blonde poker forum

In the space of 24 hours I received these emails from 2 of the biggest Asian bookies online...

"Dear Valued Member,

Good day!

Due to a business decision, we wish to inform you that effective on 30th September 2014, 12BET.com Sports book products will no longer be available to members who had signed up from United Kingdom (UK).

However, you may continue to enjoy 12BET Casino games as normal and avail yourself to existing CASINO bonus promotions on the website."

and...

"SBOBET to Discontinue Betting Services for Your Account from 15 September 2014

Dear DAVID,

It is with regret that we wish to advise you that we are no longer able to continue to offer you the betting services with SBOBET.

This unfortunate circumstance has been brought about by the changes to the legislation in your country of residence with regard to online gambling. Unfortunately, it will now be necessary to close your SBOBET Account with effect from 15 September 2014.

However, all outstanding bets you have already placed for events scheduled after 15 September 2014 will not be affected and will be settled once they have been determined. In this event, your Account will remain available for login after 15 September 2014, solely for the purposes of withdrawal of funds but no further betting can be carried out.

If you have any funds remaining in your SBOBET Account, the Account will remain accessible to you for the purposes of withdrawing funds. Kindly sign in, check your balance and make your withdrawal request immediately.

For Accounts with no outstanding bets, if we do not receive a withdrawal request by 30 September 2014, it will be necessary for us to close your SBOBET Account and arrange for the remaining funds to be returned to you via your current nominated payment option.

We wish to take this opportunity to thank you for your fantastic support in the past and would be more than pleased to be of service to you again in the event that there is a change in the regulatory landscape of your country of residence.

In the meantime, if you have any questions, please contact us at support@sbobet.com. Alternatively, you can contact SBOBET Support Team by phone at Europe: +44 1624 721960 and by fax at Europe: +44 1624 721966.


Yours sincerely
SBOBET Support Team"



Since these are 2 of around only 5 bookies that will actually lay a bet then this is pretty bad news.  Any idea what the new legislation is? - is it the 15% tax the government were planning on introducing?  If Pinnacle and 5Dimes follow then I'm well and truly f*cked.

Hi gherkin,

No, it's the introduction by the Gaming Commissioin of new Licences. An Online Gaming Site will NOT be able to operate in the UK without one of these, & they are VERY hard to get, a lot of boxes need to be ticked. In some caes, it is effectively impossible for an overseas site to get a UK Licence, so they simply have to cease trading here, there is no way round it.

http://www.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/

I've no idea what Pinnacle plan to do - redarmi may have a line on that.

Thanks for the info - not good news at all.  Asian brokers FTW!

The irony that the bookies who will actually lay a bet are the ones who are refused licences, whereas the FOBT cowards are allowed to carry on with no problem.

Secondly it's partly done to 'protect' customers from losing their deposits from mickey mouse outfits who go busto yet the firms in question are probably in the top 5 in the world to ever knock a customer!

It is looking likely to only be the high street bookies left?

I don't know what Pinny plan to do although I could probably find out but think they will probably just ignore it and i am certain 5 Dimes will for the poster that was worried about them given they still take US bets.  Be interesting to see if this means that SBO and IBC decide to stop takng bets from Bloom etc.  Somehow I doubt it.

How would they "ignore it" Stu?

Not doubting you, not at all, but surely Payment Processing is the key, & the GC have made that clear, I believe. Without legit Payment Processing, it gets very awkward. Doubt they want to get involved in "flower shops" & all that nonsense, they are too classy for that I'd imagine.

There is a voluntary agreement to block visa mastercard payments to non-licensed sites.  I would imagine that banks will shut down accounts sending money to illegal sites if they are alerted to it.  E-wallets are all regulated to some extent, so they will be pressured to stop any transfers.

Any money going to an illegal site also runs the risk of getting caught up in money laundering/ PoC stuff.    

The big stumbling block is that the UKGC will not license anyone who operates in illegal markets and probably won't license anyone with a large exposure to grey markets.  So Stars, for example, have a big problem with their Russian market.  Anyone taking US bets has no chance of a license.

Was hoping you'd arrive Mr 2xUp, I know you have a handle on this.

