blonde poker forum

I have in the past put a couple of hand analysis up and they have been shot to the ground so I stopped doing it. I am not a good player..never claimed to be..so here goes again...I am looking for advice, if you cant offer it then please dont post.

Table Name Hand ID Game Stakes
$3 - NL - 9 Seats 6817129-2 Holdem No Limit 20/40
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Hand Start.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has $2,230
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 2 : doghousedar has $1,960
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 3 : saintdave has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 5 : marbar has $1,870
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 6 : snailer has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 7 : BCslider has $1,960
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 8 : fish pod has $2,000
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 9 : darkangel13 has $1,980
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : darkangel13 is the dealer.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : shootingfish posted small blind.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : doghousedar posted big blind.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Game [2] started with 9 players.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Dealing Hole Cards.
[Jan 27 00:48:10] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has 3h 2h
[Jan 27 00:48:12] : saintdave folded.
[Jan 27 00:48:14] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 7 min. 
[Jan 27 00:48:52] : MissHoolie called 40
[Jan 27 00:48:54] : marbar folded.
[Jan 27 00:48:56] : snailer folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:00] : BCslider called 40
[Jan 27 00:49:02] : fish pod folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:04] : darkangel13 folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:07] : shootingfish called 20
[Jan 27 00:49:07] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 7 min. 
[Jan 27 00:49:07] : doghousedar checked.
[Jan 27 00:49:08] : Dealing flop.
[Jan 27 00:49:08] : Board cards [3d 2d Ah]
[Jan 27 00:49:09] : MissHoolie : tickling sticks not allowed brw
[Jan 27 00:49:19] : shootingfish bet 80
[Jan 27 00:48:51] : doghousedar called 80
[Jan 27 00:48:53] : MissHoolie called 80
[Jan 27 00:48:57] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 6 min. 
[Jan 27 00:49:01] : BCslider folded.
[Jan 27 00:49:01] : Dealing turn.
[Jan 27 00:49:01] : Board cards [3d 2d Ah Qh]
[Jan 27 00:49:11] : shootingfish bet 200
[Jan 27 00:49:12] : doghousedar called 200
[Jan 27 00:49:16] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 6 min. 
[Jan 27 00:49:19] : MissHoolie called 200 and raised 1,680 and is All-in
[Jan 27 00:49:52] : shootingfish called 1,680 and raised 230 and is All-in
[Jan 27 00:49:52] : Under-Raise rules are now in effect.
[Jan 27 00:49:56] : doghousedar called 1,640 and is All-in
[Jan 27 00:49:56] : Showdown!
[Jan 27 00:49:56] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has 3h 2h
[Jan 27 00:49:57] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has 5c 4h
[Jan 27 00:49:57] : Seat 2 : doghousedar has 5s 4c
[Jan 27 00:49:57] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has 3h 2h
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Board cards [3d 2d Ah Qh 6d]
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has 5c 4h
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish has Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has 3h 2h
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : MissHoolie has Two Pair: 3s and 2s
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish wins 80 with Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 1 : shootingfish has 5c 4h
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish has Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 2 : doghousedar has 5s 4c
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : doghousedar has Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : Seat 4 : MissHoolie has 3h 2h
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : MissHoolie has Two Pair: 3s and 2s
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : shootingfish ties 2,960 with Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:02] : doghousedar ties 2,960 with Straight 65432
[Jan 27 00:50:07] : Stakes: 20/40 Current level: 1 Next level in: 6 min. 
[Jan 27 00:50:12] : MissHoolie : oops
[Jan 27 00:50:17] : Hand is over.

Hey don't be defensive suzanne, I am sorry you felt your previous hand histories were shot down in flames


We will try and do better this time



I don't think I call pre flop

I think I raise on the flop in case any one is drawing to a flush or the straight or has the straight


Then if anyone calls my raise I have to proceed slower

I have to believe if you raise here on the flop you get a reraise from one of the straights worried about the flush

Do you pass? maybe not, but at least you can pass and save some chips

As it is you think you are winning after a non diamond turn....bet you were surprised when they both had 45!!  :D

Suzanne babe don't be too negative, the truth is some peeps on here are very passionate about hand analysis and believe "telling it straight" is the best policy when they see what they consider a bad play, i'm sure it was never meant to be abusive or condascending (sp?) to you.

My opinion is that you did what i do, call with a rubbish hand and try to hit a flop.
You succeeded but unfortunately so did they, that's just part of the game.
I probably would have reraised the flop and ended up putting my chips in then because i think someone with a weak ace is donating :D
As it is the turn was a great card for you and you just can't get away from it IMO.
It's the risk you take, most times you flop 2 pair you are miles in front.

