blonde poker forum

Last time we started this thread mid season and people changed their opinion a lot

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=46590.0

22 man squad

Goalkeepers (3)


Hart
Foster
Forster

Defenders (7)

Baines
Cole
Johnson
Jones
Smelling
Jagielka
Cahill

Midfielders

Milner
Townsend
Gerrard
Lampard
Carrick
Ashley young
Wilshire
Barkley

Forwards

Rooney
Welbeck
Lambert
Defoe
Walcott




                               Hart


Johnson   Cahill     Jagielka  cole

          Lampard   Carrick gerrard

Townsend                            Welbeck
                          Rooney


Defence looks weak
Midfield looks past it
Trikes don't look near good enough.

Depressing reading. Anybody can pick a better team, I don't think I did a great job.

Need a fit walcott and/or oxlade chamberlain in there also.

You actually forgot Sturridge.

Sturridge is an absolute must! Bin Defoe.
Chamberlain if fit. Bin Young or Milner.
Wouldn't start Hart unless form improves.
If I was a manager I would only take 2 keepers allowing me to bring Crouch. :)

On paper we look shit. Townsend, Chamberlain, Wiltshire and Sturridge are our only hopes imo.

I think there's a rule that says have to pick 3 keepers in your 23 man squad.

Is that to play crouch in goal?

Possibly your best post ever

22 man squad

Goalkeepers (3)


Hart
Forster
A young keeper who is playing first team football at end of this season in premier or championship

Defenders (7)

Baines
Cole
Johnson
Jones
Clyne
Jagielka
Cahill

Midfielders

Milner
Walcott
Gerrard
Lampard
Carrick
Ashley young
Wilshire
Lallana

Forwards

Rooney
Rodriguez
Welbeck
Whichever other striker is in some sort of form at time of announcement

Damn rules.

Would rather have crouch in goal tbh..

I would probs leave Young at home. Just looks clueless these days.

Didn't foster retire from internationals?

Yes

he has un retired if that is a word

Personally i dont think he is good enough anyway to ever be a number 1 so see little point bringing him along

It is actually quite scary when you go through the squads for trying to pick someone a bit leftfield

There is barely anyone

Doesn't look like theres much to go at here.  Would just pick the bro's with the best haircuts and Rooney can fuck off.

roy been reading my posts!

good to see two of the three get a call up

I was actually looking forward to the world cup until I saw this thread. Gl getting out of groups.

Ox has to be in for me also.

Oh shit sturridge. I really hope we don't play him left wing!!


Rodriguez though? Cyme seems a wasted space, jones is cover for dm, rb and cm. Milner covers,rb and smalling can play there.



Yeh pretty scary.

                                 Hart

Johnson        Terry               Jags           Cole


             Barkley       Carrick      Gerrard

Townsend                                     Rooney

                          Sturridge

Subs: Forster Baines Jones Cahill Walcott Defoe Carroll
res:  Foster  Smalling Walker Wilshire Milner Ox Lambert

Henderson?

nope nor cleverly

I still strongly believe nobody over the 31/32 mark should go.

My Squad would be

Goalkeepers - 3

Hart
Forster
Butland

Defenders - 7

Baines
Gibbs
Johnson
Walker
Jones
Smalling
Cahill

Midfielders - 8

Wilshire (Capt)
Lallana
Barkley
Townsend
Chamberlain
Zaha
Sterling
Rodwell

Forwards - 4

Rooney
Sturridge
Welbeck
Walcott
Carroll (if fit and on form instead of Lallana)

From the squad my first 11 is

                                   Hart

Walker            Jones              Cahill               Baines



Walcott          Rodwell           Wilshire         Chamberlain

                                  Rooney

                         Sturridge

Rodwell's whole inclusion would be dependent on him agreeing to go out on loan in January otherwise he's out the squad, Barkley starts in his place.
             
                 

not a chance in the world Gerrard and Lampard won't go, probably as the last tournament for each

Gerrard is captain FFS. Has to be first name down on any 22 Ray!

Hart, Forster, Ruddy

Baines, A Cole, Cahill, Jagielka, P Jones, Smalling, Walker

Gerrard, Lampard, Wilshire, Carrick, Barkley, Townsend, Oxlade-Chamberlain

Rooney, Sturridge, Welbeck, Walcott, Lambert


Missing out

Foster, Butland

Gibbs (unlucky to be 3rd choice in our strongest position)

Johnson ( Jones covers rb)

Milner, Zaha (can't be picked if he doesn't play all season), Young

Defoe, Carroll

No he doesn't, he was Captain to get us there, doesn't mean he has to go.

They've had there chance, they've done nothing in a major tournament, they don't deserve to go to another big tournament so they can have a lovely time enjoying the end of there career.

Anyone tell me the last time they thought England as a whole team played better than average in a game in a major tournament ? It almost certainly wasn't in the last two tournaments we played, in between the one we failed to even qualify for!

Everybody says we can't win in Brazil, I agree, so why take players who won't be able to play in Euro 2018, what's the point in that ?

As an aside, how can Gerrard be on anyone's squad sheet ahead of Rooney ?

What do people think about Terry being brought back?

Could he get a call? would he deserve it? would he accept it?

Not convinced Townsend will def go, or play a major part if he does. Needs to maintain the form he shown so far, and I'm not sure he will.

Not a chance Hodgson or the FA will think like that though Ray

They'll pick a mixture of experience and youth, and at the end of the tournament the over 30s will retire from international football. same as at any World cup.

What tighty said basically. They should be there, just for their experience alone.

Not convinced about any of our centre back options. Weak position for us.

That said I am not sure Terry, the Terry of 2013, improves the situation at all

Would call him if Cahill/Jagielka/Smalling etc were ruled out by injury


Out of left field, why is Dawson not mentioned in these teams? Leader of a very solid Spurs defence

Experience of putting in one dire performance after another and bottling every major tournament they play in and by that I don't just mean the inevitable losing on penalty's.

Hodgson won't do it because if it backfired and we didn't get out the group, the media, who have a ludicrous impact on how the national team is run, would have him out of a job.

The FA won't do it because they care more about money than success so want the "big" names there.

What about looking to the future, actually trying to build towards something ?

Wrong tournament to build youngest to.  No chance of dropping the last of the ''golden generation" especially when they got us to Brazil.  Roy or whoever can drop them leading up to the 2016 Euros, so the younger generation can have a whole qualifying campaign working together.  Kinda ridiculous to think otherwise IMO.