And you are right about the 'Stars headache, & I can't see any way round it if they want to operate here, it'll be goodbye Russia I suppose. Lots of Gaming Sites have a huge headache incoming, I don't think many peope have realised the enormity of the whole thing. 

There'll be some pain for some well known brands shortly, for sure.

Just spotted this via google.....


Asia-focused firms SBOBet, 12Bet and Mansion close parts of their UK-facing businesses ahead of UK licensing changes

Anyone that wants reasonable sized bets (say a few hundred and up) and won't be absolutely taking the p1ss with the business (and, I believe for now, no racing) let me know and I will get a chap to be in touch who should hopefully be of some use.

I got email from Mansion the other day stating the above.

Pinnacle closing to UK residents at the end of the month too

There really must be a non-zero chance of Stars pulling out of the UK as the UKGC is clearly being very picky about grey markets.

Its going to be impossible to get a bet on over £100 soon

PartyPoker group seems to be closing to UK too :(

I gather Winamax will be closing it's doors to UK players imminently.

Can't win on there so whatever

Noooooooo

Source tikay? Or isn't it common knowledge? This sucks so bad.

The is a thread on 2 plus 2 where somebody has written and asked them to clarify.   

Without Winamax, I'd have made nothing the last couple of years.  I know I could have just run really well there and really bad elsewhere, but even then it is worrying.  It can't bode well for stars.fr either.   Must all suck worse on top of the possible issue in Hungary too.  It all shows how precarious the future of professional poker can be.  I wouldn't want to be relying on just stars for my income. 

They were also the only ones where most of the big tournaments finished at a sensible hour.  Seems the others could learn something from them and be a bit more rec friendly. 

It has been widely predicted for some time.

The 2 + 2 thread, complete with confirmation by the Winamax Rep, is here......

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/61/mtt-community/official-winamax-series-ix-thread-special-offers-requests-feedback-1431253/index13.html

The reality is that the latest date for applying for the new Licences was 16th September, which was yesterday.

They decided NOT to apply for the licence, & will close to UK players as & from 30th September this year. 

The guy who can best explain all these moves is DoubleUp.

Winamax won't be the last, either.


2+2 question.....

"....2 things.

After todays update the avatars wont disappear. You can uncheck the option in the menu but they will just reappear.

None of this matters though since Im from the UK and Winamax is shutting it's doors to UK players from 1st October.

Just thought Id let everyone know as it came as a shock to me. If I hadnt stumbled across the UK Gambling Bill thread in legislation forum then Id never have known seeing as Winamax have failed to tell anybody!

The same almost certainly goes for stars.fr as well.

Reply (TODAY) by "WINAMAX DAVE", Winamax Rep was.....

Concerning the new UK online gambling legislation, indeed at this time Winamax has not applied for a UK licence.

Before playing on Winamax, it is the responsibility of all players to ensure that their local law permits them to play online poker at a site licenced in France.

Have a word with Adzy. ;)

Just another nail in the coffin for online poker albeit a reasonably large one.  Surely must have an effect on the online grinders and surely more will be seeking employment outside of poker as a result of this?

Probably a more relevant thread here, which includes sources.



http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/57/poker-legislation-forum-brought-you-ppa/uk-gambling-licensing-advertising-bill-nov-5th-2013-a-1386229/index4.html

My Baldfred telepone account has been resurrected since my french adventures began. Most you cant open. Some like BMU, you can bet one day, not the next. You can even watch a race on the stream one day, and then not the next. TBF the only decent bookie when away is 366.

Online poker. Blimey. Been three years now.

Not really. In the global sense, it will not make a dot of difference really, the UK lads who play on Winamax will just play elsewhere, Stars mainly I suppose. I doubt any British Pros make their living solely on Winamax. UK recreationals don't play on sites like Winamax.

The poker economy works from the bottom up, with the recreationals by FAR the biggest in number, & if anything, they are increasing in volume. 

Its sad & bad that the nosebleed guys & so called "regulars" are feeling the pinch, & I mean that, but more & more the future health of Online Poker is about the micro-limit players.

Ideally, we want ALL levels to be doing well, but the base of the pyramid is the most important part, & thats fine & dandy right now. Most Online sites that have embraced the recreational market are doing just fine, in fact most of them have seen increased traffic.   