Out of interest how long have you been playing suzanne?
I'm guessing not very long. Trying to play these kind of hands is very tricky because you will leave yourself with tougher decisions.
Pre-flop - you should have folded you don't know it is gonna be a multiway pot and you are out of position - keep it simple.
Flop - I'm raising this flop as you almost certainly have the best hand but thereare many turn cards whichwill kill your hand or give somebody a better 2 pair. Make it about 250.
        If you are re-popped on the flop you almost certainly have to lay this hand down. You have the weakest 2 pair and if you are up against something like A-4d you are in bad shape to  
        stay ahead.
Turn - Ok 2 pair and a flush draw but notice shooting fish hasn't slowed down, he is in the small blind and his most likely hand here is A2 or A3. I would probably smooth call the 200 as your
          hand looks better than it actually is and you needed to improve to win.

Notice a lot of these 'funky' hands require more feel and knowledge of your opponents. I started as a tight player and as my game has evolved I have started to be a bit more creative but when I first loosened up my results suffered and I was constantly out early, so it is all about finding a balance.

In these small buy in tournaments keeping it simple is the best way to play as some of these players are REALLY bad and will gift you chips, nothing wrong with waiting for a hand and getting paid off.

Keep at it and cut out the limping with garbage until you evolve as a player! Good Luck

:goodpost:

Wow, firstly WHAT a piece of gold JP's analysis is. It's just wonderful that a top player like JP devoted so much of his time to help Suzanne, & ends up helping us all. I nominate JP as "Top blonde Schoolboy". I shudder to think how good he will be when he is fully grown. That is truly an astonishigly well-thought out Post. Thanks JP.

Now to Suzanne. I have PM'd you my personal apology, but I'm happy to go on Forum & apologize if you were flamed for your play. That is NOT acceptable to me, & it will not be allowed to happen again. You need to feel comfy here, & not have any fears that you will be flamed or intimidated. We will make sure you are respected just as much as the Billy Big Names.

Can we move on from there?

JP Excellent post... and Suzanne you can't go wrong by listening to the young chap!

As he said the best way to start playing is to play tight, Get used to passing most hands that are'nt "good hands" that means stop playing hands like 23suited Q7suited etc! I get the feeling that you like the suited cards but they get you in trouble so often that early on when you start playing you should leave these hands alone, unless they are "premium"

Once you have become comfortable with your game, and the fact that you know what is a good hand and what is a bad one! You will see that your decisions become so much easier... I was exactly the same as JP started off as a tight player, then once i become more experienced i began realising that i could experiment with different hands. But still play best when i keep the junk hands down to a minimum when the time is right for them!

If you keep posting your histories then you will get alot of help from the people on here, and i'm sure you will keep on improving!

Goodluck

everything has pretty much been said suzanne, the only thing i will say is that it doesnt really matter wot u bet on the flop, if this guy has called an all in with an up and down straight draw with 1 card to come, there is no way he is going away with 2 cards to come, so nothing u coulda done woulda got them to fold. take care and gl

I often point new players to this page on blonde, excellent guide from el blondie on playable hands and when/when not to play them.

http://blondepoker.com/beginners/005006.html

Nevermind all that, why are tickling sticks not allowed?

Erm, I think holding 4 5 on an A 2 3 flop means they already had the straight.....

that is a good piece but there is one flaw in it

74, 73, 72, 63, 62, 53, 52, 43, 42, 32 - Pass these hands. They are unprofitable

7-4!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DC, may God have mercy on your soul.

ps. What the hell are tickling sticks and why aren't you allowed them?

On rereading my opening post I think perhaps I worded it a little too strongly, so I apologise for that. On a previous thread someone had said that it was the worse play he had ever seen which left me feeling a little embarrassed...its a girl thing but... I'm over it now   :D

I usually find 2 3 suited is a very lucky hand for me so when I get it I just HAVE to play it. I know I should have folded preflop but since my chips are in there I wanted to know how you guys would have played it.

Thank you all for your advice and epecially JP as that is exactly what I wanted to know. You are right I havent been playing very long but I have a passion for the game and a thirst to become a better player which is one of the reasons I find this forum a real treasure.

I will try to tighten up my game and as has been suggested...keep it simple. A sound piece of advise which I am going to write down and stick on my monitor.

I still want to know about the tickling stick...

Thanks, I'm glad you've cleared that matter up for me! :D

Good post JP.

23 suited is a tough hand to play as even the good hands you flop with it will often be 2nd best or extremely vulnerable.