Terry no thank you, doesn't add anything in a 2014 squad.  I don't understand why Dawson doesn't get a look in, he still wouldn't make final squad, but him or Smalling?

I think Tighty has it closet.  With Lambert, Walcott, on edges depending on fitness and form of others.

Why did I always think alverton was scottish?

Rob Green has been in sparkling form.

Deserves another chance.

I live in Scotland.  I work in card rooms, so I may have spammed a tourney or two before Blonde went the way of DTD.  Might be why you thought I was Scottish.

That'll be it! :)

Really worried about hart at the minute as well. Two years ago so solid and a hope that we could keep some clean sheets. Now o my days he is all over the shot. The team looks so poor :(

Build a team around Rooney having a good world cup and then pray. Glad to see Carrick in a lot of teams England dont seem to feel the same way though. Hes probably been in the top 5 players at united for past 3 years now

Neither of Jones & Smalling warrant a place on current form. Dawson better than either, but obviously I hope their club form gets them there soon.

Sturridge a must to go and, again on current form,  definitely ahead of Welbeck.

gerrard and cole excluded because we have no chance on winning and planning for future?

ox better than townsend?

like phil jones inclusion ahead of jagielka too!

i just cant get away with ruddy being international class. Butland for future experience?

interesting you choose walker ahead of johnson too.

not criticising just saying interesting choice, i thought johnosn would be a stone cold lock.

i kinda agree with you, if they didnt do anything in their prime why will they now?

if we go with 4-3-3 and need one front man I genuinely think its close between Rooney and Sturridge, but think most of the midfield 3 has to have Gerrard just because Wilshire and rest are not good enough. Sad state of affairs.

id take it. I really think Jagielka is weak link and Cahill and Terry know eachother from club, with Cole next to them they will know eachother v well and we need to defend good!

Johnson and Terry also know eachother well.

I think our midfield is jsut so weak and he got us there with 2 great performances, I think he will def go, but as a starter, Im not sure.

Dawson is behind them because they are more versatille. Almost definitely the wrong spelling!

Been keeping a close eye on the goalies for England and think it is wide open now for Forster to really push for the number one spot. Think it will be unlikely, as I do think Hart will retain his position for the world cup, but if it is going to be another guy I think it will be Forster.

I think Hart has been bad of late and has deserved to be dropped by his club, Ruddy has been awful from what I have seen of him recently, Butland should never even be mentioned as I have no idea why he has been so overhyped, just never will be a long term premier league goalkeeper imo. I want him to prove me wrong, but I just see so many fundamental mistakes in his game.

Foster has been out for a while now and could push for a spot but he has been pretty shaky, and then there is Rob Green who I think may bottle another chance if given one so wouldn't be a wise choice.

I think Forster could be given the go ahead in future games for England, perhaps throwing him into a world cup finals is hasty considering his international experience, but on goalkeeping skills alone, I think he pushes Hart close, but only close considering Hart is acting very weak at the moment.

Hart on form cannot be touched by any other England Goalkeeper. Forster could maybe run him close but he would need to start playing a higher standard of football, quickly, for comparisons to be fair and to really see if Forster could step up to the plate in goal at the best level. I think he could easily, and it is a shame he isn't in the prem.

With Forster, I thought he was magnificent for Norwich when he played for them, but that was capped at the Championship. Then while at Celtic, people are always going to argue that he isn't playing a high enough standard of football to compare with the other goalkeepers, which I think only goes so far. Of course it would be better for him to be playing in England's top flight, but it doesn't mean he isn't already a great goalkeeper. His exploits in the CL somewhat prove that.

I thought £2m that Celtic paid for him was a complete steal and couldn't quite understand why Newcastle let him go, yes Tim Krul is great, but I would have been keen in doing a rotation with them both. Or if you are going to let him go, how hasn't a prem club not gone in for him. Probably because of his age and his non top flight experience, but he was oozing talent then and he is now.

Anyway, Hart, Forster and Foster I think will make the cut for the three that are going, but with Foster fearing he is third choice, may be a complete prick and retire again, paving the way for Ruddy.

Incredible talent watching the schoolboy game.

Plays like messi. Marcos Edwards.

Will be playing for England at the euros.

Ricky Lambert a lock for his mad pen skillz ?

33 out of 33, wow.

Hart
Forster
Butland

Johnson
Walker
Cahilll
Jones
Smalling
Cole
Baines

Gerrard
Wilshere
Carrick
Barkley
Townsend
Ox
Walcott
Lallana

Rooney
Sturridge
Defoe
Carroll (Lambert if not fit)

Gerrard over Wilshire is a sad state of affairs. Gerrards legs have gone.

Lallna was disappointing last night but his league form has seemed incredible, an absolute waste if he doesn't go if his form continues.

I would not start Sturridge

Two upfront will not work in South America especially if England are drawn in the "humid" group, if they are a small chance of going far reduces to looking at a potential group exit.

England struggle enough as it is to get enough of the ball when they have a numeric midfield advantage let alone when they dont

Hart
Forster
Green

Baines
Cole
Jones
Cahill
Jagielka/Lescott dunno why Jagielka just makes me feel edgy
Johnson
Dawson

Gerrard
Lampard
Milner
Ox
Townsend
Walcott
Wilshere
Lallana

Rooney
Sturridge
Defoe
Carroll

Think Terry coming back would be one of the best things for this team. Also think Jones is an absolute monster and should definitely start, not sure which position though.

Delph at Villa is currently showing what he can do now the ACL injury is distance memory. Solid and dependable I think he has a shout at playing himself into the squad come next year. 

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1468779_532347033500079_1750212914_n.jpg)


! at a couple of his definites

I thought Lallana played well last night, just me ?

How did Phil McNulty come to 8/10 for Hart's performance, he made another huge mistake, just got away with it this time. He did make a couple of good saves but to give him 8/10 would suggest he put in a 10/10 performance without the mistake. Walker was abysmal, a minus number would've been fair.

I agree Tom's thoughts, John Terry is such a better option than what we have now & definitely unsure of Phil Jones' position, hopefully he does start some games. However it's no good wondering what the tem is, because if we are drawn in a terrible group, we need a chuffing miracle.

