blonde poker forum

We are in the bb with

66 Qd10d 33 (maybe have baby hearts, cant remember)


I think its £9 pre with 4 other people in the pot.

We peel realising I have to really hit a flop before any money goes in...


FLOP
Ad 6d 7s


I check, check, pot (52), call, fold..... we???

I have ~350, 220 behind, potter has 300 and caller covers all...............


Options? Plans? Thoughts??

Fold pre. Fold flop.

Fold now. Should have folded pre, you've got a bag of spanners x

6 o is about nut peddling oop multi way

It is impossible to 'really hit a flop' with this hand.

U have to go alin now and pray for 6 on the turn or Kd on the turn . FOLD PRE NEXT TIME

So this flop doesn't count as hitting??

What kind of hand/ flop are reasonable peels in this spot???

What they all said.

100% FOLD Pre.

100% FOLD flop.

You are going to get in an awful mess with starting hands like this in 6 Card.

Bottom set on a flushing straighting board, (even with one non-nut draw), in 6 Card is going to put you in a world of hurt, time after time. Train wreck incoming. 

If I may suggest....

1)  Do some work on starting hand criteria.

2) Try & master 4 card before moving to 6.  

Sounds like fantastic advice. +1

I tend to view pretty much everything on the flop as a draw of some kind, whether its a draw to a brick or whatever. So what we actually have here is the second nut flush draw and the worst possible FH draw. There are basically two good cards in the deck for us on the turn, namely the case 6 and the  Kd. Pretty much everything else leaves us with what should be the very bottom of our range both ways. In 6o, I may not even count the second nut flush draw as a draw, more as multiple blockers for the guy with the nut flush draw. If I get it in to find that any FD that isn't the nut FD is live, that's a bonus, not a given.

Interested in people's thoughts on this view, as I'm very much still learning this game.

+1 for fold pre.

Also, +1 for WHERE ARE YOU JOHN WE MISS YOU COME DTD :)

Completely agree...

I'm very aware of my ability in omaha and only agree to play it when its ROE and a good lineup.

In this case it was indeed a very good lineup.

Funny part is I actually play holdem a little looser than I should and omaha a little tighter. 
I didn't particularly love my spot in this instance, but I did think that a set AND a good fd was a reasonable 'hit': hence the thread. 

Ended up in a flip and did not win.  But from the sounds of it I was lucky to be in a flip.

thanks

I don't think you do........

In 6 card, you can't get "looser" than Q-10-6-6-3-3! That is the equivelant of 7-2 off in NLH. OOP.

Don't even think about your position on the Flop, that is secondary. Cure the cause, not the effect - the cause was the pre-flop call. Cure that, the secondary problem does not arise.  

Wow!

One off the Bucket List.

Wait till LilDave & StuBadger see that. In yer eyes boys.

I love playing PLO with holdem players.

Now THAT is bum-hunting.

yep fold pre-flop

no choice but to fold now really, you wouldn't be completely unforgiven for getting it in now (might get some folds, might catch someone inexperienced getting it far too light) but this wouldn't be the mistake, the mistake was playing this hand pre-flop, the fact that you have completely nailed the flop and everyone is saying we have to fold should be as good an example of how big a mistake you made pre-flop.

As a point of advice, John, in speculative PHA questions when there are so many total wizards patrolling the thread, I find it better to give elaborate and occasionally flamboyant descriptions of the surroundings. Such things as:

1. The villain
2. Any mannerisms
3. humidity
4. Location of valets (perhaps by reference to a clock)
5a. time since you last had a drink
5b. Time since villain last had a drink
6. Whether dealer deals the flop one card at a time or the three card slide
7. Whether villain is hooded (this is crucial)
8. Which song is playing on nearby dreBeats brah
9. Boxers or briefs (some people are curious)
10. Why the heck you called pre

Eagerly await the next one, sir.

I did think this was on the looser side... but I didn't realise it was this bad.

Have self banned from O games for a while, much to many people here's disappointment.



Just for the record :

The only other hand I played was where I cr and shoved AA35JQ nut hearts n diamonds...

on 935hh4s......


also horrid??

Don't play much Omaha, but from the little I do know, hands like 2233 and 3355 etc in 4-card Omaha are considered pretty bad given flopping bottom set and getting it in you're usually not in amazing shape. For this reason I would assume hands like 3366xx are terrible in 6-card because you have to be exponetially more nutted post and have nutted draws etc, so this kind of hand is going to be awful... like one of the worst possible, for the exact reasons shown here, you've flopped bottom set... the 3rd nuts... and it's widely accepted to be a fold.

Gotta peddle those nuts in this game. I'm even worse at this than I am at holdem but in that hand you are getting called by worse approximately 0% of the time.

Game of Rocks

Some good comments itt.

Tbh since you're new to Omaha the mistake you made playing this hand is one I'd completely expect you to. Almost all players who are learning or new to 4/5/6 card PLO will overplay certain pairs or AQ AKxx type hands because of how much stronger they are in unlimited hold em

what?

we have 35 on 9354?

