blonde poker forum

Effective stacks between me and utg are ~28k i think. He covers me by a decent chunk. Level 5. blinds 200/400/50. He is young and appears thinking.

The two relevant pieces of history are that a few hands after moving to the table, neither of us having played a hand in that time, i minned the button at 1/200, he 3b, I 4b small, he 5b, I call. Flop QJddX, he c-bets ~ 1/2pot, I fold, he shows K9o. Hand is relevant for my image as well (psr ~5 or 6 going to the flop, from memory).

Other hand thats relevant to his table image is that he showed down K2s after raising utg either 8 or 9-handed.

For my table image, other the hand above, I've been somewhat snug the last 4 or 5 orbits with the exception of one (probably bad) two-street bluff and one three-street ace-high calldown that worked out.

He opens utg+1 to 900, picks up 1 caller from LP and 1 caller from the sb. I have Q8o in the bb, getting almost 6-1 to complete.

I call. Flop Q86r, I'm 2/4 to speak. Pot is ~4k.

Got interesting turn and river decisions also but I'll leave it at lead vs c/r otf for meow.

check raise flop keep betting on basically any run out that isnt 4 to a straight and 75% on turn and 75% on river unless he blanks off or we improve to a full house and then we can over bet river imo.

All of this

Yeah I don't think flop is particularly interesting, I would consider leading on a twotone board but leading sandwiches my target in the hand, while if he cbets and I c/r he can float a lot wider.

Gets checked round. Turn is Th ie putting out a flush draw. I have the Qh, and the 8h is not on board.

Turn seems to be an obvious lead, sizing is up for debate, I chose to lead 2.5 into 4, original raiser meow makes it ~6.8, folds round back to me.

Fold, call, cib, jam?

If I call or cib, whats my plan for various rivers?

If i call, the pot will be ~17.5 with ~21k back. If i cib and he calls the pot will be 26k with 16.5k back.

What is obvious to me about the turn is that the lead is awful vs described villain. Leading turn in a 4 way pot on a massively wet board? I mean we have a really good bluff catcher here, happy to let him get the barrels out

Are you kidding pinchop? It's 4 way otf and the pf opener has checked (as I expect him to a lot on Qxx especially a slightly co-ordinated Qxx with the BB in the mix too), so he's either pot controlling a one pair hand or he's given up. It can very easily check through again and there aren't many good rivers for us, but plenty of hands with equity that might call one. Checking is terrible. MUST lead.

go between 2.8k and 3.5k, fold if raised.

this, turn lead simplyz cannot be awful or even close to it.

I just think bet folding (which we're going to do I would approximate >40%) is a big waste of a chunk of our stack. Oppo does not seem the type to simply call turn with a flush draw + gutter type hands that we'd be looking to get value from. I'd prefer to allow villain the opportunity to bet this type of hand, because we are more than likely to instigate another barrel from him when we check a brick river. If we bet and are called then we are only likely to see more chips from him on the river if he gets there.

This early in a 4day live comp I'm just looking to win reasonable sized pots with minimal risk to my stack.

I lol'ed so hard at this.


oh meowwww

Given his line I think he's going to show you TT here a bunch. I know it sounds absurd but unless he's really stupid he's going to peel with a flush draw/KJ type hand. Would be better for him to go multi way if he has a nut draw of some type, he doesn't have to worry about the 2 behind raising either.

He's put you in such a coffin here but I just think he always has it. The only other thing is that he could have 67 78 89 suited hearts which wouldn't be so great to get over-peeled behind and see a river card because he will be drawing to a second best hand too often so he could apply pressure with these hands and just see what happens.

Tell me he had tens.

i'm not folding cus i dont like this guy now when we're folding to flop bet when 5b pre and getting shown K9o.

tell this guy he's your nemesis, then call.

I felt like his range was hugely populated by draws and didnt expect anyone to flat behind, and thought i would perceive his raise as extremely strong because hes repping such a narrow range.

Call the above optimistic, but I went with my read. I cibbed with the plan to check every river (or maybe lead tiny on Q/8/65432x).

