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I was in the bank this morning, queuing behind a couple and their two young daughters to use the self service banking machine.

I think the parents were withdrawing money to buy their younger daughter (about 10 years old) a present because she was visibly excited.

As the father was using the machine the daughter started to do a little dance.

It was very cute, and I smiled at her.

The mother looked at me horrified "What are you looking at my daughter for?"

"She's right in of me, I can hardly not look at her"

"Why are you smiling? Are you a paedophile?"

Is this really the society we want, where a man can not even smile at a young girl with being accused of being a paedo?

Jake has zero male teachers at his school.

At the other two schools we considered sending him I think there was one male teacher between them.

That's roughly 1 from 25.

I can only assume men are scared of learning to teach young children because they are worried about how society would perceive a man who chose to do this job.

I think it is incredibly sad.

Media to blame.  Certain newspapers especially but whenever there are some tragic incidents then there is 24 hour rolling news that brainwashes people.

Made to think that on every street corner there's men waiting to harm and kidnap.

It is the culture we live in sadly.  One of pure irrational fear.

Saw something on FB recently about this and there was the old 'if you had kids, you'd understand' nonsense too just because I didn't agree that convicted paedophiles should be hung.

If nothing else the daughters are going to grow up terrified that every stranger is out to harm them.

And then they have kids and it become self perpetuating.

That's a real shame, Camel.

My only point would be you don't know whether anything has happened in their lives previously that may have made the family overly cautious. A friend of mine is similarly twitchy, with one of his daughters having been the victim of an assault a few years ago.

We never know what makes someone act in an irrational way.

It must have been horrible for you to have something like that said to you.

I didn't know what to say really.

That scenario did actually go through my mind - that they had been afflicted by something to make her so suspicious.

I was confused, hurt, upset and angry all at once.

So I did the very British thing and said and did nothing.

Sorry to hear about this Keith, this stuff totally winds me up, and not just this but the broader PC Bullshit that is fed out there. This is absolutely part of it. I mean this is not even funny it's so ridiculous.

This is why I always question liberal attitudes (yeah I know u don't like it) and I have no problem with some of it, but when you hear me go on about 'PC bullshit' this sort of stuff is absolutely the sort of irrelevant stuff that causes unnecessary problems.

Serious question.

If you were in my spot, what would you do?

Sorry to hear that Keith, this really sucks. The problem is you've done nothing wrong but the more you say, the more you defend yourself, the guiltier you sound.

There's nothing you can do or say that is going to change this persons mind, so the less you say the better.

So infuriating, but like you say, what can you do?

Sounds like you handled the situation better than most would have, and although I'm quite a mellow person now, I'm not so sure that I could have just said nothing.

I know exactly what you mean. When I pick my daughter up from nursery little kids will run up to me and shout dad and put their hands out for me to pick them up. I try not to look at any of the other kids, I certainly don't touch them or pick them up for fear of what might be said. There are about 14 workers there and none are men. Similarly when I am out with my little un women will stop us say awww how cute and tickle her etc yet if a man under 50 was to do that it would just feel wrong.

Defo think the media is to blame.

I would have simply said I "I'm sorry when your daughter looks at me would you rather I scowl and say don't fucking look at strangers.." Then tell her to stfu and get a grip.

You think what this woman said has anything to do with Political Correctness?  She is doing something that is near the  complete opposite.  You and this woman are just engaging in unjustified ranting.

I don't see why people are scared to look at other kids at nursery too.  Just speak to the other parents and kids, I don't have any issues and am often the only man in the room in a few places I take my daughters.  To be fair to Milli, I have become much more comfortable than I was when my first daughter was born and I first started out in these situations.  So I really don't think this is the culture we live in and this was anything other than a woman who is in the minority.

I don't think I have ever had anything close, but would hope I would just explain smile and explain the situation to her rationally.  If she carried on, if just walk away.   Most people would just conclude she is the nutter.

FWIW My eldest daughter had a male teacher last year and he was brilliant, and I don't know of any other parent who didn't think so. 

Im a chair of govs at our local school, and ive had this sort of thing happen in school.

Would be nice to have thoughts, as i lost the arguement.

We have male caretaker, who performed playground duties on a rota with the other teachers.  Walking around the playground, he often had year 5 or 6 kids (mostly girls, but the odd lad) walk with him holding hands. Ended up being an issue, as some parents but in an official complaint to him holding hands in the playground!