Pot 1:

Brazil
Spain
Germany
Argentina
Colombia
Belgium
Switzerland
Uruguay

Pot 2:

Holland
Italy
England
Portugal
Greece
Bosnia
Croatia
Russia

Pot 3:

France
Chile
Ecuador
Nigeria
Cameroon
Ivory Coast
Algeria
Ghana

Pot 4:

Japan
Australia
Iran
South Korea
Costa Rica
USA
Mexico
Honduras

Pot 3 looks a lot stronger than usual & still a 2/3 that can give us a good game in pot 4.

Apparent group of death:

Spain, England, Chile, Usa.

Ideal group:

Swiss, England, Algeria, Honduras

Might as well get the ball rolling on bets

I want

Columbia in match bet v England 5/4
Uruguay in match bet v England 11/8
Chile in match bet v England 7/4

Match bets are who goes furthest and same round elimination= a push

England to be knocked out in group stages 3/1

And il lay England to win world cup @28/1 upto 1k in total.

Standard rules, escrow needed if don't know/haven't had bets/u have no vouch- otherwise credit accepted

all seem definites except perhaps walker.

Walker will definitely be going.

He should be looking at Dawson IMO as back up centre half. Jones and Smalling not good enough in that position. Wouldnt even have smalling helping load the bags on the plane in case he fucked that up.  Jones could go as a utility man i suppose.

Also pisses me off how overlooked defoe is. Man scores goals when he gets given the chance and should be thrown on more liberally. Admittedly though he is better in a 442 which we could switch to against certain oppositions in certain situations.

Id go.

Hart
Forster
Butland

Cahill
Jagielka
Dawson
G. Johnson
Walker
Cole
Baines
Jones

Wilshere
Gerrard
Lampard
Townsend
Walcott
Carrick
Lallana
Milner

Rooney
Sturridge
Welbeck
Defoe

First eleven would be in a 4-2-3-1
Hart
Walker
Cole
Cahill
Jagielka
Carrick
Gerrard
Townsend
Rooney
Walcott
Sturridge

Defoe doesnt get a game in a team with a stirker who has scored 1 goal in open play all season. He hasnt been a regular for 5 seasons and will not be close in the next world cup, i wouldnt go close.

Scraping the bottom of the barrel with Defoe. need the Ox or Walcott to come good at Arsenal.

Walcott in my midfielders in squad. Not keen on ox.

Am I just really biased?

I cannot understand how carrick is not a must go? He has been sheer class for the last 2 years at old Trafford!

Carrick is a must!

The Ox was just starting to blossom this season when he got his injury.

Should be back in the New Year and worth keeping an eye on.

Mike Williamson has been best defender in the premiership over last couple months, outside chance?

anybody would take cleverly

fyp

He really just doesn't seem very good over a pretty decent sample.

   Barkley gerrard Wilshire

Walcott   Rooney     Sturridge


Seems like a decent front 6. Perhaps welbeck in the tougher games and Townsend when were chasing things as well as lampard off the bench.

Johnson, cole, Cahill and jagielka is unspectacular but solid.

how excited should we be about rooney this summer?

I'm not an England indeed not really a fan of international football at all.  I just don't get excited by it. 

England will do no better than the quarter finals.  They are not a good team and the conditions they will be playing in will knock the stuffing out of many. 

insightful

Well put another way there are genuinley no world class players in the squad.  Every time a big tournament comes around we get constant news feeds and the likes stirring up passions and we are treated to the same old rhetoric. 

At least fans in Ireland, Wales and Scotland know they are bad and can live with it.  England fluked a world cup ans since then have created their own hype.   I think they will struggle to get out their group in Brazil. 

Losing Walcott is a Massive loss.

Yeah, definitely struggle to win it now.

;D ;tightend;

Ha!

Excellent work, Marky.

I'd go with



                        Hart


Johnson    Cahill   Jagielka     Baines

               Gerrard   Barkley 
Sterling                        Oxlade chamberlain

                   Rooney

                    Sturridge


I expect Henderson, wilshire, carrick and Lampars to be ahead of Barkley though.

I expect hodgson to go for Milner over one of the wingers and be more defensive.

Sturridge, Rooney, Gerard, Cahill, hart, baines, Johnson are locks I think.

agree with your locks, agree with the back 5

think he would have wilshere first choice holding midfielder alongside gerrard if fit

think he'll play 4-2-3-1

the two biggest issues/uncertainties are the wide two in the 3 behind the striker. oxlade looks more of a player from the bench, i think.

I know it will be ridiculed but we'll see Milner picked in group games where a draw against Italy/Uruguay would do, to protect the right back and where sterling/oxlade would leave us too open

Same might apply to Henderson


Something like



hart

johnson cahill jagielka baines

    gerrard wilshere

milner henderson sturridge

         rooney

with sturridge and rooney possibly reversed and rooney central in behind/henderson wide

Hmm that's interesting I always imagined he'd play Rooney behind Sturridge and Sturridge aways as the number 9.

Agree out 4231 just think Rooney will play as the central of the three.

Maybe he will play Henderson next to Gerard wilshire on the left. Sturridge playing on the left would be really bad, he is poor defensively and you need to be solid here, I don't think hodgson will trust him.

As you know I'd love Henderson to play but I just don't see it happening, he definitely deserves it too.

Without going on too much of a diversion 4 years later we will have

Hart
Butland
Jones
Shaw
Oxlade
Barkley
Wilshire
Ward prowse
Tom ince
Zaha
Walcott
Rooney
Sturridge
Sterling
Henderson

All in their prime, could be an exciting team.

Am I the only person who thinks Rooney is terrible? Wouldn't even have him in my starting 11 these days.

who would you play ahead of him?

Good players don't turn bad overnight. He gets very poor service at man united from a really poor midfield. He likes playing with clever players, next to Sturridge they could have a good partnership.

Lambert or Wellbeck if replacing him up top.

Any number of players if replacing him in behind or on wing.

Pleno, it's not overnight though, he's been poor for a while imo. Last few games for England he has looked avg at best.

Big game player, no?

Lambert will get nothing out of world cup defenders in the heat/conditions. Mght not even go in the squad!

wellbeck is sturridge's back up

Rooney has to play, i would do so in behind sturridge linking the play from gerrard up.

he is the only realistic option we have

Lallana could fill that roll perfectly imo.

Although I agree that most people see him as our only option which is why I think we are going to struggle.