The balance is shifting, thats all.

One last hurrah with the few hundred I've got in both sites then :D

Ha, I bet they'll be a few folks having a final spin-up.

Think it is business as usual until 30th September.

I think you are wrong on UK pros making a living off Winamax.  As I said before take away Winamax and I made nothing the last two years.  I am sure I can still make something on Stars playing O8 hypers and keeping away from the biggger MTTs.  But it would be a stretch to call it a living.  I am sure there are more than a handful who play more than 50% of their volume on the French sites.  Marc Wright must win about half his money there now, and wouldn't be surprised if the share of his profits from the French sites is a lot more than that.  I know quite a few of Alex' Goulder's friends were pretty big players there. 

There must be several others where the loss of the French sites will mean that making a living from poker is no longer an option.  They may be able to still make something from the game, but it won't be enough to live on especially if backed.  If you are making 10% ROI on smaller stakes on stars and 30% on bigger stakes on the French sites, the loss of the French siites is going to be a big hit.

I don't suppose you fancy suggesting adding a few mid range tournaments that finish about 1am UK time to a UK facing site?  There must be a market out there for them now. 

Make sure you spend all your miles.  Think I am going to come up annoyingly short of getting the 500 Euro bonus.  Also I just depositted the other day, so might have to make an effort to clear that.  I don't know what the plan is if I empty the account on a downswing.  I really dislike having to pay 3% to deposit, and if there is only a couple of days left I guess I'll just call it a day. 

Maybe I should have said "not many" rather than "not any", I'll grant you that.

Some of your reply I don't quite understand. They can make 30% on Winamax, & 10% elsewhere? Well they will all migrate to another site, surely, & the status quo will remain intact?

The final sentence? Well I have to be a little guarded, but the whole matter of these various sites no longer being available has been on the discussion menu, obv. We should remember, though, in your case you mention MTT's on Winamax first & foremost, & how UK facing sites should address the Winamax "opportunity". It's a watch this space thing really. They all have plans to soak up some of the traffic, obviously. Not that there are many UK facing sites, of course. 

For the record, Online Poker generally is divided into 3 "slices" of revenue, being Cash, MTT & SNG's. There is very little (in total revenue/Margin) between MTT's & SNG's, SNG's perhaps just shade it. Add the 2 together though (revenue from MTT's & SNG's) and it does not add up to total cash margin/revenue, in fact it is barely half of cash margin. Broadly, it is 17.5%, 17.5%, 65%, give or take a few %.   

All the noise is made by the crash-bang wallop MTT's, oooh look at that car crash, but the money mainly comes from cash games. MTT's for show, cash for dough, you might say.   

Great change lies ahead, but I don't see too many nails in coffins, personally, providing it is understood how important recreationals are to the whole scheme of thinhgs.

I'll probably play a whole 3 or 4 tournaments then, if I've got 2 more weekends :D



I probably haven't got enough miles to get me a McDonalds, but I'll have a look and see if I've got anything due.

It will def suit the sites as more of the deposits getting greater churn (therefore the site keeps a bigger % of it from rake) albeit of a much smaller overall amount in cash terms.

I realise it doesn't make much difference overall to the sites, just does at apersonal level.

I am guessing I make roughly 20% more on the French sites in ROI than I do on Stars.  It is had to be exact because of volatility.  In addition my average buy on the French sites (Winamax notably) is higher.  So I play an MTTon Winamax I might make 10 or 15 Euros each time in the long run.  If I play one on Stars I might make $2 a time long run.  Though I can substitute one site for the other, the difference in my bottom line is very significant.

I would add that I can't simply play similar tournaments on Stars or elsewhere.  ipoker has very good (ie bad) structures that mean that you can be up until 4am to make not very much.    Stars volatility is much higher due to the bigger fiels, and on Shy there aren't that many tournaments. 

This all makes a big difference to me, but sure the sites will go on.  I am sure my schedule will become much more heavily weighted to O8.

Looks like I found a job at the perfect time.  Ran good.

This really sucks. Winamax is pretty much the only site I have ever won one over the last 5 years :(

Since I have a Spanish address and bank account now, would I be able to reapply?

