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PokerStars Hand #98584339850: Tournament #2013050083, $1000+$50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2013/05/14 22:18:15 WET [2013/05/14 17:18:15 ET]
Table '2013050083 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: happyfister (5420 in chips)
Seat 2: Elmagico19A1 (5170 in chips)
Seat 3: GaggleoKings (5560 in chips)
Seat 5: pablox55 (4920 in chips)
Seat 6: darek12 (3600 in chips)
Seat 7: G's zee (4820 in chips)
Seat 8: huiiiiiiiiii (5410 in chips)
Seat 9: tRaMp$d0PrAy (5050 in chips)
GaggleoKings: posts small blind 10
pablox55: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GaggleoKings [Kh Kc]
darek12: folds
G's zee: folds
huiiiiiiiiii: raises 40 to 60
tRaMp$d0PrAy: folds
happyfister: folds
Elmagico19A1: raises 120 to 180
GaggleoKings: calls 170
pablox55: folds
huiiiiiiiiii: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [9h 9s 4c]
GaggleoKings: checks
huiiiiiiiiii: checks
Elmagico19A1: bets 298
GaggleoKings: calls 298
huiiiiiiiiii: folds
*** TURN *** [9h 9s 4c] [5c]
GaggleoKings: checks
Elmagico19A1: bets 675
GaggleoKings: calls 675
*** RIVER *** [9h 9s 4c 5c] [3h]
GaggleoKings: checks
Elmagico19A1: bets 1498
GaggleoKings: ???

Villain totally unknown to me as i assume i am to him (0 hand on HUD) - locked on tracking sites (i tanked river hard on this decision)

Call / fold / sickojam?

would lead turn and river and fold if we get raised, ppl get scared with jj and qq and dont bet river and i dont think you get tripled or even doubled here in level 1.

as played think its a fold due to his sizing.

Bet otr was fast btw, like 2/3 secs

His bet sizing pre doesn't look like aces and suggests he may not be that great.  Not sure what other hand we should be scared of.   I assume we didn't 4 bet pre so we could trap on this board?  

Stop slowrolling and call.  

Really? in a $1k buyin event?

Can you expand on this? If you asked me what size I'd expect an unknown to 3b AA to here I'd snap go with 180

hmm disagree, it would be std siying id assume.

Definitely not raising as I can't see an unknown without history calling worse or folding better. Think it's defo more likely that they fold better (just Aces!) than call jacks or queens but don't see either happening really,

I think we have a better hand than were supposed to have here and villain can defo be value betting some stuff we beat like jacks/queens and bluffing with AK/AQ.

I can't for the life of me think how he can have 9x or boats so we almost have the very best hand it possible to have which mandates a call more than anything, I'd think.

well raising for value is obv out of the question, dont think thats close.


jam would be a bluff, potentially sexy heh.

This is a cool line i think

Seems genuinely quite a horrible spot esp with his river bomb but i think i would grit my teeth and call the river. We should lose to AA only and i feel like it's just a cooler if he has that exact hand. Given villain is an unknown in a scoop there's just a slightly higher probability you're up against something silly/overplayed

I think there is a tendency for people to do something different with aces.  Aren't these sizings more standard heads up?  (It is a long time since I played a heads up SNG)

I am not saying he never has aces, just I'd be expecting them more often if he had raised to 120 pre. 

I am fairly glad this is early so I can call without going bust, but still calling.  Is it standard to assume unknown/ sharkscope hidden is more likely bad than good?

Think bluff shoving looks bad.  I don't ever expect unknowns to fold aces whatever I do.

The hand is obviously nasty, if he does have aces then he can value town us easily given our pre flop call.  I guess villain isn't ever thinking we are cold calling T9s here.

As youve showed no strength at all, and the guy is completely unknown (though a quick 2p2 search shows he's probably a thinking player), I would expect him to bet QQ and maybe even JJ for value just as often as AA given the way the hand played out.

Might make life easier by bet folding river?

Pleno - you say you'd fold due to sizing.