In 2013 Rooney played 10 games for England scoring 6 goals.

In 2012 5 games 4 goals.

10 in 15 games he has been pretty consistent over last 2 years.

Even in a struggling man united team he's score 11 in 23 this season, that's pretty decent, remember he doesn't take penaltys for club or country.

Pleno, playing teams like San Marino, Moldova, Bulgaria, Montenegro, ROE and Scotland I would expect him to have more tbh.

But as I said last few games for England, let's take a look. I believe he played in all the matches and was subbed on 70 mins in one.

vs Denmark - no goals no assists
vs Germany - no goals no assists
vs Chile - no goals no assists

Years when there has been a world cup:

2010 -  11 apps - 1 goal
2006 -  8 apps - 1 goal

Don't get me wrong, I would love him to set the world cup on fire but I can't see it and I worry that his name alone will keep people who can actually create and score goals like Lallana, Stirling and Chamberlain out of the team

Rohan Ince will be in the mix.

chambers at Southampton will be England regular rb before 2020

One of the most sensible football posts you've ever made  ;) Agree with the locks, think Wilshere and Jags are both locks too if fit.

Like Tighty I like the back five and it'll almost certainly be how they line-up against Italy. I'd love to see Shaw start and I'd also like to see Cole given a game at right back in one of the friendlies prior to the WC as I don't see why he can't play there. If taking four specialist full backs I'd take Johnson and the three left backs.

Don't think Lampard will go, hope Sturridge plays right up top with Rooney behind (they're clever enough to interchange). I also hope Lallana starts one side of Rooney and if he does Sterling - due to his pace - probably provides the best balance on the other side. Midfield wise I'd probably take - Gerrard, Wilshere, Lallana, Carrick, Henderson, Barkley, Sterling, and The Ox. Leaves us a little light in terms of out and out wide men, but Welbeck can play that role, ditto Sturridge and, at a push, Baines.

I btw think baines is very very overrated. Defensively he is a liability and I think he may be the downfall of the team. With cole if jagielka is too slow he will get back in.

The thing is with our defense we have to just understand we aren't world beaters but Cahill and jagielka can defend well we just can't let them get exposed and need to give as much protection as possible. Playing baines and Johnson together is just abit too gung ho.

I'd rather instruct the defense to play very solid and let the midfield express themselves rather than having a defense minded midfield with Milner etc. such a shame terry can't be turned around :(

Big advantage of Cahill and jagielka is that they are very dangerous on set pieces.

Thing with baine is thT his set pieces are so good and huge asset but gerrars probably won't let him take them anyway.

My Squad now would be

Goalkeepers - 3

Hart
Forster
Foster

Defenders - 8

Baines
Shaw
Johnson
Milner
Jones
Cahill
Jagielka
Smalling

Midfielders - 7

Gerrard (Capt)
Henderson
Wilshire
Lallana
Barkley
Chamberlain/Townsend
Sterling

Forwards - 4

Rooney
Sturridge
Welbeck
Lambert

From the squad my first 11 is

                                   Hart

Milner            Cahill              Jagielka               Baines

                              Gerrard

                Barkley      Henderson         Sterling

                                  Rooney

                         Sturridge

I think we have to play Milner RB, because all our actual RB's aren't very good and can't defend, have watched all of Liverpool's games recently and when Johnson looks weak in that team he just can't play for England, and it's a role Milner is definitely capable of filling.

take flanagan as he can cover rb and lb?

doesnt make too much sense to have jones, smalling and johnson if were gonna start milner.

id probably take carroll over lambert.

Stones would be my backup for Johnson here

Comfy on ball cant be playing a player in a world cup with a handful of club games ever at right back

England should never be in a position where u play a plYer out of positon, as in Milner.

Johnson as weak as he can be, defends better than milner would surely?!

Too late gor flanno youd think, but versatility will be favourable for him.

I want 4 cbs. Milner is cover for so many positions as well.

Think Lambert shades it, dem mad pen skillz

His international experience gets him in for me. He had a big part in City changing the game vs Liverpool last week.

Also he's made 30 appereances for City this season, more than 10 starts and also Pellegrini has started him in a few of the big games which tells a lot.

It's not ideal obv, but there's absolutely no doubt for me Glen Johnson will get ripped apart, I'm 100% certain Milner is a better defender.

I went to modify my post to Shaw/Flanagan but since it seems your lot want to buy Shaw then that's enough for me.

I think it's too early for him but definitely one for the future.

What have Jones and Smalling done this season for you to warrant a place on the 'plane?

Serious question.

Seems insane that you would take a midfielder and try and convert him into a RB/RWB for a world cup. 

I'd take Micah Richards before taking Milner as my RB. 

Also think Johnson will do better for England as a RB if he just concentrates on defending rather than trying to get forward at every opportunity. 

I think Phil Jones is a good player.

Open to suggestions to replace both though, I haven't watched enough Football this season.

Didn't expect many to agree re Milner, but GL with Johnson vs anyone who isn't absolutely woeful.

It's not a position he's alien to either.

Of course he could play it but he hasnt played a full match there for at least 3 seasons

Johnson has been streets ahead of Smalling and Jones this season

I'd say Curtis Davies has been head and shoulders above both this season. Stephen Caulker has matured in a tough Cardiff team and looks every bit the money they paid for him. Spurs would have loved him back this year.

If you want a versatile player (and someone who can deliver a ball if when Gerrard's legs fall off), Tom Huddlestone could barely have done more this season.

Jones and Smalling should have been much better players this season than they have been. Something hasn't quite gone right and I'd be astonished if either of them had excellent world cups.

Just my own view.

I think Phil Jnes is a good player in a bad, and ageing, club defence

is versatility..fourth CB, Second right back, defensive midfielder gets him on the plane


Smalling i wouldn't pick, if i could think of another centre back to take. Caulker maybe.


right back is a problem but I would see him picking the five Liverpool players, and Rooney and working from there


Hart

Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines

Henderson Gerrard

Sterling Rooney Lallana

Sturridge

bench

Forster
Foster

Luke Shaw (would take him over Ashley with an eye on 2018)
Phil Jones
Smalling/Caulker

Wilshere (I would pick Henderson over him, to keep the Liverpool axis)
Barkley
Oxlade C
Milner (will certainly go, will do the dirty work when you need to close out a game or get a group game draw)

Lambert (penalties, better than Carroll anyway. neither go if was rodriguez fit)
Welbeck


this would mean leaving Lampard, but i want an eye on 2018 in the squad players. so barkley etc go

Yeah, we are just so weak in CB pos, pretty much no competition for starting places.

