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PokerStars Hand #103849121829: Tournament #2013090003, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level III (40/80) - 2013/09/08 20:23:26 WET [2013/09/08 15:23:26 ET]
Table '2013090003 258' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: TraiL89 (11345 in chips)
Seat 2: pads1161 (14985 in chips)
Seat 3: zetoc43 (8782 in chips)
Seat 4: Rus28 (8038 in chips)
Seat 5: kotoula84 (11952 in chips)
Seat 6: horgen1 (9635 in chips)
Seat 7: 99925777 (6212 in chips)
Seat 8: WinterF (7850 in chips)
Seat 9: Refu$e2Lose (10318 in chips)
TraiL89: posts small blind 40
pads1161: posts big blind 80
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [Jc Js]
zetoc43: folds
Rus28: folds
kotoula84: raises 80 to 160
horgen1: folds
99925777: calls 160
WinterF: folds
Refu$e2Lose: folds
TraiL89: calls 120
pads1161: calls 80
*** FLOP *** [td 6d 3d]
TraiL89: checks
pads1161: checks
kotoula84: bets 400
99925777: folds
TraiL89: calls 400
pads1161: folds









Seat 9: Refu$e2Lose (button) folded b

What else can you do? I would v.rarely 3b pre and post just has to be a fold.

preflop discussions begin pls, v interested

We have to fold vs a 4bet, We have a great situation to Top Set Mine. The original raiser is early position and is probably somewhat tight in this comp. We could make it 525 but there must be better hands than jalcs to do this with. Q8s maybe? Such a nice spot to peel I wouldn't want to 3b Axs. Maybe K5s or something.

would rather raise aq, kq, aj than any of those hands u mentioned they all seem like slamdunk calls.

Well played, sir. I don't like squeezing oop this deep with a hand that we really wanna see a flop with, but we're pretty much bluffing if we do squeeze because we don't want to be 4-bet, and kinda have to fold if we are. Flop is just a fold, we've not committed anything to this pot and even though we may have the best hand now, most of the deck is a disaster card for us on the turn where we will be left oop with very little idea of where we stand and without the betting lead, so with very little control over the size of the pot.

Think we should definitely be 3betting this pre almost every time. Top-set mining has little value as we don't get paid off that often and we get to play the hand with more visibility, especially if we knock out one or two opponents. Having flatted, I cannot imagine folding this postflop and would call barring a read that the bettor or caller is very strong every time. I don't see how we have enough information to put either villain on a better hand.

Its all diamonds we have no diamonds. There is so few good cards in the deck for us. Only 3/6/Jh improve our hand. Any 2/7/T/Q/K/A or diamond is bad and we can't know how to continue on. Best to dump now and conserve our chips. I can't give our hand very good equity vs the two others and I don't see how we continue on a huge amount of turns.

We can get paid lots with topset! We overset people and are rarely on the wrong side of set over set. We are oop, fairly deep, vs several opponents and an early position raiser.

@Pads, Your right about the 3betting ranges, AJ/AQ/KQ (offsuit) seem like good hands to make part of our non nutted 3betting range. WWYD with AKs? AKo feels like a 3bet.

My 3b range would be pretty nutted here I must say. Love a good price.

Oh I didn't notice the board was monotone, I guess I'm ok with the fold then.

Set on set just happens so very rarely and while it should in theory be a through ticket to their stack there are often complications along the way, and we can still overset people in a 3bet pot.

Flat pre >>>>>>> rest

Fold flop >>>>>>> rest