It's been said before but the best way to play as a starter is to be tight.

Play a narrow range of premium hands and learn to play them well. The problem with playing tightly is often boredom. You want to get involved, not fold, fold, fold.

To counter this, take the time between your good hands to watch your opponents.

 What hands are they playing?
Do they seem to bluffing a lot?
Are they aggressive, passive, tight, loose, mental?

Picking up information when you are not in a hand is a really useful skill and one that will give you a real edge over other players who aren't as observant.

Keep posting hands. The urge to improve your game for me is the key to poker.

2-3? It's no different really to 3-9, or 6-Q, or even, whisper it quietly, 7-4. We get our litttle fave hands & we follow them slavishly because we once won a big pot with them. My advice is....DON'T. They will cost you a lot of money over the long term. Mess around with suited connectors by all means, but real junk must be saved for "free rides" in the BB, or "fun" comps.

Peeps like to say "ooh, I won with 7-4". Very nice. It's better to say "I won the comp". Or so I'm told.

Dump the junk!

or even

"I chopped the comp"...


I'll get me coat....

Hi Suzanne,

Good advice so far and I’d like to offer my own opinion which might help as I’m also an inexperienced player but do play a lot of these low level sit and go's.

Folding this hand preflop is very sound advice.  Playing really low value suited connectors is fraught with danger. Very difficult to win with them or, perhaps more importantly, for inexperienced players it’s difficult to know that you’re winning with them. Finding out will probably cost chips!

Consider this hand of 2-3 suited. If they make a pair…there’s likely a bigger pair or better kicker.  If they make a set there could be a bigger set or again one with better kicker.If they make a straight it’s likely to be the lower end of it.  2-3 cannot be the high end of a straight.  If it makes a flush you might well come up against a higher flush especially if 4 of same suit comes on the board.  Maybe a slightly negative way of looking at it but one I believe will serve you well.

This leaves you looking to make a full house before you know that it’s likely you’re winning and of course they don’t come around very often..

If despite this you still want to play them ( little suited connectors) then consider your position on table. You might be happy to play them if it just costs a flat call but there are still 7 people here ( inc blinds ) to act behind you.  Any of these people could raise it up and do you want to call a raise with 2-3 suited.?

But having played this hand and getting to the position after the turn you are now faced with a raise of 200...so what to do next?

An important point here would be to consider what the other person(s) could have that would be beating you.  Yes 2 pairs is a good hand but at the moment you’re behind if either of the other players has……

AA, QQ, 33, 22, AQ, A3, A2, Q3, Q2 plus of course 45.

This represents a lot of danger, too much danger surely to risk your tournament life?  Bear in mind there has already been a bet and call after the turn, so the other two players are clearly still interested in the hand.

Also this list above doesn’t mention any hand on a flush draw ( hearts or diamonds ) who may also call your all in bet  ( this is a $3 tourny so could well happen )

Ok you have a flush draw too but you might hit it and still lose out to a bigger flush (unlikely but can’t be ruled out)

So to win this hand you probably need to hit a full house on river so odds are not with you here.

All in all surely too many danger signs here to make the big all-in move?

One final point to bear in mind that it is still very early days in this tournament  ( blinds only 20/40 still 7 mins to next level ) and you can easily afford to be patient.

There will undoubtedly be better opportunities to get your chips in than this!

Hope this helps.
Keith

 :goodpost:


post more sir, where've you been on this board? post more

Well he obviously hasn't seen this thread

http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=6430.0


I shudder to think how stupid that mod feels

Who WAS that Mod Tom?

 :goodpost:

I think my problem is that I tend to be a bit tunnel visioned on the hands I put my opponents on. I usually play quite tight so when some one calls/raises I put them on a monster hand.

To explain my train of thoughts...

After the flop I had put matey 1 + 2 on either A rag (maybe 2 or 3 but hopefully not), pk pair or a flush draw. I still believed I was ahead.

When Qh came on the turn I realized I could be in trouble as AQ or QQ had me beat and also ANY red card could hit a flush and so I went all in representing AQ/QQ and hopping to scare off any pk pair or flush draw as I did not think the AA was out there either.

My mistake was not even considering 45 as this hand would be a fold to most players but of course they were both on the blinds...dooooh

I think as Junglecat said I play these hands through boredom though I dont have that excuse in this case as it was only the second hand  rotflmfao

Funnily enough in the game I have just played I looked up to see 23 suited "Oh no" I thought, so with a shaking hand I clicked the fold button. Flop comes up 332 ARRRGGGHHH...turn rag...river A...3 way allin pot and matey boy turns over his AA  rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao rotflmfao