blonde poker forum

My image should be fairly straightforward, shown down a bunch of good hands, can't say much about villains' image as I've been on 10+ tables, haven't seen him get out of line

PokerStars Hand #117571066269: Tournament #920731410, $200+$15 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2014/06/15 21:25:03 WET [2014/06/15 16:25:03 ET]
Table '920731410 110' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Lupario (5135 in chips)
Seat 2: wazzbot (23610 in chips)
Seat 3: kay82_ps (12634 in chips)
Seat 4: Die Ventura (19399 in chips)
Seat 5: JBzzzr (15615 in chips)
Seat 6: hemann1 (8881 in chips)
Seat 7: Magardan (7795 in chips)
Seat 8: Zgaga (2955 in chips)
Seat 9: TrEvgEndA (22239 in chips)
Lupario: posts the ante 25
wazzbot: posts the ante 25
kay82_ps: posts the ante 25
Die Ventura: posts the ante 25
JBzzzr: posts the ante 25
hemann1: posts the ante 25
Magardan: posts the ante 25
Zgaga: posts the ante 25
TrEvgEndA: posts the ante 25
Magardan: posts small blind 125
Zgaga: posts big blind 250
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to wazzbot [Ks Js]
TrEvgEndA: folds
Lupario: folds
wazzbot: calls 250
kay82_ps: folds
Die Ventura: raises 535 to 785
JBzzzr: folds
hemann1: folds
Magardan: folds
Zgaga: folds
wazzbot: calls 535
*** FLOP *** [7s Kh 6h]
wazzbot: checks
Die Ventura: bets 868
wazzbot: calls 868
*** TURN *** [7s Kh 6h] [3s]
wazzbot: checks
Die Ventura: checks
*** RIVER *** [7s Kh 6h 3s] [8h]
wazzbot: checks

Like all so far, dont see myself folding river but pretty brutal one.

I think raising in the mil might be better when your chipped up, prefer it more off 35bb or so. Plus sometimes you get to gamble with the shortie in the bb and thats fun.

why is river brutal? hes going to barrel hearts and 9t v often

Hes not going to bluff it that much then right? So we're just closing our eyes and calling. Completely know what you mean tho, maybe it is a good river then.

the old limping debate rages on :P

So I see alll the merits of having a limp/call range in all sorts of scenarios, and have myself experimented with them in every format (PLO, NL tournaments etc) and whereas the merits ARE there, I have yet to find myself or see a limping strategy (besides super exploitative ones obviously) that is better than just opening the correct range in each spot and then widening it up to include some of the better limp, but weaker opening hands when you deem nessercary.

All we ever seem to achieve is we put some (albeit fairly small) money in with weak hands (often OOP) abd then put Less money in with stronger hands.

Like for me, in the Sunday Million I'd want to be putting more than 1bb in pre-flop with Ks Js

I do believe there are some good limping strategies out there, but have yet to see one, or think of one myself, I actuallly think a great deal of the time it's just another FPS variant.

Sunday Mil is a weaker tournament for it too imo. I agree with all of Daves thoughts for the most part, Pads and I have been to war a few times about a limp he did with QJ ages ago that even now when I try to remember the hand seems bad but he has managed to convince me it was good before. I think blind vs blind it is definitely something that you need as part of your range and I'm sure the top hyper guys do it.

I think I would prefer to just open this here too.

I very very rarely open limp (other than is some SB spots).

i really think if youre not limping then its a pretty significant leak in current mtt strategy.

example i have qts in the cut off if i open in some spots some regs will 100% 3bet me with k2,k3,k4,k5,k6,k7,q2,q3,q4,q5,q6 and so so many more combos because they can manipulate stack sizes, if i limp theres around 15% chance that they isoraise me with any of those combos.

dont want to go that much detail regarding limping, but similarily there are spots where doing anything but limping is really bad, also from early positions with 15-20bb stacks.

peoples static pre flop bet sizes is the biggest leak of bad regs in 2014.

Where did u get those numbers from? Saying some people will do something 100% of the time is wrong without infinite sample. However if its right - and we know they 3bet us this much with this junk then we can exploit the fk out of it by 4bing tons / peeling pre vs aggro opponents and going mad when we flop decent equity (which isn't a made hand) / stationing down when we flop a pair.

Would be interested to chat on Skype about the spots where doing anything but limping is bad, drop me a message 2moro if u fancy it.

ye i dont get that either :/ why im not BITB i guess

On the hand above would fold river to a bet vs this guy - hard for him to be bluffing.