With the Spanish regulations you would only be able to play on winamax.es if there is such a thing

I've seen regs playing winamax.fr on their phones/ipads in the casino in barca?

Not 100% but I'm pretty sure that that spanish regulation is the same as the french regulations and you're not allowed to play on non-licenced sites. It may just be that they have so few players trying to play on french sites illegally from spain that they didn't bother to spend the time and resources on prevention

Maybe the software just thinks you in France when you are in Barcelona?  It isn't that far away.  It cold just be the internet provider in the Casino?  Maybe people are just knowingly breaking the law.

From 2 plus 2

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/official-winamax-poker-support-feedback-1318637/index3.html (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/28/internet-poker/official-winamax-poker-support-feedback-1318637/index3.html)

Originally Posted by Rise of The Icarus  View Post
Thanks Dave for your reply, but in all honesty you circled around my questions and ended up not answering any of my doubts. So let me ask the questions I need an answer for more clearly:

1) Is Winamax.fr open to Spanish players?

2) Is Spain not included in the list of the "some exceptions" that you say exist within the EU?

3) Why Winamax.fr is not offering its services in Italy?

I am quite excited to add Winamax.fr to the sites I currently play on, thus I would appreciate if you could specifically answer each of the questions above as this would clarify which is the situation I am/may be facing.

Thanks again for your help in advance!
Hi there,

I don't really see what more I could say to be more explicit.

Our licence in France permits us to accept players from anywhere in the EU. However, there are certain countries which have similar laws to France which prevents players from those countries playing on our site.

We operate our site according to the rules set out by our regulator in France. While we do try our best to keep up with the laws in all other countries, it is also down to the players themselves to ensure that they are following the laws of their country of residence.

So as I said in my previous reply, if the law in Spain says that you may not play on a site that does not have a Spanish licence, then you should not play on Winamax.

I hope this is clear enough for you

OK thanks guys. They're basically saying it's your responsibility to check, they are not going to do anything about it if you play, but it could be against the law.

Please be careful Alex.

Remember, the key moment is when you come to withdraw. They may be happy to turn a blind eye whilst it is going on, but less so when it comes to paying to a non-compliant (not registered in France?) player.

I also read on 2+2 (no idea if true) that those responsible for primarily policing this are the Staff & Directors of the Company, & they (potentially) face prison sentences for breaking these new laws.

It'd be pretty bad if you binked big & then found you could not withdraw the money. GG you if you try taking THAT to court, too. Winamax already stated that the players have a responsibility to comply. That's code for fyl if we catch you & you try to withdraw Mr Rosbif.

I'm just guessing on all this, but do please be careful, I worry about you, as you are so young & sweet. Mitch, of course, is big enough & some may say ugly enough to look after himself.

Stars staying

http://www.pokerstars.com/uk-migration/

Due to new regulations, all gaming services available to players in the United Kingdom must be licensed in the UK. As a result, all PokerStars players in the UK will be required to move their accounts to PokerStars UK and download an updated desktop client and/or mobile app to continue using the service.

Your log-in details, account balance and history will NOT be affected by the change, and you will still be able to enjoy our complete range of games with players from around the world.

The new PokerStars UK client will be available from 00:01 BST on October 1. To move your account, simply launch the software as usual from your PC or Mac, log-in and follow the on-screen prompts. The process is quick and straightforward, and will usually take under a minute to complete. Players using mobile devices will need to move their accounts as described above, then download the new app for free from the App Store (for iOS users) or from the PokerStars mobile site (for Android users).

Q.Will my VIP Club rewards be affected?
A.
VIP Club rewards for PokerStars UK will be the same as on PokerStars.com for the remainder of 2014. Rewards will be reduced slightly for 2015; more information will be available at a later date.

More pay cuts for next year.  So close to Supernova too.

....which is their method of passing on or defraying part of the new tax burden all sites will face.

It has to be paid, so one way & another, the players are going to have to contribute.

This seems a reasonable way of doing it, imo, don't think a soul can complain, though of course it depends "how much" I suppose. 

don't think a soul can complain


I left that in deliberately, so as to provide some amusement down the line. Poker players not complaining? What was I thinking?