Personally would not take Jones or Smalling

Smalling is what he is a decent player probably be a squad player for United for a few more years.

Really dont get Jones especially in defence very limited positionally, not that quick very rash and not especially brilliant on the ball

Ok he is young and could improve but not for me

And instead you take ?

I would go for Curtis Davies

Silly as it sounds plenty of reports around saying he is an excellent "dressing room influence"

Plus he has been very good this season a big goal threat deserves a chance,

The reason for mentioning the good in the dressing room bit is recently read some interviews with two separate world cup winners and both mentioned the players you take that dont/are unlikely to play are just as important for team harmony e.t.c as those who will start.

Could not have Caulker on my mind cant have someone having a good season for a side who have conceding that many goals

Just can't have that Curtis Davies is good enough. Seen him play live in 30-40 games and he just isn't, even with a good season.

All about opinions!

depth at CB and RB is an enormous problem. might not be come 2018 with stones and any of lees, liam moore, clyne and the like going to be ready then but right now, not a lot.

Smalling is a major weak link in United's team, the amount of times he kills our attacking play by giving the ball away cheaply, seems to have regressed so much this season. Jones is decent, would certainly take him over the likes of Curtis Davies. He has big game experience and is versatile with potential to improve

Fine to take players with potential

But players like Davies should be rewarded for excellent seasons

I never used to rate him at all but he is in his prime for a defender now and in a recent interview has admitted he has changed his style a lot and it shows

Balance in taking barklays/shaws/hendos etc vs cole lamps etc, for experience if not on the pitch in the dressing room?

Think it is fine to take the younger in form player if they actually have a shot at playing

4 years is a massive time in football so is 2 years players that look likely to be certs for 2 years time probably wont be

I don't get what either bring to the table for club or country.  Surely just a case of Man U's quota of players for the england squad.  Surely these days are over now Man U's dominance is over as well.  I read today Wenger is looking at a £13m bid for Smalling in the summer.

Seems the most unlikely Wenger signing ever

If he offered 13 million it would be snapped up

Johnson, Henderson, sterling, Gerrard, sturrige all have to be in our first 11.

They haven't played in European competitions or been in any cup run so will still be fresh.

Hart

Johnson
Terry
Cahill
Baines

Chamberlain
Henderson
Gerrard
Sterling

Rooney
Sturridge

Why all the Love for Hart?

Forster is by far a better keeper.

Would take Barkley in a heart beat. Think he could be a big impact player.

Glen Johnson seems like a liability but not sure who i prefer.

Agree Forster >> Hart tho.

Disagree, I think Hart has been excellent since getting his place back in the City side. Don't think the World Cup is the place to blood a goalie with little to no international experience see: Rob Green. Moreover, whilst our defence is seen as the weakpoint, the expected back five have played together on a number of occasions which is a plus.

Gotta go with Hart for a World Cup, no other keeper even close to having the experience needed.

Some for Johnson. He has been awful this season but there is no one to take his place

No English keeper close to Hart for the place.  A shoo-in.

As for Johnson, he's been bloody awful for a lot of the season - but this was largely down to injuries and other issues.  He came back and played well for a good 10 games at right back, although he's gone off the boil again in the last few matches. 

Yeah, really thought Johnson had turned the corner after being out with the injury but has been absolutely shocking past few games

i know he names provisional 30 man squad next monday but when is the 23 named?

i am trying to name the 23 for a bet i am in. Likely to be a couple of injuries and surprises before it gets named so going for a couple of wildcards to try and scoop as a lot of 23's named will be same i imagine.

I think the easiest 3 to name are the keepers.  Absolutely will be Hart, Foster and Forster IMO.

Can anyone help with the likely breakdown of defenders, midfield and strikers he will pick? Maybe 7, 8, 5? or 8, 8, 4?

Might want to read this before going for wildcards.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27211179

He is naming the 23 next Monday and stating who the 7 backups are, has to be confirmed with Fifa by 2nd June.

thanks. my wildcards are established picks but at bigger prices.

Squad confirmed later today.

I don't have any real massive thoughts on the whole squad, but I would be very disappointed to see Defoe make the squad. He risked his chance of going to the World Cup by going to USA for some big money, rather than stay here for much more of a chance. Personally hoping Andy Carroll gets the last striking spot. Also think Defoe is completely useless.

I'd go for Carroll ahead of Lambert and leave Carrick and Smalling at home taking Stones and Wiltshere/Barkley ahead of them

Could see Lambert and Carroll both going? But it seems pretty close between him taking 4 or 5 strikers, if he takes 5 strikers then it seems according to media that it will be Rooney, Sturridge, Wellbeck, Lambert & Carroll/Defoe. If he goes for 4 though, I would prefer Carroll too

I would take Carroll all day long. Offers something different and far better with the ball at his feet than given credit for

No point in taking both and I don't see it as a big deal if he goes for either. Wouldn't bother with Defoe

According to media reports Carrick has been omitted

And Lambert is in

I would take Carrick, then we could possibly try and play for 0-0 draws

Michael Carrick is arguably the best English passer of the ball in the premier league. One of the England teams biggest failings in big tournaments is a lack of possession leading to situations,too numerous to mention,where we have spent at least half the match camped in our own half. Occasionally a goal kick or Hollywood pass will end up at the feet of the opposition centre backs or going out for a goal kick. We've all seen this happen in every competition since 1996, finishing matches desperately clinging on for a draw as wave after wave of attacks crash down on our penalty area.

I humbly suggest that Messrs Henderson, Jones and even to a certain extent Gerrard are unlikely to help England to address this failing. Lamps has been a Chelsea sub for some time and as has been apparent for God knows how many years isn't an ideal foil for Stevie G whilst Wiltshire has barely played for some time and hasn't really fulfilled his undoubted potential since his first bad injury. He also gets hurt far too often. Barkley and Lallana aren't holding centre midfielders.

I'm not suggesting Carrick would have won us the tournament but surely common sense dictates his style of play is far more suited to the style of play requisite in the temperatures England may encounter and against the quality of opposition where some ball retention is necessary. Sir Alex rated him after all and he's not a bad judge!

