blonde poker forum

this is my 7th table in under an hour
most tables are seeing the bigger stacks are piling on pressure with all shoves any time a smaller stack raises preflop
here we have been protected from a shove by one of the bigger stacks (on table) has flatted the raise
so flatting is a reasonable play we dont really want to be getting into a big pot till we see the texture of the board
on the flop we have draws to nut low and nut flush

how do we play do we bet the flop can we continue on the turn?

PokerStars Hand #126856884346: Tournament #1067034858, $12.30+$12.25+$2.45 USD Omaha Hi/Lo No Limit - Level IX (100/200) - 2014/12/14 19:35:42 WET [2014/12/14 14:35:42 ET]
Table '1067034858 9' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: BeltBuster (967 in chips)
Seat 2: Ambri 81 (6424 in chips)
Seat 3: nutronstarr (10519 in chips)
Seat 4: lemberg1715 (2475 in chips)
Seat 5: Ironside (6501 in chips)
Seat 6: Alfons777999 (8528 in chips)
Seat 7: kummherdo (10445 in chips)
Seat 8: rock23 (2809 in chips)
Seat 9: d3vd3v (4770 in chips)
BeltBuster: posts the ante 25
Ambri 81: posts the ante 25
nutronstarr: posts the ante 25
lemberg1715: posts the ante 25
Ironside: posts the ante 25
Alfons777999: posts the ante 25
kummherdo: posts the ante 25
rock23: posts the ante 25
d3vd3v: posts the ante 25
d3vd3v: posts small blind 100
BeltBuster: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [Ah 5d 2c 5h]
Ambri 81: raises 200 to 400
nutronstarr: calls 400
lemberg1715: folds
Ironside: calls 400
Alfons777999: calls 400
kummherdo: folds
rock23: folds
d3vd3v: folds
BeltBuster: folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 8h Td]
Ambri 81: bets 400
nutronstarr: calls 400
Ironside: calls 400
Alfons777999: calls 400
*** TURN *** [3h 8h Td] [Kc]
Ambri 81: bets 3725
nutronstarr: raises 5969 to 9694 and is all-in
Ironside:

Raise flop/fold now would be my guess

I'd be tempted to raise/gii otf too, certainly +ev. I'd fold the turn as played although it is impossible to answer without knowing the bounty of Ambri.

get it in on flop or raise commit

Think shoving pre is likely good too, but fold where you are.

Probably raise that flop too. 

ambri bounty was just $12.50 they hadnt taken any previously

the reason i didnt raise the flop was for the high i needed to make a flush and for the low i could be in there with 1 or 2 other people with A2
apart from the flush i dont have any other high outs hitting a 5 and i could still miss on the high so calling flop gave me pot control

doobs you say getting it in pre is a good thing but A255 1 suit is worse than A22x 1 suit for getting in pre IMHO and all too often
you see guys getting it in with A22x busting out as they really dont have high outs and low only comes 40% of time
atleast with A22x it is less likely they have A2 in there hand so if you make the nut low your not getting quartered as often

after the hand was over i looked at it and wondered if i should of been raising on the flop
i would of busted but in the long run it might have been more profitable play
just so happened this time i would of been facing nearly the worst possible outcome with
my flush outs reduced
as it happened in this hand there was 3 of us drawing to the flush 2 too the straight and 2 of us to the low


maybe i am just over thinking it and with 30 bigs i should be committing to this hand 4 way i know i would be heads up


Ironside: folds
Alfons777999: calls 7703 and is all-in
Ambri 81: calls 1874 and is all-in
Uncalled bet (1991) returned to nutronstarr
*** RIVER *** [3h 8h Td Kc] [3s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
nutronstarr: shows [9d Jh Qh 2s] (HI: a pair of Threes)
Alfons777999: shows [Ac 2h Kh Jc] (HI: two pair, Kings and Threes)
Alfons777999 collected 4208 from side pot
Ambri 81: shows [Js Qd Ad 9c] (HI: a pair of Threes)
Alfons777999 collected 20522 from main pot
No low hand qualified
Alfons777999 wins $6.13 for eliminating Ambri 81 and their own bounty increases by $6.12 to $30.61
Ambri 81 finished the tournament in 114th place
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 24730 Main pot 20522. Side pot 4208. | Rake 0
Board [3h 8h Td Kc 3s]
Seat 1: BeltBuster (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Ambri 81 showed [Js Qd Ad 9c] and lost with HI: a pair of Threes
Seat 3: nutronstarr showed [9d Jh Qh 2s] and lost with HI: a pair of Threes
Seat 4: lemberg1715 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Ironside folded on the Turn
Seat 6: Alfons777999 showed [Ac 2h Kh Jc] and won (24730) with HI: two pair, Kings and Threes
Seat 7: kummherdo folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: rock23 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: d3vd3v (small blind) folded before Flop

If you are playing this hand there is a chance you get quartered anyway.  You aren't ever folding the nut low and no one else is.

Shoving pre means you get a lot of those A2s to fold.  You have a pair, a suited ace, an extra wheel card and a deuce.  Ticks all the boxes in a hyper.

Not saying I would get it in, but with 1k+ in the middle and 6 back, it doesn't look like it can be bad to me.  As it is you get OR to fold and AK2 likely calls and gets there.   Don't think that makes it bad though.  

Would prefer A255 to A225, am on phone so can't test it, but puts you ahead of stuff like A23K, A23q and a24k that are possible calling hands for your opponents.

i doubt we get too many folds from a2 pre anyway in a $15

Why not?  People aren't all bonkers down there. 

I have a little "rough & ready" hand value chart which I refer to from time to time to review my ranges.

A255 is some way ahead of A225, & gives us far more ways of getting at least something back.

As it happens, the guy who won the hand had, in my view, by far the best combo hand, A-2-paint-paint is what we should be really looking to gii with imo.

It turns out I can use pro poker tools on my phone.  A255 beats a2**, where as A22* is 47/53 as I expected. 

A255 also is 37% vs A2** and A2**.  If you add in AA** to their ranges then you drop to 33%.  But I am starting to rule out AA** if we have two people in already and we are in EP. 

A255 also beats A2 paint paint.  I think this is a plo8/nlo8 difference though.  I'd be happy playing the paint paint hand through the streets but a2 pair pair plays reasonably well if you just smash it in pre. 

Doesn't a225 do better multiway because we don't chop the low as often and can get half of the pot 3 ways more often than when we have a552?

I'd be playing this very aggressively on the flop.

I am used to Hypers so am pretty good on all in equity.  I'd fold A225 a lot more than A255 in Hypers.  I can't see me folding the latter much at all, but definitely folding the former early on.  I'd be pretty surprised if I got more than one caller here if I shoved pre, and a lot if the time it is just getting through.

Playing the streets is different, and you may have a point.  If I was sat here with A225 and had an early position raiser and a caller, wouldn't I be assuming one had A2 anyway?  And if we are less likely to be facing A2, we are more likely to be facing AAxy.  Dunno,  would probably still hate A225 in this spot.  

Quite possibly, yes, I'm not familiar with NLO8 or NLO8 ranges.

If I were in a big MTT, late stages, & found A-2-paint-paint (especially if one is a King) I'll happily get it in. A-2-5-5 I'd be far less confident. More scoop chances I fancy, though I don't have any maths evidence to back that up. 

Not that it makes much of a difference but this is a $27.50,

Doors this isnt a hyper in fact it was quite a pleasant structure , I didn't have to shove light on my way through it

another thing to consider is bounties are only paid to the Hi part i would of assumed that it was split to the lo share too