Typically what juice do the brokers charge? I presume its legal? Got a link?

i was talking to a guy at 365 and he has a sbo account and he said they have an app to get round the problem with them.  Not sure on the details but he showed me it briefly seemed to look legit.

Very surprised a bigger deal hasn't been made regarding the cuts to the VIP club next year. Terrible news.

With hungary potentially going the same way, god knows where we will be left with in 18 months.

Sad, sad times.
#exitstrategy?

Those who took the Unders for 12 hours lost.

Easy money

They have applied for a license and that allows them to continue to operate, the grey/illegal market is still an issue.

I've read a little about bitcoin sites and peer to peer models for poker on 2+2. Surely this kind of legislation is likely to give huge impetus for players to develop a viable alternative along these lines and completely bypass local laws?

There are plenty of "ways round" the new legislation.  But either you will be breaking the terms and conditions of a legitimate company and risking getting free-rolled or using a company that ignores the law and risking your funds with "criminals" or dodgy payment processors. 

Banks can be very capricious these days and if you are transferring money to or receiving money from an illegal site, you might find your account shut and your name on a blacklist.

I doubt that many people have an edge with unlicensed operators (that doesn't exist with licensed ones) that justifies the risk, but obv if they do gl.

If people's livelihood is getting damaged, why wouldn't they complain?  In life I do try and not get angry about things I can't control, but implying that it is bad to even complain about it seems a little harsh.  It isn't like this is just a minor bad beat at the end of a +10k session. 

I just got the email from Stars.fr confirming UK players won't have access from October 1st.

I noticed one line in the last paragraph which will have a big effect, I reckon.

"The PokerStars UK site will continue to share all games and player pools with the PokerStars.com site. Due to UK regulations, the auto rebuy feature will not be available on the UK site for either cash games or tournaments. All other software features and game experiences will remain the same."

I play on 4'sites

Winamax - gone in 1 week
Stars.fr gone in one week
Party - gone on one week
Pokerstars - rake reductions and basic features being removed (if Ipoker didn't have these options people would be calling it software from the dark ages)

Of course we should be unhappy/very worried these changes in theory will cost a lot of us tens of thousands of dollars.

If you got a message one morning saying you will be gocingn a pay cut and somebody tried to tell you you shouldn't be unhappy it would be weird right?

I'm seriously having to change my whole residency and plan a life in a country I wouldn't have wanted to be in otherwise and probably will never live in he uk for as long as I want to play poker. These changes are very big and scary.

Dear pleno1,

Due to new regulations, all gaming services available to players in the UK must be licensed in the UK.

From 00:01 BST on October 1, playing on the PokerStars.fr site , or any other licence except PokerStars UK, will no longer be possible within the UK. UK-based players using the .FR client will need to cashout their funds in the usual way - there is no risk for you to lose your funds, but any balance on the .FR client must be withdrawn to your registered bank account.

From the 1st of October, assets including play money balances, Real Money tickets, T-Money, VIP Status and FPPs will be migrated from your .FR account to your .UK account by contacting support@pokerstars.fr with your PokerStars UK User ID. Pending bonuses will be re-credited if possible, or paid out on a pro rata basis. Your PokerStars.fr VIP status will also be applied if it is an upgrade.

Make sure you claim any earned VIP Stellar Rewards and Milestone Cash Credits from the VIP Store in the PokerStars.fr client prior to 00:01 BST on October 1. Additionally we will provide credits to many players for partial progress toward their next Stellar Reward or Milestone Cash Credit. All credits will be made by October 3 and will be accompanied by an email to the credited player.

If you have a PokerStars .COM account, you will also be required to move it to PokerStars UK. The process will be quick and straightforward, and you’ll be automatically prompted to do so when you log-in after September 30. Players using PokerStars Mobile will need to download the new UK-specific apps from the App Store or PokerStars Mobile site.

The PokerStars UK site will continue to share all games and player pools with the PokerStars.com site. Due to UK regulations, the auto rebuy feature will not be available on the UK site for either cash games or tournaments. All other software features and game experiences will remain the same.




The full email.

It's now going to be extremely hard to be a professional mtt player. Many will quit now or they will play on stars and not be able to win.

