blonde poker forum

Game is £2/5 at the Hippo, we're relatively short-handed (5 players in hand one, 6 players in hand 2). One chap covers (we are two to his left), other than that I cover playing c£1300.

Hand 1

Chap who covers opens to £15 UTG, young chap (recently joined and presumed competent based on demeanour, who he has arrived with, chip handling etc.) 3bets to £40 utg1 having sat with £1k.

We find  Jh Jd utg2, which is also the BTN. We flat (probable/certain mistake?)

Blinds fold, opener folds and we flop:

 Ks 2s Kh (£102)

Utg1 bets £75 (three black chips). We call. Thoughts?

Turn  Th (£252)

Utg1 bets £150, we call. Thoughts?

River  4h (£552)

Utg1 bets £235. WWYD?



Hand 2

Relatively weak player limps utg playing c£400. Villain from previous hand iso's BTN to £20, we peel from SB (playing £825) with  Ks Js.

BB folds, limper calls.

Flop:  Kh  Td 4s (£67)

Ck, ck, OR makes it £30. We call, limper calls.

Turn:  Jd (£157)

Ck, ck, OR makes it £100. We call, limper now jams £345.

OR (covers) flats.

WWYD?

hand 1) I'd 3bet pre-flop, good to let these types know straight away you're here to play and you wont be allowing them easy table captaincy, so I'd be looking for anything to 3b him with here, JJ as a premium would be ideal! Flatting is fine as well really given stacks and we wouldn't REALLY know what to do against a 4bet.

Flop calling really is the only play, I think the turn and river are quite close, I think calling turn and folding river is OK given you have JJ but the way these young whipper-snappers play you're going to have to call off on the river lighter than you are comfortable with. I'm not sure you can fold the turn really, and as odd as it sounds I think i'd rather call a bigger river bet than this!

hand 2) all seems wp/stnd up to here, I think flatting IP here and jammig OOP is the best play, problem with calling is we give him the opportunity to play rivers perfectly vs us. Very hard for us to value bet our hand once we call, I'd just shove, we only have £500 more right?

Hand 1 has already been 3b by the whippersnapper ;) We are on the BTN (also utg2).....fancy a 4b? I left it alone as didn't want to 4b/fold, didn't particularly want to 4b/6b etc. Thoughts?

As played I felt like at no point through the streets could I really fold? The minute I called the turn the seatbelt was on for the river bomb, but then he bet £235 into c£550....?! I'd have expected a larger wager here with or without the goods?

Hand 2 we are OOP (sb). Agree with flatting the £100 ott? Then when OR flats the limpers ck/jam we jamming ourselves owing to being OOP and wanting to negate river shenanigans? We're playing like £700 back on the turn so c£450 over the £345 turn ck/rs from the limper.

oh i see

yh i think i'd justt 4b/get £1k in there with the JJ.

yup all fine to me hand 2 just shoving now when the guy calls, not great mind we can defo defo be beaten but folding not really an option imo and pots to sticky to flat imo.

Cool.


Seems a lot of bigs? What are you thinking as a 4b size over the £40 3b? Like £110, or bigger?

Hand 1 - mehhhhh think it's close between doing what u did (pre) and 4b/6b (£105 4bet seems about right IP btw). As played flop obv fine, turn is almost a fold I think. River seems like a fold too, but yr hand is pretty faceup by then, one of the best hands you get to the river with, and we're folding it so might be vexpoitable to fold this here. Tough.

Second one doesnt seem tough on the face of it. Wp hand if you folded to the £345 jam then flat. You are beat very often here.

 ;carlocitrone;

dave's probably right lol, i may have missed something, but id be hating life here. one of them has us beat surely?

pretty optimistic to put them both on worse hands?

I think I agree with you (sorry Dave!!).

Reckon Hand One is perhaps more interesting? Think once I have just peeled pre and with the runout in question the options on both turn and river are pretty tricky?

Disagree with Dave re: preflop on hand 1. 4b/get it in with JJ seems too optimistic 200bb's deep with no dynamic or read on our opponent except that he's young and handles chips well. I think given the ease at which money flies around down in London there a lot of the regs develop very nitty, straightforward styles, so i'd be wary of levelling myself without a decent bit of knowledge first. I'd probably call turn in hand 1, fold river though. He could have picked up some turn equity with hearts or be barreling but by the river his range and betsizing is just decently strong.

Hand 1 4 bet because when they fold its good and when they call its good.  Kind of a bit tricky when they 5 bet but still not going to be terrible getting it in, also you can peel depending on sizings if they 5 bet and play the hand in posiiton.  Problem with cold calling a 3 bet is everybody puts you 99/1010/JJ.

Hand 2 fold, not loving life when the fish shoves let alone when a competent player over calls.

Yep, should def have 4 bet Hand 1. As played....at what point do we fold, if at all?

Hand 2, agree.

Cheers

Hand 1:

 I dont mind 4betting or calling. Flatting allows weaker parts of ranges to stay in the hand and getting more bets off weaker hands which they fold pre to 4bet. Also lets you pot control when your new to how the villain is playing.

Like Keith says, taking it down pre is never bad, and if he peels, we play the hand in position with a good hand, readless i think you can prob fold if he 5 bets.

As played, im calling flop and turn and folding river, not enough people are capable of the 3 barrels, and if he is, tap the table.


Hand 2:

Im folding when the jam gets called, just dont see how this doesnt have us beat.  Ad Kd or  Kd Xd maybe, but theres a chance we could be drawing almost dead vs both players. Play the same up unitl then.

Raise turn in hand 2?

Fold > Shove > Call in hand 1

Sigh flick it in with hand 2

Hand 1 jam river.

Hand 2 just call and fold to further river action.

mmmm i think im missing something in hand 2. What does everyone have? the shorter stack surely doesnt have AQ/QT/KK/JJ ? So that's 44, KJ?

The other guy, TT, KK, JJ, AQ - alll very possible but way weaker hands as well, he'snot folding AK here is he?

Not loving it but I wouldn't fold.

The reason I would 4b and not do anything else in the JJ hand is because the hand actually plays badly post-flop, you'll be bluff-catching/guessing most of the time on most run-outs and your kicking off your session with this player weakly, 4betting sets a strong precedent, we're miles ahead of his 3betting range + by the time we've 4bet we'll be getting enough of a price to just go with it imo.

I think it's a common mistake people make not to 3 or 4 bet hands that are ahead of an opposition range but would play kinda meh vs a 4 or 5 bet, this is ok when you have a hand that plays nicely down the streets like KQs/AQs etc but most of the time people are just a bit scared of having to get 200bb in with JJ without some chunnky history - it's not always easy, sometimes you have to take more marginal spots cant just get set vs top pair in every time.

The whole problem with hand 1 is the pre flop action.  Basically you have no real idea what opponent has pre where as because you cold flatted pre he can put you pretty accurately on the hand you have.
I'd say he either has some middling King most of the time and is trying to get value versus a middle pocket pair - it's not totally out of the question that he has a bluff by the river but i doubt you are good that often.  I'm prob calling flop then folding turn or river most of the time i think.  As for jamming the river in theory it's good  because villain rarely has a super strong hand but in practice I find a lot of players just flick it in with any kx hand.