What size bet do you call?

What about pre?

Since you are in the SB, and you've cold called 3 bets, doesn't everybody know you've got KK, AA and a bit of QQ here- Do we ever play 22 or JJ or AK or T9 s this way? OK so we are very deep, but it seems easy to play perfectly against us with whatever the button has got since our hand is face up. (maybe I suck and I should cold call 3 bets oop with T9 a bit?)

I'd have though cold 4 betting was better since we could be bluffing some of the time.

less than 1k

Never getting kings in good for 250bbs in this comp this early so no reason to 4> 6.

River bet is literally never a bluff, its always for value. I'd call the the river myself in game. But we must realise that the unknown (to us, but easy to assume he's not bad, because very few are in 1ks) is 3betting an early position open from an extremely strong competent player, whom himself will have an opening range of AQs/AKo/TT+, so not terrible to assume the 3b range is stronger than this. I agree that it would be reasonable for him to assume we have a QQ+ range ourselves, so I don't really see how he can expect to 3 barrel QQs for value vs us. Just my thoughts. As you were.

after this tournament u should probablz just get it in, everybody saying this morning it was the spewiest 1k they ever played and everybody was out to war.

he may also call your 4bet...

Yeh you're so deep and he's IP that he'll peel the 4 fairly wide, and if we're worried about being so faceup, perhaps take some funky line postflop? He's not gonna fold AKs ip to 4bet, nor will he fold some of his 3b bluffs like T9s, he might peel QQ/JJ etc too. Also he could 5bluff some % which is good for us, and its not impossible he'll get in AK/QQ so I'd 4bet pre here.  

Does he bet QQ like this on the river do we think?

I'd find it v hard to fold the river here when I can talk myself into him playing QQ like this always, and maaaybe JJ, and non0% of bluffs.

no he doesnt bet qq like this otr, i dont think

i think its a fold but ive seen results obv.

Just looked back. Man his sizings are flex on every street. I'd be hero'ing this all day long.

Don't really like a c/jam otr, its quite difficult to flop quads, there's nothing else we rep, so he'd snap AA imo.

think bet folding river the best plan.

If there was any 3b sizing I could see in this spot and not be able to read anything into then it's 180. Seems pretty standard.

Might fold the river but given that this is the absolute top of our range we probably shouldn't. Kinda sucks that his sizing makes it less likely he is going for thinner value. I probably call given that some of the time he can be value betting QQ (maybe less likely with the larger sizing) and could be bluffing (maybe very infrequently but certainly more than never) and if I'm folding KK here I'm just folding 100% of the time to the river bet but still expect to see AA or 9x a reasonable amount.

I don't mind playing the hand like this pre for deception if it fits with your image (i.e. you're perceived to be deece wide/splashy and people will value bet thin) but generally this is just a fistpump 4b. Call three times as played, he vbets QQ and maybe even JJ, has a none 0 bluff% and doubtful he'l fold aces if you jam. Both donking or check jamming are very stupid plays, I think.

Im keen to hear an explanation as to why leading out on the river is stupid.....

these mtt guys just dont bet this much with jj otr imo.

But even so, theres still as many combo's of QQ as there are AA.  Plus theres money in the middle.

I actually think I like leading out.  If we think he's never bluffing, we get to say how much we lose if he comes over the top, plus we can still get some value from QQ/JJ/TT and save ourselves the headache of having to call this huge bet without a clue where were at.

He'l bet hands that would call a bet and bluff some when checked to. We rep no air after cc twice on this board and I'd only really like cc cc lead if it's some sort of exploitation of knowing he'l go balist allowing us to bet call. Also bad for our range but not that's not particularly relevant. Only advantage I can see is that we don't have to show down and we cultivate something of a fishy image.

Oh yeh of course, what was I thinking....

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKF_9ZSCR3U

I'm really not a fan of bet folding river. I think its just a good solid fold here 1st level. cant seehim bluffing and we are readless. and i really doubt hes making that size with qq. but he might.