He calls very quickly. River Ao, I check, he jams quickly, we?

Turn is an absolute must lead. Checking is a huge leak imo. What to do now is pretty interesting not really sure. Don't think we can fold just yet and not a raise fan so guess call and re-evaluate. Usually the line I take when I haven't got a clue what to do!

It's so difficult though because we don't really know what he has. If I knew him and thought he was pretty good, I'd be tempted to fold the turn. If he was a bit spazzy and took odd/aggro lines a bit too much then I'd call and fold all bad rivers.

Patrick, what are your thoughts after it gets checked around on the flop and we get raised after leading the turn?

I'm interested to see how this changes what we do...

Also not knowing what to do vs a raise is not an argument that suggests we should check the turn. Obviously we know that we end up getting raised here, but I think getting raised is reasonably unlikely, and we lose so much value when people check back with hands they would have called with

I really hate cib the turn in this spot, especially if we are checking most rivers to him from oop, considering he has just went ballistic very recently trying to bluff us we're just giving him an incredible spot to pot the river as a bluff again, which might not be a bad thing generally but Im not sure how good our hand actually is on this board to snap a river shove, I guess you could just check/snap him off on any non-heart/A/9/T/maybe 6 river and hope he doesnt have TT but I think just calling his turn raise gives you way more options on the river

Edit- as played I think river is a fold

You do know him I'd imagine. I was going to say who it was but it seems kinda unfair on the player. I think your image may have been more active than you think Wazz. I had 2 mates on the table and they both thought you were quite splashy/active.

Sick 2 mates brag

Picken on thinking live players are splashy shocker ;)

Wazz is an online omaha player afaik. And I'm just relaying other peoples views!

Hand hasnt generated as much discussion as I expected, thought it was a very interesting spot, guess I'll give results: I called river and villain had KJo.

given his tendencies he might be a player where ripping turn is best, ie he is raising a bunch of turned combodraws/ we are oop/oppo playes v well on rivers/we guess on 1/2 the deck and dont know his bluffing frequencies/pot is decent.

Could you possibly lay out your thoughts to initiate the discussion you we're expecting this hand to generate?

Apologies if my unorthodox (or just plain bad, you decide) thought's killed your thread :)

Sorry Wazz, had read your exit report, so thought it better not to contribute.  River pretty horrid.  UL.

What are stacks OTT. Is a jam too big? CIB let's him peel his draws and jam his TT, tough for him to make a mistake there really unless he goes allin which would be very silly of him vs pretty much uncapped range

I specifically thought that, while he would certainly be valueraising TT and J9 ott, the board is dry enough and he has a bdfd 33% of the time such that I could discount some of his J9 - perhaps 50% of them, at a guess, but possibly much lower. Anyway, with two guys behind him, I didn't think he would want to flat that many draws with two guys to act behind when he could rep such a strong hand, and I sorta pegged him as the optimistic type - 'he knows that I know that I'm repping a narrow range so this should be credible' sorta thing.

Thus I thought that his turn range was largely populated by draws, some of them quite weak, including a bunch of Ax hearts. Only A9/AJ/AK/KJhh c-bet the flop (probably?) and possibly bottom or middle pair with a fd (can't remember which was the heart). A jam only gets calls from him when he does in fact have TT/9J or other random hands that beat me (thought he wouldn't slowplay QT/88/66 almost ever), and big combo draws like A9/AJ/AK/KJhh, but a call gives him a free shot to hit all those hands, whereas a cib allows me to get value, even if he isn't making a mistake by calling.

Given my image was active I thought there was even a chance he could think I was at it myself and have him punt it in there and then. I also thought that, because his range was mostly flush draws, I would just close my eyes and check-call any bet on a non-heart river and possibly some hearts too if it felt right. Just flatting the turn doesn't allow me to get as much value from his bluffs.

Fold pre. Reverse implied odd's and Hero's hand MEHquity. Let's not get into an ego war oop in multiway pots and save some brainpower for when its needed. Just my opinion im a nit though.

Just spotted this which reinforces my call to fold pre. Maybe wazz was bored.