The head order that he stop, or be taken off the playground as a result, he said he'd stop, but asked was he doing anything wrong. I argued too why, whats the harm....

He now doesnt do playgrounds duties at all, because he feels bery concious of his actions.

Cavaets- we are in county where ian huntley was caught (caretaker too) this incident of ours was around 3-4 years after

We have 1 male teacher in school, weve had 3 male teachers in total in the 7 years ive know the school

I am presuming she was a chav or educationally challenged. Should have made a scene and told her how offended you were that she would think that and ask her to apologise.

I find it incredibly noble that you managed to bite your tongue.

I honestly don't know, It's one of those wtf scenarios that you just don't know how you will react until it happens. I think my most likely reaction is probably down the 'I hope your joking' route with an incredulous look on my face, but who knows for sure  :dontask:

in any event it's just a totally ridiculous reaction on her part, and not entirely disimilar from people who are quick to brand people racist for next to nothing.

Pretty horrible spot.  Banks are a nightmare for having CCTV all over the place.

I'm guessing that the accusation came from someone looking a little like this

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/01/13/article-1243029-07D9FE65000005DC-562_235x247.jpg)

Easily ignored and dismissed as the rantings of someone with little class regardless of their appearance.

The sad truth is that it is really hard to be a male teacher or indeed a male anything who is involved in working with children in any way.

Would just tell her 'I hope your daughters don't end up like you'.

I think it is just sad.  It seems these days in England we are just so suspicious and unfriendly towards people we don't know whereas surely the example we should be setting to our children is to be open and friendly to everyone.  Of course something untoward can happen but to set out with the mindset that it is likely to just closes so many doors in life.  Still not sure whole thread isn't a thin "got money in bank" brag though.......

After sleeping on it, I decided something like this would have been my best response. Only 24 hours too late!

Whatever, I feel sorry for the children with a parent like this.

Ha, you've obviously been to Darlington David!

How shocking and very sad Keith, cant blame you for being stunned into silence.

Thinking about it I hope I would have laughed and said something like" don't be so ridiculous, do think every man that smiles at a happy fun loving child is a paedophile??"

Your local town?..same bank as you?...do you think you might come across them again!?

Horrible situation, I've never had a reaction like that but I've still stopped smiling a,t or waving back at, kids for the most part.

If I'm honest, my reaction would depend on the size of the father

The stupid thing is, almost all sexual assaults on children come from parents or close family. Will it get to the point where you can't show affection with your children in public?

Not a pleasant situation for you Keith, and I suppose it's an extreme case of paranoia from the parent (who may have been a victim of abuse in the past, as suggested).  Of course, this in no way justifies her comment.

It's similar to the "Oi, are you looking at my missus?" comment from a neanderthal in a bar, when you can either say no and then he comes back with the "you saying my missus is ugly?" or the yes answer that could be followed by violence.  It's them projecting their fears and insecurities onto others. 

I don't think there are many things you can be falsely accused of that are on the same level as being called a paedophile.  There's no evidence that suggests that sexual abuse of children is a bigger danger today than it was in the past. It's just that the mass communication we have now means we all hear about it when it happens (well, when it's reported).  As Dan said, most sexual assaults on children are carried out by family members or close friends of the family.  That's true now as it's always been.  Yet the idea of a stranger preying on children is what gets the headlines and news stories, and creates the fear that means even normally rational people act irrationally.

I think we had a discussion on this topic previously, but if I saw a young boy alone in a shopping centre looking distressed and lost, my first reaction would be to find a women who could approach the boy and take him to the centre management or the police.  Not sure I'd be comfortable doing that myself, which is a pretty sad state of affairs really.

I can't understand it Keith - you look nothing like Woody Allen.

You are all mad.  People in the thread are complaining how the press is causing an issue and then overreacting to situations because of what the Mail said.

 Go ask the kid if he is ok. If he isn't, try and find the parents/somebody in authority or look after him until the parents show up etc.  All parents are going to lose sight of their kids sometimes.  99% of parents are just going to be grateful somebody found their kid.  And for the other 1% there is always the CCTV.  

absolutely this

we should do what is appropriate for the child and ensure their safety and be safe in the knowledge that we have done nothing wrong

Oh, I'd make sure the kid is OK.  But I'd probably get a woman to stay with him whilst I went to find someone in 'authority' rather than the other way round.

At least she didn't call you fabrice!