Really don't like limping a hand this strong in the milly just under 100bbs deep. People give it away in the milly, u flop a lot of dominating top pairs / better draws...etc.

Maybe Pads is just a whale on a heater! ;busted;

fyp

I can defo buy all of this, affective limp strategies exist for sure. They are just almost always either fundamentally incorrect or poorly applied.

Pads without giving too many secrets away did you ever get anything like this working for 6max play?

yeh ypu can do this and just have a fuck tonne of variance and have spots that are potentially bad and bust out a lot in tournaments from 10th-25th or just play way lower variance that might be slightly lower ev. i try to play as low variance a spossible in as many spots as possible.

its like shoving a 0.1% jam is +ev but when ive been recalculating ranges i look for 5% edges.


yeh i made a few private videos on it that i never released mainly about limping button. again dont wanna go into detail, but one of the highest variance and toughest spots in no limit holdem 100bb stakcs is facing a 3bet sb v btn and he bet, bet, jams the river for pot sized bet and we just basicaly guess most of the time.

limping quickly removes this problem

I guess limping any hand in late position is entire villian dependant anyway. I guess it's no different to limping the small blind knowing the BB always 3bets so you limp call your broadway hands. However I think limping in early position is difficult over 20bb but I can see merit limping late position villian dependant

and btw i dont mean everybody should start limoing 99.9% of people shouldnt.

to win at mtts just play tight and let people spew and understand shove/fold situations.

i just mean vs very tough players in high stakes mtts if youre not limping then youre likely leaking somewhere.

Lets talk on skype about this I wanna pick your brains :P

Pretty much all you need to know about Mtts. In the past people were too tight so an aggro style would do well. These days people are too aggro and just spew too much. Probably a reason why Phil Hellmuth is doing better these days as people just spew into him.  I mean I use to spew like crazy in mtts but since I've reeled it in I've had much more positive results.

not quick enough brah xx

I started limping a lot more around 2-3 months ago. When I say I limp a lot more, I still rarely do it as I virtually never did it before.

I very rarely do it with really deep stacks because IMO there really aren't many good regs around. Most of them auto pilot. In the SM it's full of fishes and it wouldn't even spring to mind, KJs is a pretty good hand imo.

I've been doing it more with 25-30bb stacks when I have a really annoying reg that likes to put me in tough spots by 3b'ing me and I'm OOP with a hand like ATo, A7s and broadway hands. I did actually limp in the million lasst Sunday come to think about it, it was the first level so 200bb deep and I had 99 otb with the BB sat out. Was a tight reg in the SB and just figured he's going to flick in 25 chips from the SB with almost everything but play extremely tight to just a MR. Obviously I'm not building the pot very well, but I felt like it was the right thing to do at the time.

I mean this in the nicest possible way but these could only be the words of someone running very hot.

ask any real mtt grinder 3 years ago who they thought were the best and everybody would say xxx, yyy, zzz (dont wanna call them out) because they are nice guys. But they were crazy, aggressive, always 3betting etc.

Ask most guys now and people aspire to be people like robinho and other tight guys.

very happy for the running hot stuff to come around, but from looking at literally 600 full hhs this year (prob more than anybody else) ive studied all styles very seriously.

and the biggest mistake you will see any fish, reg, bad reg, good reg, best reg, worst reg, cash game player etc make will be stacking off too light/playing too aggressive/ playing too fps/ trying too many things. Almost none of their leaks is playing too tight.

I've got a relatively small sample size but I've tried playing tight and I end up chipping down heavily. My strategy is obviously never as simplistic as that - I open up my game according to conditions - and I do certainly spew sometimes, but the only times I've ever had good results - Int Freeroll, EPT San Remo, party highroller, 2nd in party sunday major a couple of years back (all within six weeks of each other) - had nothing to do with playing tight or playing loose, I played well and ran hot at the right times. Since then I might be down $80k in MTTs overall. 'Just' playing tight, never getting it in light, rarely bluffing, not trying anything new, appears to be a losing strategy for me. Again, I understand that variance is high and especially so in a lot of the MTTs I've played being massive fields, and it's certainly easy to have run awful over this period and have that account for my losses, but just to say 'keep it simple, value-bet hard, don't spew' etc isn't enough.

FWIW I knew before I posted the hand that this should be a raise pre at this stack depth - I've been experimenting with limping some of the time and this isn't the right spot to do it in. I was more interested in whether I should have played the hand differently postflop at all.