blonde poker forum

villain is very good mid-high stakes reg

PokerStars Zoom Hand #112827058716:  Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2014/03/05 23:25:22 CET [2014/03/05 17:25:22 ET]
Table 'Centaurus' 6-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: IHasOuts ($1385.20 in chips)
Seat 2: Azn1nvas1on ($1009.10 in chips)
Seat 3: WhatAFuuuuu ($1193.96 in chips)
Seat 4: pads1161 ($1688.28 in chips)
Seat 5: Apotheosis92 ($3064.39 in chips)
Seat 6: fake110 ($1167.88 in chips)
Azn1nvas1on: posts small blind $5
WhatAFuuuuu: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to pads1161 [Kc Qc]
pads1161: raises $15 to $25
Apotheosis92: folds
fake110: folds
IHasOuts: folds
Azn1nvas1on: raises $75 to $100
WhatAFuuuuu: folds
pads1161: calls $75
*** FLOP *** [Kh Ah 4c]
Azn1nvas1on: bets $120
pads1161: calls $120
*** TURN *** [Kh Ah 4c] [Qd]
Azn1nvas1on: checks
pads1161: checks
*** RIVER *** [Kh Ah 4c Qd] [5c]
Azn1nvas1on: checks
pads1161: checks

Seems fine. At the stakes I play (lower), i'd be betting the turn most of the time. Don't think you would ever get called by worse on both turn and river vs someone decent. vs someone good it's really thin on river if you bet... I imagine he'd be folding AJ given preflop + flop action, pretty hard for AJ to be good.
I'd probably bet the turn as you can have some FD + Ax hand which villain can call with worse than KQ.

I don't think it's bad at all to be checking back twice though, you'll rarely get called by worse even once.

Do you think you'll ever get check-raised on turn or river? Does this factor into your decision not to bet either street? I assume it's not that easy for villain to c-raise either street with air as you can still have AK, TJhh, TJcc, QQ, 44 hands + AA/KK sometimes.

I think with it being difficult for villain to c/r turn as a bluff we can get away with a bet on the turn since we still have some FDs so I'd expect him to call with some AJ/AT type hands but yeah its somewhat thin. As played though I think checking river is probably best. Once we check the turn we have a showdown hand a lot so I wouldn't expect villain to be bluffcatching river a ton. The range that we don't get value from by checking river seems super thin so I don't have a problem with KQ being the top of my check back range.

Think line is fine.

Does KQ = AQ here?

I'll save him some typing.

[05/03/2014 22:43:03] Adam Picken: how different is kq/aq otr?
[05/03/2014 22:43:31] Patrick Leonard: well aq beats kq lol

Pads can you explain the turn check pls, I thinks it's really interesting

(Not saying I think it's bad or anything, I'm saying I really wanna hear your thought process :-) )

Guess this just comes down to history, like if you've been bluffing a fair % vs him then I guess he can legit expect you to take off on the river a reasonable %, in which case checking AK/AQ to you is a pretty sweet spot

I think you should bet turn, check river unimproved.  I don't think you get check raised very often on the turn unless you are crushed anyway.  I think villain can def put you on a flush draw and peel one off.
Also if villain has say AJ/A10 he can def call the turn and if even if he always folds AJ that's still not a bad result for us as AJ has 12 outs versus our hand here.  By checking the turn we just let him freeroll us with these types of hands.
Say he's trapping with a better hand then he'll prob bet the river and we'll call anyway so we can also decide the price of showdown by betting ourselves.

such an incredible reply

My first thought was to bet the turn to charge flush draws, rep floats and get value from AJ/AT. However due to preflop our range is capped at AQ with the occasional (say 20%?) AK+ thrown in whereas he has perhaps 90% of these combos and at a guess 25% of JTs. If he's good and thinks we're also good he can put us in a coffin if we bet turn. We want to have some slightly stronger hands in our turn check-back range as well.

I'm torn on the river but certainly wouldn't say that checking is bad.

I'm pretty sure we have close to 100% AK combos here. Getting AK in pre is going to be very thin, and I doubt we often raise flop. Since we can also have TJ AA KK I really don't think we often get c/r on the turn by bluffs. I think we should be b/f turn for more or less the reasons mondeo says.

As played I think river check is fine, I think you'd be far more likely to get c/r bluff here, since our range has become very capped, obviously there are less draws to extract money from, whilst the range of worse hands that call is very narrow, especially after checking back turn which weights our perceived range to medium strength showdown hands.

yeah and only 43 more like that and he can apply for staking!

Its better to bet turn, our hand plays alot better range wise with a bet here. Also if we are having such trouble in vbetting2p here I'd just fold pre with 100bb stacks.

I don't think pre and river decisions are correlated in this spot tbh, I certainly wouldn't be folding KQs PF for one extra bet.

I actually prefer checking the turn. (disclaimer: played with villain alot)

Firstly in order to bet the turn to protect against hands suggested AT/AJ ( or any Axs) the assumption has to be made that the villain is merging, which imo is a dangerous game vs an utg open from a competent player. Continuing with c/betting those hands would make him extremely exploitable (something i know first hand he isn't) as his checking range would be too weak and his betting range way too thin vs a UTG continuing. This is just about the best candidate for checking back, and i'd also check the river.

Those who say check turn - what is your plan if he bets river?
Those who say bet/fold turn - same question

This hand is really interesting! I don't know the villain so I can't decide either way on my turn action. However, I agree that checking the river is the right course of action for both!

I think we need to look at his bb 3b vs our utg raise first

% that is