Horrible situation. Really don't know what I'd do/say.

Could ask her opinion on 4bet bluffing ranges? I find this tends to win the "I can stun you into silence" battle nearly every time.

Very much a sad reflection of society. I don't have kids but find in situations where the natural relation is a smile or suchlike is what you would have done 30 years ago just isn't worth it these days, as you can see how people's minds work.

If I am with the wife, different matter, but on my own, don't even bother.

Would have shaken head incredulously and maybe asked if she wanted to repeat that down the local police station.

 Her ignorance is frightening. I have a 1 year old daughter and have had women, men old and young smile at her in cafes banks, parks and personally it makes my day. What's the harm at smiling at a child?

People with this level of stupidity can't be reasoned with IMO. If you fuel the fire with this pond life they are at an advantage as they are the one with the child.

Ridiculous and totally embarrassing that people can be so dumb.

I had a sort of related situation today, which has been bothering me ever since, so I guess I'll stick it up here and see what people think.

As I was walking through town towards uni today, I noticed four girls coming out of what I assumed was a youth centre. The first was quite small, I figured around 14/15 but could have been a little younger. She was clearly on the verge of tears, not quite running but moving very quickly. The second was a much larger girl, 15/16, looking very aggressive and doing that stomping around sorta walk that people do when they've lost their temper a bit. She was moving after the first girl, and holding a snooker cue. The third was apparently around a similar age, and followed the first two out through the door but stopped and ended up crying against a wall. The fourth was much older, presumably the "responsible adult" who looked to be on the younger side of the 20-25 age range. She was calling after one of the first two girls, presumably the one with the snooker cue, but stopped when she reached the pavement, called out a few more times, and gave up, instead turning to the third girl and comforting her.

Now, the situation was fairly clear. The first two girls had had an argument, they may have been playing snooker/pool (hopefully, else the situation becomes much more sinister), and the third was a friend to the first two who had failed to defuse the situation. The woman was seemingly one of those people who was supposed to be in control, but clearly wasn't and judging by her reaction to the situation probably never was/would be, and was completely at a loss as to how to resolve the problem.

The dilemma for me was this: I was concerned for the well being of the first girl, since she quite clearly would not be able to defend herself against the second if things got physical. I was also a little concerned at the nature of the argument which had caused the initial fall out, and at the fact that noone had any control over the situation and it was being left to escalate, all of which gave me cause for concern which, a few years ago, would have been enough for me to step in, feeling as if the safety of the first girl was my responsibility as a witness in a position to step in. However, I was genuinely concerned for my own safety. What if the worst scenario occurred, and one of the group became violent? If for any reason I had to make contact with one of the group, I was in a potentially very awkward and legally problematic situation. Basically, I felt that regardless of outcome I was putting myself in a very vulnerable spot, but was juggling this with the potentially dangerous situation that I was watching unfold.

In the end, I walked away, but have spent the rest of the day being pretty bothered not only by the fact that I chose not to help and I now have no idea of the outcome, but by how worried I felt for my own safety if I did. I'm not entirely sure which is worse.

I used to be involved in self defence/self protection, and amongst my training partners were police officers and doormen. We used to discuss this sort of scenario a lot. My opinion is this (and it's just an opinion)

If you decide you do want to get personally involved in a situation like this, the only thing you can do is speak to the 4th person, the adult, and ask if there's anything you can do, or anyone you can call for them.

You're right to avoid direct involvement in the conflict between the two girls. You're setting yourself up for a world of trouble if it the girls become physical with each other, or worse still (from a potentially legal perspective) with you.

It might be more sensible to observe from a distance and if you think it's likely to escalate further, call the police to intervene.

If girl 1 is in genuine fear for her physical safety from girl 2, she is ALREADY the victim of common assault. It doesn't have to go physical before it becomes a police matter.

In the worst case scenario that it goes physical and you feel you have to step between, I would personally suggest doing so by shielding girl 1 from attack with your back to girl 2, rather than confronting girl 2 face to face. That way you are minimising the risk of her or bystanders interpreting it as you being inappropriately physical or violent with a teenage girl. Of course you are risking personal injury by turning your back on a pool cue wielding assailant, teenage girl or not, but if you're going to be a hero, it's going to involve getting hurt.