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bnb9wUYIIAAcWgR.jpg)

He can pass a ball backwards or sideways. No assists this year tells you everything you need to know about him.

Banal. I'd have thought 5 premier league titles and a champions league winner says rather more. No?

Would far rather go with Henderson/barkley/lallana etc

realistically we aren't winning it, so would like to get these lads experience for 2018

would have been far more pissed off to leave out a good 22 year old for carrick than the other way round

carrick is a good player, but you can't say he is a game changer compared to some of the talents picked, he is simply not


if walcott, rodriguez etc were fit then there were genuine selection hadaches, as it is it basically picked itself

obviously centre half depth is by far the weak link in the squad

Could have got Scott Parker next to Carrick in Brazil and they could have passed the ball all the way back to Heathrow

Not right back?
I understand Johnson is about the only option, but cover seems woeful.
Stones over Smalling for me.

well phil jones covers right back. perhaps better put depth across the defence the biggest issue. an injury or two and a suspension and

you have jones-jagielka-smalling-shaw across the back four

best not to think about it


i think there was a genuine argument for stones and flanagan over jones and smalling but probably a step too far

Amazing that we have no specialist RB in the squad, not that I can think of any alternatives other than Jenks.

stones is in the squad if phil jones shoulder doesn't mend in time, expected recovery 3 weeks


11 of the 23 have less than 10 caps. it might be painful short term but i think that bodes very well for the future

far better than picking carrick, defoe etc

On the positive Gary Cahill is a boss.

That's all I got :)

Dont get me wrong I don't think Carrick is a game changer. Are Lampard or Henderson? Hard to argue Wilshire is currently tbh. What I am saying is possession wins matches. See Kevin Pullein for stats. Not every midfielder has to be a flair player.

When England lost to Italy,Brazil, Portugalx3, Germany and Argentina we spent,at least two thirds of the matches camped in our half giving the ball away every time we had it. Everyone moans about it but nothing changes. Can easily visualize Lallana and/or Barkley coming on after 70 mins with us needing a goal and chasing shadows. Gerrard knackered from all his defensive duties, Rooney fuming etc etc

Makes no difference who the personnel are if Hodgson insists on playing hoof-ball and tries to bypass the the midfield.

whilst i agree with your sentiments completely i have to disagree about gerrard and henderson. one of the main reasons liverpool did so well is that gerrard and henderson worked very very hard and recylced possession again and again. i was previously very skeptical about gerrard as he went for the (for the want of a better world) world cup pass every time. now i think he is a lot more mature and disciplined player who isnt going to be gallaping up the field at any opportunity.

i really, really dont think wilshire should play.

id definitely have

      gerrard   henderson


sterling    rooney    ox

           sturridge

id love to play barkley, but just think he is the natural successor of gerrard and plays a little bit too immature for the big stage right now.

perhaps starting lallana instead of either of the wingers could be a good idea but i just think having a very disciplined anchor 2 and then 3 very creative guys infront of them giving full freedom to cause havoc will unsettle teams like uruguay/italy and hopefully later brazil, argentina and co.

main worry for me is the defence, its just not world class.

I don't mean to be negative about Gerrard. He's a great player. When England beat Poland in the qualifiers thought he and Carrick played well together. Not sure about whether Henderson and Gerrard will be able to recycle the ball so well against top opposition in searing temperatures which makes us keeping the ball for periods if the game even more important. If we were playing Scotland in a bog in Januarythey would be first on the team sheet but we're not. Also fail to see any reason for Lampard to be there. He's a Chelsea reserve who's never produced for England and whose playing style is incompatible with that of the captain.

A definition of stupidity/insanity is doing the same things again and again and expecting a better outcome and sadly that is something every England team and manager has done in major championships in living memory.

possibly the truth has come out

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/05/12/england-name-23-men-to-blame-for-world-cup-failure/

i dont know why but for months everyone has been writing england off as they will be lucky to get out of
there group then today the press and the former players have been making me turn off again

certain presenters and pundits are talking bout england as possible winners
evern alan shearer was quoted as saying semi finalists atleast

give us a break aim for the last 16 if you get there then one round at a time and be thankfull rather than building it up for the next month
then coming down with a bump

As a Celtic fan I am glad big Fraser made the squad, I hope he sends Gary Hooper a postcard. 

That said I will still be cheering every goal big Lurch concedes if he starts.  :-)

Happy Days  :)

Pretty scary that Tevez and Pastore don't even make Argentina's 30 man squad.

There will probs be 20 Spanish players, at least, that don't make there squad that would get into England's.

Any God modeing about...

I do not believe in all this talk about England are in a group that they will be lucky to get out of. They have a pretty tough group, but we are hardly up against two other teams who are likely to be winning the tournament, the group could have been a lot more difficult. Uruguay & Italy are two very good teams, but there isn't much between all 3 of us, I would say there is as much chance of us winning the group as there is of us finishing 3rd.

Both have been very poor for Argentina especially Tevez who has an appalling international record even worse when you take out his goals from olympic games.

Goes back to something i said about having "good" squad players, same with Nasri Argentina and France dont want players who are not guaranteed starters to create any issues in the squad.

Actually really like the French squad got some good young talent in there.

monda knew

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/27383424

so how would you go now?

             hart

johnson cahill jags baines

        henderson gerrard

sterling  lallana     rooney

        sturridge?

welbeck for sterling

is what i think he will pick, especially after the slightly reckless moment tonight

other ten i agree with


sterling, barkley off the bench if you are chasing it

the reckless moment could be a good thing it happened tonight, as it'll serve as a timely reminder you can't tackle like that in a non-european game, so you assume at least, it'll not be repeated.

I also think Sterling better going forward as an attacking player than Welbeck, and is aware of his defensive duties and isn't afraid to come back when required.  He'll give the opposition more to think about.

FYP

Usual head shaking moments with Milner, and v impressed with Master Barkley. Thought that sort of performance almost warranted a starting place, but wouldn't argue in general with picks.

Hope The Ox is ok more than both though.

can i just say that as a goal scorer i am more scared of lambert than anyone else in the england squad and if he gets on the pitch even if its only 30 minutes a game
would have him down as england top scorer but i dont think he will get the game time
he doesnt offer as much as the others apart from his goal per minute ratio

My lack of football knowledge gets better by the year.

I can proudly say that out of this line up there are only 2 names that I recognise. Rooney and Gerrard can't be around for much longer though surely?

