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Poker Forums => Poker Hand Analysis => Topic started by: Junior Senior on February 02, 2014, 07:47:06 PM



Title: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 02, 2014, 07:47:06 PM
This is fresh from this afternoon. 38 or 39 left at the time hand started. 36 paid. Min cash is £1k.

I have 70k at 3k-6k a1k. Average is 240k. Blinds will go to 4k-8k in ~20 mins. We are 7 handed.

I have for the most part of the last 7 levels been posting blinds and antes, have doubled up once when short, got the odd reshove through and been miserably card dead so folding a lot. I've given up quite a few opportunities to shove when the action has been unopened so clearly not shoving any 2 when given the chance. Hands seen by the table so far have consisted entirely of 1 hand where i shoved 12 bbs with A10 got looked up by 99 and doubled. I have however stepped up my shove and reshove frequency in the last 2 levels which has been noted by the better players on the table but certainly not shoving every chance.

Action folds to me which it has done roughly every other round. I am in cut off with  8c 6c. I have a new player to the table in the bb with about 220k. The button is a lady who looked me up with 99 but has been tight and the sb has also been tight. Both playing about 150-210k

Wwyd?


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Sulphur man on February 02, 2014, 08:05:40 PM
First impressions is a snap fold. 11bbs is not the end of the world. Surely a better spot in the next orbit or so to get AJ in v AK HAHA.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Doobs on February 02, 2014, 08:07:17 PM
It is right on the border of a good cEV shove.  It would be an ICM disaster for you if you are called.  Just going to let it go.  You have 220k, BB has 70k, I'd answer differently.  


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Sulphur man on February 02, 2014, 08:08:49 PM
Pretty sure a backer would cry if you did this. Don't know if its on your roll or not.
Would plug it through SNGwiz but its late. (I miss a tonne of jams) ICM has got to get us
to tighten up though surely even if it is 7 handed.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Sulphur man on February 02, 2014, 08:10:29 PM
It is right on the border of a good cEV shove.  It would be an ICM disaster for you if you are called.  Just going to let it go.  You have 220k, BB has 70k, I'd answer differently.  
You commented saying pretty much the same thing as I posted that. Bit tired to read before posting mine.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 02, 2014, 08:11:57 PM
No backer, just me. Should not make a difference but i won a sat online which cost me ~65 pounds in total to get


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 02, 2014, 08:15:27 PM
I wasn't sure i would get to the cash by just folding. Pretty sure i was at best 36/39 in stacks in the comp. would it be +ev to just fold and fold here? I still of course had designs on winning or making a run at the ft so didnt want to grind to dust


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Sulphur man on February 02, 2014, 08:17:59 PM
No backer, just me. Should not make a difference but i won a sat online which cost me ~65 pounds in total to get
Gratz on winning the sat. Its a nice profit then just to min.
Without taking ICM into consideration with a CSI of say 7 and ante's we would be looking at shoving 25%
of hands from the cutoff unopened. Would guess the bubble factor would bring that % down pretty sharp.
Did you Jam it Ryan Moon style?.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 02, 2014, 08:21:02 PM
CSI?
Jammed it in a non dramatic style matter of factly declaring i am all in


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Sulphur man on February 02, 2014, 08:22:30 PM
I wasn't sure i would get to the cash by just folding. Pretty sure i was at best 36/39 in stacks in the comp. would it be +ev to just fold and fold here? I still of course had designs on winning or making a run at the ft so didn't want to grind to dust
If the £1000 is not the end of the world then going for the win is a much better strategy although I'm passing this particular hand.
Certainly not hanging about would want to get a few jams through in the next twenty Min's and hopefully double up in the process. You are by no means dead here.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 02, 2014, 08:26:06 PM
CSI.?


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Sulphur man on February 02, 2014, 08:27:29 PM
CSI?
Jammed it in a non dramatic style matter of factly declaring i am all in
Chip status index most people know the term M that's used by Harrington basically the orbits of the table you can make with your chipstack.
You are a hero for getting it all in love the style. Heart!


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 02, 2014, 08:34:16 PM
Oh ok...M


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 03, 2014, 06:42:57 PM
so its a bad shove then?
what if i had say A-J or 77, should i be folding these for ICM reasons? i could have shoved KK and still lost as she woke up with AA... results oriented i know but what is the line here?