I know it's slightly sexist, but if it's exactly the same situation, but with boys, it plays out slightly differently at the point you decide to intervene personally. Don't turn your back on ANYONE, even the person you are supposed to be protecting. It's not uncommon for person 1 to come to the defense of person 2, even though you were trying to protect them from that person. It's possible that before their argument, they were good friends, and their falling out fades into the background and their instinct is to take sides with their friend.

I've actually seen and heard similar situations being role played by groups of muggers. Sort of hustling strangers into being a good samaritan to defend a smaller weaker looking person from attack, only for the whole group, including the victim to turn on the would-be hero.

Be careful, it's a jungle out there :)

It's for that latter reason I would advise personal intervention should be a last resort. Best to call the authorities. Doesn't mean you have to turn a blind eye. you can still assist without jumping in personally. The bigger and tougher you are, the more likely you are to face repercussions for getting involved yourself.

Just to reiterate, all IMO of course

What a good well thought through post that is ^^^^^^

I don't know if it's a cultural thing. but I always seem to find myself talking to random kids, especially the pre-school ones that are out with their mum or dad during the day. I usually stoop down to their level and have a bit of banter with them, and more often than not, mum or dad will join in, especially if you compliment them on their children. I'm sure that there is the occasional neurotic crackpot parent out there, but why let them spoil it for everyone else? 

I don't do daft things like offering sweets or picking them up, but I think interacting with strangers in the presence of their parents is great for young kids.

If I saw a child lone in a shopping centre or something I would intervene without even thinking about it. I've been glad when others have done the same for my children. If there was a problem afterwards them so be it. It's better than a toddler getting run over.

Thanks :)

Just a year after posting how sad it was there were no male teachers at Jake's school, one of the governors of the school has been charged with various child sex offences.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/11821127.Man_from_Richmond_charged_with_child_sex_offences/?ref=mr

Utterly shocked.

So ridiculous Keith (OP)

A couple of years ago I was playing with my son, he was 2 or 3 at the time, in the soft play area at Meadowhall. Another little girl came over and started talking to me so obviously I talked back. A few minutes later an employee told me to leave the equipment because I was making the parents feel uncomfortable. I mean GTFO.

But I just got off and bit my tongue as well but was raging/sad inside.

James have you ever been in a play area and someone has come up to you and asked you where your parents were?

A+

British society is officially dead, government wp for installing fear into the population.

I honestly think people should start standing up to this sort of stuff. People need putting in their places with such ridiculous paranoia. I would have deffo told them to GTFO and if people weren't happy with me playing with my son there then they should take their kids out and go somewhere else.

Why are we blaming the Government here?   Why does one idiot reflect the whole of society?

Its a prime example of the PC tosser society.

PC people go around accusing strangers of been paedophiles? 

Think Ladbrokes should offer Woodsey bingo on budget day next year,
pc 4/6,
tosser 5/1,
immigration evens,
I blame the government 3/1
health and safety gone mad 10/1

Its all part of the wider PC culture of giving people grief for the most minor infringements of whatever they are paranoid about or issues they are sensitive about, I don't expect you to agree but hey ho....

Some huge prices there doobs!  Super yankee to max stakes for me!

Anyone think they could price this up lol
Odds of this scenario of accusation in the bank happening in 1955? 1975? 1995? 2015?

Why are we blaming the government? Hah!? Who else is to blame for the spoon fed fear on drip to the general public dished out through all media outlets. Fortunately here on this forum we are full of people with strong minds and good knowledge and don't get sapped into it all! I'm very much in tune with the kind of people of lower classes that are not so privileged to have been able to expand their own learning from a young age, these people are the masses not the one idiot, these people are susceptible to manipulation. These are the people that jump to paranoid assumptions.

Roflz. Cheeky bastard :P

I thought of this thread the other day when the queen was visiting Sheffield.

There stood two little girls both probably around 3-4 years old with their Mother and their Nan I think. Neither little girl could see what was going on and neither Mother or Gran was tall either, in fact they was both pretty small. So I was a little in front, I really didn't want the little girls to miss out on the seeing the queen, but I was in two minds to even bother asking if they wanted me to pick their child up so they could see. Decided on asking in the end, was completely worried they might get the wrong impression, sad in today's world

Wouldn't have had you down as someone who stood out to get a glimpse of Her Majesty Aaron.

Those two little girls will be glad you are though.

EVERYONE loves Her Maj.

Some deny it, it's uncool, but we adore her.

Bet if Aaron had offered them some sweets instead they would have been happier.