So what are England's chances this year? Genuine contenders or are you footy fans in for another year of disappointment?

Tell me if you think i'm cray but (provided ox is ok) i'd go for the same back 5 as pleno and

            Barkley Gerrard
        Sterling Rooney Ox
               Sturridge

Nobody is giving England a chance in this comp, but we might pack a few surprises on the break with that pace.

like it but <33333 henderson

I love hendo and he was superb this season, but watching the last 2 games and thinking in general of how we'll play i think I'm startimg to favour either Ox or Barkley ahead of hendo.

Much more attacking line-up, gives us a better chance going forward, the opposite food for thought too. Hendo can come off the bench if Stevie legs go as he can play that role comfortably.

The difference in his passing (hendo) and general play to what we got last night was chalk and cheese, and much easier on the eye.

Not many people are giving us hope (I'm not one of them!) so with a more "lets go for it" style might surprise a few, but if we did fail, at least we went for it, rather than the fear I think we all have is, we draw 0-0/1-1, lose 1-0, etc and dribble out.

I wouldn't play Barkley as one of the two midfielders in front of the back four, if he plays he has to play as the number 10 or at least somewhere in the attacking three behind a striker. That's where his qualities lie, don't think he's defensively disciplined enough to play in the midfield two and you want him going forward where he can hurt teams.

Milner had a poor game obv, wouldn't give up on him yet though, would play him RB again on Sat.

Ox and Barkley both put in really good performances, Ox more so pushing for a start than Barkley just on that performance.

If our defence wasn't so awful I'd be pretty excited.

And with that team, who is gonna control pirlo in Manaus? At a slow paced heavy sweaty game you really need someone to stick like glue to pirlo or he'll just take the piss.

Ox won't play now anyway

you mustn't lose the first game. not a hope in hell barkley will play next to gerrard, hodgson was critical of him losing possession a lot last night

got to keep the ball away from itlay, slow paced game

got milner written all over it. fans will hate it but as a one off can see him picked. the only feasible alternative is wellbeck, who i would think will be picked there


henderson  gerrard

milner  lallana  rooney

  sturridge

i think milner is a slam dunk to play first game to shackle pirlo.

Will most probably pick Milner to shackle Pirlo

The good thing Milner wont stop doing it after 20 minutes because he fancies do his own thing,

The bad thing Pirlo does not really do being shackled

come on england

Buffon out!!

Pads is no buffoon!!

Just once can we play close to our best in a major tournament plzzzzzz

LETS DO THISSSSSSS

expecting

            hart


johnson cahill jagielka baines

      henderson gerrard

lallana rooney welbeck

        sturridge

think its probably a lock.

big question is subs.

if after 60 minutes we are

1-0, what does he do?
1-1,
0-1?

Lets just for once go for it!! Attack, not worry about them, let them worry about us!

Unleash the cubs!!

20 seconds in to this... pretty sure were going to win the World Cup  :cheers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJqimlFcJsM

Riccccccaaaaa

Looks like Sterling is in for Lallana

Sometimes it is your time...

Uraguay lost, italy keeper out. Sterling on fire. Dodging Spain in QFs.

Win tonight we are in QFs. Simples

Think we did play close to our best so fair enough.

Whilst a bit of luck might've seen us snatch a draw, clearly the best team won.

Demoralisingly see us out of the World Cup by Thurs, confirmed Mr Negative, sigh.

At least we had a go, that was good to see, but we have never been good at keeping the ball have we?

Suarez, the person we love to hate, to put the final nail in the coffin?

We can win these next 2 games, but I've got a feeling we will go out on goal difference or something like that.

(Glass still half full, just)

Performance was okay but it's about results and we lost to a poor Italian side.

Drop Rooney for Ross please and we should best Uruguay.

One of the most positive attacking performances England have put on for a long time. Rooney was his usual "I will never be dropped self" and Johnson always seems to pass to the opposition more than his own team.
Other than that (yes a tad shaky at the back) England are more than capable of winning their next two playing like that.

After this World Cup finishes Johnson and baines should never play again for England. I seriously think baines is the most overrated player in current football. He simply cannot defend, it was abit embarrassing at times. Way more vulnerable than Johnson who is also not nearly good enough.

Lots of positives though, I think we were evidently the superior team and ran v bad in the match. Henderson was really good and showed really good energy in a v mature performance.

I was surprised how much time we allowed Pirlo on the ball in the first half, I would have assumed that would have been out first line of defense but we seemed to allow him the ball.

We look weak when teams pass through us or go down our channels, I think other teams will struggle to do the through balls Italy did between our lines and hopefully Suarez stays more central than coming wide otherwise it could be trouble.

We highs it was 1-0 England for a long time in Marbella. When sterling had the early shot everybody assumed it was in and it went mental at the stars party for a while, pretty comedy.

We saw the future of England last night with Barkley, Henderson, sterling and Sturridge and the future looks extremely bright.

One thing I can't get away with is wilshire. Very bad substitute yesterday from Roy IMO, Henderson was doing more than wilshire is capable of. If Henderson was tired I would probably have put lambert up front and tried to get crosses in, why take him otherwise?

Disagree, Mr Pleno. Henderson anonymous again for me. Really was a disappointment that Lallana didn't get the nod, when up against an ageing midfield, with gaps available that the Liverpool duo couldn't exploit. Then, when he was brought on, we had no outlet ball. I can't believe we didn't bring on Lambert as a longer ball alternative, when everyone was struggling for legs.

Sterling is exciting but has no sense of direction. He can run quickly and beat people but at times ran either into trouble or no closer to goal. Johnson is tremendously fortunate we are light at RB. Gerrard had a lot of work to do and did well. He ran around like a mother figure, trying to do dinner, hang out the washing, pack the kids' gym kit and do her nails at the same time. I hope he hasn't done any damage for Thursday.

Baines was not supported by the centre backs and the midfield pairing, so was left isolated far too often. You can't win games if you don't do the basics right when you don't have the ball.

Rooney won't play worse than that for England again.

The last twenty minutes was embarrassing. As Steve Macmanaman put it, it looked like we had no plan...unless the plan was leave Pirlo alone. If the players are exhausted, you have to have a Plan B and we had nothing. That simply isn't acceptable.