If you look at some of the top mtt players they haven't been able to win on pokerstara for years. I assume they have made money on the other sites. Playing only pokerstars mtt fields will see many people go broke, at least with the French sites it was a little lower variance.

Even on Sundays for example people schedules are going to be way less.

Let's say a hsmtt guy plays

.fr

250 6m
100 nos
300 he
100 nost
50 wu

Party

500
215
100

Winamax

100
100
100
300
50

1450 euros + 800 dollars

With series as well were looking at perhaps 2500 dollars/Sunday

If they have 30% roi it means they will lose 800 every Sunday. This would be around $30,000 a year just from Sundays.

Let's say they lose 400 on a week day and play 2 week days (lazy grinders ftw) that's an extra $30k a year

So these changes for a hsmtt guy will lose them around $60k a year plus a lot of opportunity cost and helping with variance.

Mass migration to Ireland on the cards for UK poker pros?

is Party going too?  I was thinking maybe I'd give that a go.  I haven't heard anything from Full Tilt either.

I looked at my screen last night, I had 11 tables up, 8 were on the French sites.  All I had on Stars was a $100 game and a couple of small ones.  I probably had near 1K Euros of buyins on the French sites.

No hope for a triple crown now either. :(

i guess people can jointly buy property abroad and use that as their main address on stars and then still access all of the other sites just fine and play on .com instead of .uk

Yeh more info on Party if anyone has it of them leaving please? Tried to find some myself and failed as i am a noob.

I thought it is more on the ip address and where you are literally playing from in terms of rule breaking? So if i am in the UK i need to abide by those rules despite having property elsewhere?

no im 99% sure its just where you're registered.

So these changes affect players with UK passports / driving licenses, NOT players living in the UK? So where you live is irrelevant, it's your nationality?
Can someone confirm

That can't be right, the email says players in the UK.  The law can only apply in the UK, the Government can't set the laws in Hungary or Spain, surely??

Isn't that easy enough to arrange for everyone though? What's stopping people getting PO boxes (or equivalent) in another country?

The UK regulations only apply to accounts registered in the UK

There are two separate laws.  

The tax is from revenue generated in the UK and an account with a UK address is the relevant issue.  If you go on holiday and play as a UK player they will still pay tax on that play.  If someone from France comes over here for a live tourny and logs on to .fr, they won't look for tax from that.

The licensing requirement is aimed at sites operating in the UK market - they need a license.  They should block the .fr individual above, but if he slips through the net its unlikely that anyone will do anything on the UKGC side.  However, Stars has recently been very strict over use of vpns etc and total bankroll confiscation is an option if they think that premeditated subterfuge is being used to get round restrictions.

You will need bank statements/utility bills.  And as I pointed out above - the uk address is for the tax, if you play from the uk the site has to have a uk license.

Don't think Party are going, was under impression they successfully applied for a licence?

The French sites obv a big loss, playing on stars.uk should be no different though assuming the cuts to rakeback aren't too drastic.

At the moment I believe its as easy as sending stars a photo of a lease for an overseas address with your name on it to change your location, thing is getting your stars account banned especially for MTT players is pretty much gg poker. In Europe where you're not more than a few hundred miles from somewhere you can play freely it doesn't really make any sense to play on .fr illegally from the UK

I read on 2 plus 2 that the cut for supernova in other similar countries was only about 10%, so you get 33% instead of 37% rakeback.  So it isn't as bad as I feared.  

Thanks for clarifying guys.

So no poker site closures aside from the french facing ones?

A few skins will prob go I'd think.  But it's difficult to know what's going on - you have to look up ElectraWorks Limited to find Party.  So although Rational is there for Stars, it looks like firms are using separate companies for UK licensing (which seems a bit odd as they wouldn't pay any tax on a Brazilian playing on the UK license).  I can only imagine that its to get around the grey market issue. 

So if I was to rent a property in France, get a French bank account and utility bill and say to winamax / .fr "hey I live in France now" , I would be allowed to play on their sites? Even tho my passport is british I and I opened my account in the UK?

Just trying to work out how to get round it. And it seems every question is not really answered in a way that furthers my understanding much!