I'd love to know what % of people who have posted in this thread would actually have folded this handed on the flop in a live game.

NFD low straight blocker and 2pr!!!

this seems horrific as well JB

Noone gets to the flop

Me. 100%

Even if uber pissed. Even if you are in front now you won't be the river. You have 1 out with f all invested.

It's a 100% fold but not 100% of the time.

The starting hand is like the kind of shit you have to play when in the big blind or straddle in an unraised pot surely? 

You need to flop quads or give up. I do like reading PLO 6 hands though.

Does anyone think its nearly 90% tagging a live players style and tailoring your play to that? It's like this hand is a fold pre in nearly all games but you know when the table is juicy you want to get involved and play maybe weaker players it becomes playable.

Well that is like the nut opposite way to play. There are a whole bunch of combos that you can start a hand with that are impossible to play out profitably which mainly involve under sets and non nut re draws. This hand is full of them.

Sounds like a good game though.

Yup. Speshly if losing...

I honestly can't EVER begin to imagine putting a penny in the pot with garbage like this.

Then again, we sit in a fun live game, chatting away, bla de bla, Chandra has £3k in front of him, & temptation comes a-knocking.......

Actually, now the Omaha Whizzos are all here, JB's question got me thinking, about a spot which always gets me in trouble.

He said this was the flop, & for the purposes of this debate, assume we potted it pre & got the usual 2 or 3 callers.

Our hand contains A-A, & does NOT include any diamonds, or wrap cards to the 6-7.

The flop was....

 Ad 6d 7s

So we have top set, with no improvers except the boat, & 2 customers.

How do we go from here in...

6 card?

4 card?


We must pot it (I think....) but so often we get 2 callers, then the Turn is one of the scare cards.

Do we HAVE to keep potting here? 

If we shut down, we get exploited presumably.

We can pair up of course - do we just keep potting & hope we do?

In common with most of us, certainly at my level, I lose more money in Omaha with Aces than I like to admit.

interesting you say this.....


the original cbettor had bare AA and potted then folded to my ckpotjam.

they all talked about the hand after (I said some words but nothing of importance) and the consensus was that I should play my hand as I did and the guy with the uberwrap did good getting his 78910Jxddd in.


??

tikay we need to the stack sizes to be able to comment.

No idea, it is hypothetical, but I get in such a mess in these spots, time after time.

I pot, they call, the scare card (diamond, 3, 4, 9, 10, etc) comes on the turn, now what?.......

And we still have the River to come.

Really, I just need some general help in these spots, let us assume we are all playing reasonably deep.

In 6 card, I don't mind giving up quickly, but in 4 Card, I'm sure I get pushed around in therse spots, especially OOP. Position in Omaha is, to me, SO important.

Guess I really want some general PLO advice. We ought to have a section for PLO. It is such a beautiful game.

Me and Dave rarely bet 'pot' down the streets. Tends to make life easier for your opponents to play correctly against you and perhaps more importantly, it's going to make your bluffs damn expensive when you have to pot because that's how you play your nut hands.

Your hypothetical question is still so hard to answer because there simply is no correct answer about what to do. We need to know, positions, stack sizes etc etc.

If only PLO was that simple eh...

I think a PLO board would be great :)

You could start the ball rolling with a 'common novice mistakes' piece. That should get the PLOers' chins a-waggin'

Wow, your opponents managed to play the flop even more poorly than you! Hugely impressive hand-massacring tekkers from both of them.

So you ended up getting heads up with the best hand AND the best draw. After top set - the nuts - folds the flop!! Run better IMO.

Where is this game?

Did you love it at APAT? :) 37 players busted before I did and not one put there name down for PLO cash :)

told you it was a gd game.

Im not a complete loon.

I just messed around a bit with Propokertools. It only does 5 card PLO, but it gave me some idea of the equities.

1. If you get HU with the AAxxxx hand (which is what should have happened after you raised the flop) then you are about a 34/66 dog.

2. If your hand gets all in threeway then the equities are approx:
AAxxxx 35%
JT987x 34%
Your hand 31%

3. If you get HU with the JT987x (with a worse FD than you), you are around a 60/40 favourite.

I think your equity is actually a bit better than this vs the AAxxx hand because I did not know how to specify that the AAxxx hand does NOT have nut diamonds. But you will still be a big dog to top set, even when your FD is live.

You got massively lucky to a) have a FD that was live, and b) have top set (the nuts) make a ridiculous fold in a bloated pot, leaving you with the only possible match-up that was good for you.

Finally, the guy with what you called an 'uberwrap' has a complete bag of spanners on this flop. It is NOT an 'uberwrap', and even if it was then it is still far too easy for it to be dominated by a FD. Even the true 20-out uberwrap is dominated by a FD.

He's obv called so he can bluff and show the 3

Seems like I ran good to be in that spot then bad to lose what was a day saving pot.

Without divulging any secrets Stu, do you mind explaining the wrap vs fd vs xx kind of equities?
Skype?

George - huh???