What really annoyed me, above everything else, was the lack of movement in the final third. Whenever Sterling had it on the right, or Baines on the left, the front three stood still and waited. The ball either went to feet and we gave Italy time to deal with the threat or it went into space and we were only even money to make it. Suarez would have scored three against that defence because he finds the space and makes the runs. It's schoolboy football. Sturridge did it in patches but none of them did it enough. The system was fluid so the success of it is reliant on pulling the defenders out of position. We found the channels inside the full backs at times, but didn't pull the centre halves out anything like enough.

We have plenty of potential but that yesterday looked like Liverpool minus Suarez a couple of years ago.

B-  from me.

Rooney is getting a lot flak unfairly. He's being played out of position. Either play him behind Sturridge/instead of Sturridge or have ye bravery to drop him.

I just read this, which is rather depressing.

Only four of 46 sides to lose their opening group game since 1998 have gone on to qualify for the knockout stages (Spain in 2010, Ukraine and Ghana in 2006 and Turkey in 2002).

Rooney plays in the middle, or he shouldnt at all. National level you really shouldnt be playing a player out of position, unless it tactical.  2 touches in the 18yd area all game; an area he excels in.  Does make much sense.

As loses go, it was disappointing, but straight away we can see a different England starting to emerge. Roy went for it, so hard to complain now really.

Still positive we can out score Uraguay

Aside from the defensive error for the second goal, the game was pretty much level across the board. They held on to it well, as expected, but England had the offensive line that looked more likely to conjure up something.

Should have had a penalty as well.

Thought the substitutes were disappointing, other than maybe Barkley. Both Lallana and Wilshire added nothing to the attack, and think they gave the ball away more than anyone else in the time they were on the pitch.

Best game Welbeck had had in an England shirt, but still the weak link. Rooney did well early on, but tired. He did well going forward on the left, and obviously his cross was key for the goal. Sterling and Sturridge were both very good, and all the pressure and hope placed on Sterling before the match has now turned into expectancy.

We play like that against Uruguay and Costa Rica who don't have the defensive setup of Italy, we'll be on six points at the end of the group stages.

As an interesting side note:  91% - England's pass completion tonight was the highest they've ever recorded in a World Cup game (1966-2014).

Paying lallana in the defensive two would be such a bad decision and if we left lost then hodgson would be getting so much stick on this and every other forum. Henderson broke down more plays than anybody and was fast against that "ageing" midfield.

Also think Rooney criticism is too much. He's played much worse than that for England.

I think we did have a plan b as well. Hodgson put wilshire and Barkley on who he thought would be fast/athletic against a old, tiring Italian midfield and both players like to commit players and run at them. I just don't think wilshire is the right player for it.

Subs were strange. Even more so with Lampard and Lambert still sitting on it when we needed a goal

Hate linking to the mail, but:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/worldcup2014/article-2658203/Steven-Gerrard-won-penalty-hed-wearing-yellow-shirt-claims-former-Brazil-star-Elber.html

thought Baines was v poor, but hopelessly exposed. still no natural left sided midfielder after all these years to play ion front of whoever we have at left back. not sure ashley cole would have looked as bad, but thats a bit of a cheap point.

thought wilshere was a very odd sub, unless henderson was carrying a knock, and when he came on he was poor

very encouraged by sturridge, sterling, welbeck

roy has his head in the sand about rooney. play him central, obviously hates playing left in a three, or drop him

because of baines weaknesses i guess roy will play welbeck ahead of him as hes the most "willing"

@tighty, if you dont put wilshire on in that game theres just no real point taking him to the world cup at all (i wouldnt take him fwiw, having carroll as a sub >>>. having wilshire)

we're chasing a game, and one of the three subs is one of the two holding midfielders for like for like?

stick lambert on, give them something to think about.....

No idea why Lambert wasn't brought on.

I have no idea why lallana wasn't on left instead of Rooney , play Rooney through Middle or he doesn't fit

Who starts at 10? Stirling or Rooney?

I thought Baines was more exposed with Welbeck in front of him - the second goal being a case in point. But that aside, thought it was Welbeck's best game for England and he linked up well with Sturridge and Sterling, and he did some excellent running off the ball.

the urugay full backs/back four are either old, suspended or on the evidence of yesterday not very good

stick rooney behind sturridge, and set sterling down one flank and let him get at them.

oxlade should be fit for game 2, and if we need him he'll be ideal as a second half sub down the other flank...start with welbeck

Agree with tighty. Shift Rooney back in. Back him or drop him. Sticking him on the left seems silly.

Lambert should deffo been thrown on. I'd be tempted to go with Barkley for Welbeck but could leave us pretty exposed

has everyone discarded lallana on the basis of coming on for 10 minutes at the end of the game
i think he has a role to play and is more natural on the left than any of the other players mentioned

personally i hope he doesnt play cause if he does play well it will make him more likely to leave the saints

like Barkley, terrific talent but i don't think roy quite trusts him yet to do the dirty stuff when we don't have the ball

if, big if, suarez is fit to play alongside cavani then we need that little bit of hard work that welbeck will offer to cut those supply lines off


think it could be a high scoring open game, don't fancy either back four much, especially as we have no natural protection in front of baines

not discarded him but thought last night's selection was the right three behind sturridge, albeit i wouldn't have rooney on the left

sterling has to play, roy won't drop rooney, welbeck had his best england game and can get back in to help....it won't change for uruguay

Tbf to Roy Lallana really didn't impress in any of the warm up games, think he made the right call there, Sterling had a good game.

Rooney had 2 touches in Italy's Area.  That has to change if we are to qualify. 

TBF to everyone i havent seen any of englands games so cant really comment on how he has played it was just for past few months
and even upto the end of the week people were talking about lallana as a cert to start now he seems last resort behind every man and his guide dog

it cant change they wont be playing italy again for him to have more touches in there box



BOOM BOOM

Agree with all of this. Good analysis.

Rooney will deliver tonight.

I do hope you're right, and that it's this sort of delivery

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-sQNRm9y-dxA/TVbZDUlaJFI/AAAAAAAAAaA/6-bJFFRlf88/s1600/Manchester%2BUnited%2BWayne%2BRooney%2Bscores%2Bhis%2Bside%2Bsecond%2Bgoal%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bgame%2Bwith%2Ban%2Boverhead%2BkickPAPHOTOS.jpg)

Not this sort

(http://melbournepizzadelivery.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Worlds-First-Pizza-Delivery.png)