Def - if you live in France you can play on .fr  

edit - in fact you MUST play on .fr

Sorry for furthering more, but what if you have a property, in say, Ireland, that you rent and pay a utility bill and so on, but you effectively do not live there, and still stay in your second residence in the UK. Would you be free to play on the French sites all year round from the UK?

Of course you have changed all of the addresses on the poker sites to your residence in Ireland.

Might just run that by the wife.  Fancy selling the house and moving the kids to French schools so I can play poker withe French people.  Sure will go down well.  She gets grouchy about me climbing the stairs to play poker.

Would love to be young enough to take that step or go to Barcelona to play.  I really can't see any reason why you can't just prove residence in France and play.  But having said that companies effectively getting double taxed for operating in France and selling to UK customers wouldn't be something I'd expect either. 

To Ant040689

If we start from the position that you are an Irish stars player.  So from Ireland (at the moment - I believe they have plans as well) you can play .com and .fr.

So you come over to the UK and Stars pick this up and have a problem.  As an apparent Irish resident you won't be eligible to the UK tax, so you won't play on .uk, but the big question is how have stars organised their corporate affairs.  If I had to put money on it, I'd guess that .uk is a separate company and effectively a skin of .com and the UKGC license only applies to that .uk skin.  If that is the case, then .com .fr simply won't have a license to provide poker in the UK, so they won't allow you to play. 

Bleurgh to Ireland also having plans on legislation.

Ty for the explanation. Seems it's best to let the dust settle before seeing whats what.

At the moment yeah that would be fine, but stars is pretty lax on how much time you actually spend in the country that your account is registered from.

One problem that may come up is verification for withdrawls etc, sites can ask for that whenever but most need a utility bill/bank statement that is dated in the last 3 months so you need to be able to pick up post etc from the address that your account is registered to.

The UK players in Budapest have a sweat with the new regulations here. Some sites are blocked already here (mainly UK bookies) but more are being added to the list including Pokerstars, effective in just over a week. Best case scenario the sites aren't blocked and we can all get Hungarian bank accounts and register our accounts in Hungary, worst case it all gets blocked and we're looking for a new city for next summer.

will real money transfers be effected?

Can't see why they would be. All of these moves are to make it easy for the UKGC to see stars' UK activities and tax them, but its a tax on the rake box not on the players so money leaving and entering the system shouldn't be affected. They mentioned the removal of auto rebuy in the press release, I'd imagine if there were changes to something as big as player transfers that would have been in the press release, or at least some allusion to it

you cant for example transfer to players on stars.bg/be etc afaik

Anyone who currently makes a living from online poker really needs an exit strategy - their income stream is too vulnerable to external events.

I am only guessing, I have no idea, but I think it highly unlikely the UK version will allow money transfers "cross-juristiction".

Whilst we all know that, for the most part, these Transfers are legit, the GC would be concerned at the possibilities it gives to potential money-laundering. Two way street, that, the GC would be equally concerned whether that dirty money was inbound or outbound, as they have no traceability.

However, I have no info on that at all, it's just a pure guess. 

I believe that will have to disappear on ALL sites which obtain the new UK Licences. Auto Top Up, too, I would assume.

I'm not too bothered in some ways that some of the softer sites are pulling out. I've made $10k on pokerstars.fr (my secondary site) in the past 12 months but it doesn't mean I'm going to make $10k less. It just means I have to find new sites to play on. FTP isn't too bad for a mid stakes grinder and tbh pokerstars.com has the best variety of tournaments. Admittedly pokerstars.com is the toughest site out there but it's where I make the majority of my money. If other poker players have a problem with these french sites closing down as well as some others and are worried about making a living then tough, I have no sympathy towards them. Poker has gotten tougher as each year has passed and I've endured a really tough couple of years going broke outside of poker and struggling to climb the ladder again. I'm all for it getting tougher for some time and it weening some of the regs out as there are a lot of very average regs hanging around scraping a living and even without them the game would be easier.

It's never going to get easier in the long run so if you aren't cut out for poker then find an exit plan.

Anyone know if Matchbook have a licence?

Is there a list of which sites are "approved" somewhere?

