blonde poker forum

#Game No : 576780184
***** 888poker Hand History for Game 576780184 *****
$0.05/$0.10 Blinds Pot Limit Omaha - ***
Table Pori 6 Max (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: bajadera ( $15.45 )
Seat 2: ferrari_77 ( $3.25 )
Seat 4: valm876 ( $11.17 )
Seat 6: Runcaster ( $13.79 )
Seat 7: Goamen ( $10 )
Seat 9: beaver808 ( $18.55 )
ferrari_77 posts small blind [$0.05]
valm876 posts big blind [$0.10]
Goamen posts big blind [$0.10]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to beaver808 [ Aspades, Td, 6h,  Ahrt ]
Runcaster folds
Goamen checks
beaver808 raises [$0.45]
bajadera folds
ferrari_77 folds
valm876 raises [$0.70]
Goamen folds
beaver808 calls [$0.35]
** Dealing flop ** [ 9d, Qh, 6d ]
valm876 bets [$1.31]
beaver808 calls [$1.31] - Should we have raised here?

its a slamdunk re raise pre flop. you can call flop but be real wary of all the turns that improve the draws out there.

You're in position pre and 111bb deep, you stop clicking raise after he does.

I like the flat :)

Now I would most definitely not raise. We have to take off a turn

Dealt to beaver808 [ Aspades , Td , 6h , Ahrt   ]
Runcaster folds
Goamen checks
beaver808 raises [$0.45]
bajadera folds
ferrari_77 folds
valm876 raises [$0.70]
Goamen folds
beaver808 calls [$0.35]
** Dealing flop ** [ 9d ,  Qh ,  6d  ]
valm876 bets [$1.31]


Ok, so I took the turn.  2c

Beaver808 bets 2.18, villain calls

In hindsight it was a bit of a brick, should I have potted it?

Hmmmmmmmmmm I'm gonna have  a very hard time believing flat is better against somebody who min3bet here. Reasons mulhuzz?

I flatted because I thought although I had the big A's in there it wasn't as draw heavy as I would like, I find playing tight at these levels works quite well. If someone min-3 bets they usually aren't folding to a 4-bet and it all goes in pre-flop. Getting it all in pre wouldn't be the worst thing in the world but I'm trying to plug the leaks in my game.

With Poker in general I find I have 3 leaks that need adrressing. Calling too light too often & also not getting enough value from made hands. I'm in a frustrating place at the moment so decided to hit the PHA forum..

imo pre-flop this hand should def be in an auto four-bet range, along with various double suited stuff that isn't in tragic shape to a five bet.

Obviously larger pots are tricky to play but good players manage to do it, so trying to avoid them is going to cost you money and hinder your development.

Wise points. I think as my BR grows into 3 figures I'll start playing the bigger pot situation. I do feel I lost value in this hand though, not so much through the pre-flop action but definitely through not betting bigger. At this point I was still wary of 2-pair or sets hands.

like to have some of the drier Aces protecting my flat range here, and this one has a NFD and a couple of perfect perfect straights which seems good.

Would also sometimes just 4b/call as well though, but I think the flat is absolutely fine as well.

PRE-FLOP


I don't think this needs to be a concern of ours AT ALL here, our range that calls the 3bet will have a whole ton of powerful hands in it 79TJds, AKKT and so on, whereas I'm sure there is some merit to having AA in our range for A-high and low paired boards post-flop I think our range (providing we're calling enough PF) will be plenty strong enough on boards like A86 not to worry about being capped at no AAA, I think actually our range will play VERY well on this board given that EVERYONE (at all stakes) over-CBETS those boards OOP as the PF 3bettor.

Whereas it's quite cool and tricky flatting PF, I think the spots that its best to do it in are quite complex to identify and I think at these stakes where the player pool is very wide and the standard of play tends to be less aggressive you'd really struggle to ever find a spot where 4betting is not better than flatting, given how many immediate benefits there are to 4betting;

1) Most money in now with an (almost certain) equity advantage

2) He can make some very bad calls vs our 4bet - our 4bet range is very AA** heavy, yet I see al the time (at all limits) people calling here with KK** AKJ9etc, dbl pair hands (im guilty of that lol) so when we have him commiting 25~big blinds with hands that play very poorly against us it creates for us a VERY good spot

3) Play-ability, obviously this type of AA is much easier to play when there is $5 in the pot and $6.50 behind, it's very, very difficult for us to make a mistake (basically 99% of the time we'll just be AI on the flop in whatever way)

4) Less of a concern again with the wide player pool, but people noticing you not 3/4betting AA makes you a MUCH MUCH easier target for 3bets pre-flop, given that you are very likely not 4betting often enough if you are not 4betting AA in spots like this.

Often people seem to play these AA passively in spots such as this because they are nervous about playing a big pot with what is likely to only be 1pair, whereas its defo correct to be nervous about that, you just have to embrace it and pounce on the fact that there is a very equitable play available, and not taking it will almost certainly cost you money, imo.

POST-FLOP

once we get to the flop here, folding is defo not an option (which in a way is kinda a shame given how ropey the board is for us - and one of the reasons for playing our AA passively Pre-Flop is so we can get away on bad flops) however we just have too much of it here, the Td blocker (very relevant) backdoor flush draw and a 6 (although more useful for blocking 2p hands than overly beneficial to our equity) and given that he has a lot of KK in his range (a lot of which will hit this board quite well though) so our options are call, and be prepared to get AI reasonably light on some nasty turns, or just shove now.

It's close for me.

I think if I were to call, i'd be folding on J, K, 8 and diamond turns for sure, I think 7 and 5 turns we have to go with, same with 9's, and obviously A's hearts and 6's we'll be loving, the two really tricky ones are o/s T's and Q's i'd be pretty I'd hope we'd get the chance to check back on a Q and i'd be pretty tempted to fold if he bets...also would be pretty tempted to go with it on T's and if it's checked to me I think I'd have to pot to protect my hand.

On the two of clubs vs another bet I think it's a very clear jam, we have only 1 relevant blocker to bluff rivers on certain cards and we have some FE, I think going AI now is defo the best play.

Aye, you must be pretty deece at this 4 card malarky.

Solid post.

Firstly, the depth of information and generosity of those inputting to this board never fail to astound me! Thanks all.

SuuPRlim, great post and great points!

Looking at the situation as a whole do you think there's a general misconception that AAxx hands often get beaten  weaker starting hands that end up with straights, flushes, 2pair, sets in Omaha. Does this lead to the AA being played passively as people at these stakes think they aren't as strong as they are?

I've read through all your post Dave and I still like flatting here!

I really don't mind either option. I don't think one is too much better than the other.

yeh basically, I think people refuse glaringly profitable situations because they are put of by the variance of inflated pots PF in PLO (speshly with AA where you can get AI quite badly post-flop) but the really profitable spot is PRE-FLOP when you get to put half your stack in with an equity advantage, and with a decent amount of fold equity on the flops (they fold hands that might runner flushes or 2p's etc) and still with the opppurtunity to be AI in great shape (so when it comes KT4 and you jam and T986ds calls - as it always will - and you get the second half of your stack in with 65% as well)

Not saying i totally disagree with you Cos (as I defo don't) but interesting to hear YOUR reasons for preferring to flat, would you advocate any non AA 4bets here in this spot specifically?