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: titaniumbean on February 03, 2014, 06:50:55 PM
so its a bad shove then?
what if i had say A-J or 77, should i be folding these for ICM reasons? i could have shoved KK and still lost as she woke up with AA... results oriented i know but what is the line here?



the equity you have with those stronger hands vs the calling ranges of the players behind you is the deciding factor for shoving those.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: pleno1 on February 03, 2014, 10:57:29 PM
id raise fold. we have tight unknowns, its the bubble and theres a woman behind. It should be profitable and our stack of 9 or 11 bbs plays pretty much the same, we basically have to fold into the money anyway.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 03, 2014, 11:15:27 PM
id raise fold. we have tight unknowns, its the bubble and theres a woman behind. It should be profitable and our stack of 9 or 11 bbs plays pretty much the same, we basically have to fold into the money anyway.

really?

i should have just folded on reflection. i hadnt really considered even min cashing or grinding to a min cash at all so hadnt paid attention to my bubble strategy. it moved quite quick too from 43 to 38 players - should have thought about it more.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Doobs on February 04, 2014, 12:15:09 AM
id raise fold. we have tight unknowns, its the bubble and theres a woman behind. It should be profitable and our stack of 9 or 11 bbs plays pretty much the same, we basically have to fold into the money anyway.

really?

i should have just folded on reflection. i hadnt really considered even min cashing or grinding to a min cash at all so hadnt paid attention to my bubble strategy. it moved quite quick too from 43 to 38 players - should have thought about it more.

It is a Nash shove, so don't think it is a big error even if ICM screws you up a bit.  I wouldn't beat myself up about it.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 04, 2014, 01:31:15 AM
id raise fold. we have tight unknowns, its the bubble and theres a woman behind. It should be profitable and our stack of 9 or 11 bbs plays pretty much the same, we basically have to fold into the money anyway.

really?

i should have just folded on reflection. i hadnt really considered even min cashing or grinding to a min cash at all so hadnt paid attention to my bubble strategy. it moved quite quick too from 43 to 38 players - should have thought about it more.

It is a Nash shove, so don't think it is a big error even if ICM screws you up a bit.  I wouldn't beat myself up about it.

no but like to be over critical if possible.
thanks for all your views. i;ll fold next time :-)


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Oxford_HRV on February 04, 2014, 02:07:02 AM
cant really give an opinion here. need solid live reads to be shoving this weak, sometimes you can catch a real nice spot to jam atc, you might need a bit of dutch courage too! (:


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: lolwutwasthat on February 04, 2014, 02:21:24 AM
Fold, someone is gonna go nuts before you bust.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: rfgqqabc on February 04, 2014, 03:09:21 AM
id raise fold. we have tight unknowns, its the bubble and theres a woman behind. It should be profitable and our stack of 9 or 11 bbs plays pretty much the same, we basically have to fold into the money anyway.

Tank minraise/tank fold. Like a boss.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: millidonk on February 04, 2014, 06:24:23 AM
I raise folded off 12bbs in this. wasn't even bothered. You are highly unlikely to get exploited imo. if nitty behind I min raise fold. If likely to call wide then I open fold.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Junior Senior on February 04, 2014, 11:54:42 AM
Didnt even consider raise folding. I think also i actually had 5k less than initially posted so perhaps had just 10.5bbs. What would be the shortest bb stack you'd raise fold from? I think under 10 would be bad.

I am getting more and more annoyed at this shove now i think about it. Should have walked around the room and checked out short stacks and grinded like a pussy to 36th on reflection especially as i sattied my way in for ~£65.

However, if i shove and they all fold i wouldn't even have posted this so maybe its taught me a lesson. #resultsorientedftw


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: Sulphur man on February 04, 2014, 09:22:39 PM
Actually just rechecked todays date and was surprised it was still Feb.
Raise/folding from 10bbs with absolute junk  ;bigadz;  :dontask:
Surely a level? Im guilty of folding down to less but not this particular act.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: DMorgan on February 05, 2014, 12:33:16 AM
I'd probs still r/f this off 9bbs vs described villains


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: pleno1 on February 05, 2014, 02:38:43 PM
I'd probs still r/f this off 9bbs vs described villains

same


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: lucky_scrote on February 05, 2014, 11:21:46 PM
Think I'd lean towards folding here but in reality if I'm sat there I'm opening because it's live and you see a hand once every 5 minutes.


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: DMorgan on February 05, 2014, 11:26:32 PM
Think I'd lean towards folding here but in reality if I'm sat there I'm opening because it's live and its on the bubble so you see a hand once every 5 15 minutes.

FYP

<3 live MTTs


Title: Re: £500 deepstack shove or fold near bubble?
Post by: action man on February 06, 2014, 03:10:25 AM
raise/fold