?

Yes, I'm struggling.

Souness? Bremner? McGrane?

meh to all of them.

Give me some more.

The lack of great teams/competition in Scotland means almost by definition a player who played his whole career in Scotland can hardly be called great.

To be great you have to succeed against the best.

And if you say Gordon Strachan, I'm not listening to any of your other picks.

I'lll give you McKay.

I won't give you the others.

Wouldn't get anywhere near a world XI of their time.

Whereas many of my managers list would be qualified to manage a world XI.

if i can find the book (its here somewhere!) i will quote a few names and what they said about mcgrain

i am not sure moyes, smith (presumed walter?) or "home before the postcards" would have much shot at a world x1 managers role?

Moyes is just about to take the reins at the biggest football club in the world.

Must be doing something right.

Too simple to say that most are from ordinary/working class backgrounds so have an in-built attitude to work hard?

Similar to why Liverpool/Merseyside produces such a large % of the professionals in this country (all leagues)

More interesting is how many people who have managed in the premier league are from Glasgow.

Fergie, Dalgleish, Moyes, Coyle, Kean, McLeish and Lambert. A couple of years ago, they were all managing in the Prem.

Scotland has a population of ~5 million.
I think they have historically had a good representation of very good players/teams considering that figure (Uruguay are the only comparable one I think of). You can obviously argue forever over which player is or isn't world class.
But it's the figure for high quality managers that they produce that is way, way out of kilter. It's absolutely off the charts.

So really your question is somewhat the wrong way round.
How can Scotland, with such a small population, produce so many top managers?

Oh and Aberdeen + Dundee United of the early/mid 1980s were right up there with the best of Europe. A much more level playing field than today so differences between top and middling teams was much less but they were very strong sides.

Comparable population to Denmark, Sweden and Holland.

I would argue all those 3 countries have more genuinely great players than Scotland.

Denmark yes, Sweden and Holland no. Sweden ~10 million, Holland ~20 Million?

Denmark had one truly golden generation team, a statistical anomaly. You think Denmark has more great players cos you've seen ALL the great Danish players on tv whereas you've never heard of most of the great Scottish ones.
If it didn't happen in the Sky generation, it doesn't count.
You're just another Sky generated pub expert  :)

 ;hide;

Scotland has one of the top coaching courses in the world which is maybe the reason for some of the great managers.  Mourinho did his coaching qualifications there.

Our facilities/coaching methods to develop players arent quite as good.

fair point but he at this point has had a managerial career with no trophies at all which must count for something

Billy Baxter

Jimmy Johnstone

Alan Gilzean

Gary McAllister was an excellent player (from the Sky era). Not done so well as a manager though.

and a v poor record vs the stronger teams above him, if im not mistaken

Peter Marinello.

I put Johnstone in the OP.

Gilzean not thanks.

Never heard of Baxter.

You said you could think of 10 without googling!

Maths isn't my strong point, but I think you're a wee bit short.

Hotshot Hamish.

I know they played for that mob down the road but Dave Makay and that kid White who got struck and killed by lightning on the golf course were both pretty good.

Gilly was a decent player too, as was Kenny Burns.

Ha!

Heaththrob Peter.....


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10 without googling? Easy.

You never even mentioned John Greig!

Think tikay meant, Billy's brother, Jim Baxter :)

Ahh, you may, technically, be correct there.

Archie Gemmel
Colin Hendry
Barry Ferguson ;)

Davie cooper?

Mackay arguably made Clough a success at Derby. IIRC he said he couldn't believe spurs let Mackay go.