Yes, sort of, the list of licence holders, or those who have applied, is here....


https://secure.gamblingcommission.gov.uk/gccustomweb/PublicRegister/PRSearch.aspx

However, you need the name of the Holding Company, so "Matchbook" may be listed under another name.

You big softie. Tell us what you REALLY think.

Implementation delayed until November 1st

http://pokerfu.se/qc3t

btw poker players had better hope this fails, as the result might be ring-fencing.  A judicial challenge of an Act of Parliament can only be successful on the grounds that EU law has been breached and apparently the French and Spanish ring fencing setups don't. 

Oops I linked to the wrong article, my bad:

http://pokerfuse.com/news/law-and-regulation/25825-uk-gambling-act-postponed-until-november/

decent news.

I can 100% assure you that it isn't decent news for poker.  The tax isn't going away and the licensing isn't going away.  If the law has to be amended ring-fencing might be the outcome.

and so it begins..

edit:misread your post.

having an extra month on these sites is very good news at first glance.

A stay of execution @ Pinnacle.





An important update to the notice for British account holders












Dear Tony,

Due to a one month postponement of the Gambling (Licensing & Advertising) Act, Pinnacle Sports can offer our services to you, as a resident of Great Britain, until October 31st, 2014. We apologise for any confusion this causes but the circumstances are entirely outside of our control.

What will happen?
•All your account options other than withdrawal will be blocked on October 31st, 2014
•Any of your bets placed up to and including October 31st, 2014 will be honoured.
•All standard withdrawal rules and fees will apply until 31st October 2014.
•After October 31st, 2014 you will be able to login and withdraw any outstanding balance free of charge.

Should the circumstances around regulation change again, we will continue to keep you informed.
 

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/11030550_C9CF07D9B9

rip .fr

Does anybody know for sure if Winamax and .fr will be open in a couople of days?

It woudl be good to know if we can play past midnight too.  I guess there is a danger you get to the final table at midnight and get discoed and can't get back in.  Would be some rub.

Email from full tilt yesterday confirmed business as usual until november 1st, I'm assuming the same can be said for .fr but if you email stars.com and put URGENT in the title and it comes from a supernova/SNE they usually get back to you within 10 minutes if its a simple yes/no answer

I got a reply from stars.fr pretty quickly.  It is ok to carry on playing there until 1 November.  Still waiting on Winamax.

And now have confirmation it is ok to carry on playing on Winamax for another month.  I am on the phone, but can cut and paste later if anybody is interested. 

Vive la France!

http://calvinayre.com/2014/10/03/poker/the-uk-gambling-commission-clarifies-auto-top-up-and-rebuy-regulation-and-its-good-news-for-grinders/

The legal challenge to PoC by has failed, after the judge ruled in favour of the UK Government. (source EGR).

The new Licensing regime will therefore commence in 3 weeks time, on November 1st.

Away from the UK, PKR have now pulled out of Italy (citing "difficult trading conditions") & Ladbrokes have withdrawn, for Regulatory reasons, from one of their former strongholds, Norway, in addition to several other jurisdictions. 

'Stars, as already reported, have withdrawn from over 20 different countries, again for Regulatory reasons.

Standard euphemism for 'no players'.

Seems like the legislation could have been a hell of a lot worse compared to the segregation and/or tax problems of other countries.

As I actually hardly spend any time in the UK I am still considering officially relocating to maintain the higher rewards on Stars and to get access to the French sites back again. Not sure if the hassle or other problems would be worth it

Winamax seemed to let me in ok this morning...

Some sites - not suggesting this is the case here - are not making the changes until Monday.

The GC have, sensibly, accepted that a Saturday is a really bad day to have to make wholesale changes, & especially - in every case for UK facing sites - get players to formally acknowledge the new T & C's, so the GC have allowed the date to move back to Monday 3rd November.

Please don't take this as gospel, but I know it to be true in the case of numerous sites.   

Amazingly, Unibet Customers will face a 2 hour scheduled site closure @ 7am on Monday to allow the changes to be made. Not sure I understand why, as all the necessary changes can be pre-prepared, & then the cat-flop opened when the time comes, but no doubt there is good reason.

Got an email from fr saying it was the 3rd too. Assume winamax must be the same.