blonde poker forum

What do blonde's think about the issue..

http://news.sky.com/story/1486774/gay-cake-bakery-guilty-of-discrimination.

My initial thought was that it was a bit harsh on the bakery.

The more I read about the case and it's obvious ramifications if the bakery won then
I'm not so sure.

Confused, because as a business I would want to make the choice who to engage with in a transaction
and not be forced to do it by the State.

As a bookmaker you can bar people from betting for the most paltry of reasons but I suppose as long
as it's not discriminatory your fine.

I do feel sorry for the bakery because they held a particular religious belief , it's their business and they ,
in principle , should be allowed to only offer their services to whoever they want.

On the other hand , if everyone did what the bakery did where would they get a cake from :-)

Sitting on the fence on this one unless someone can persuade me otherwise.

Where's Woodsey when you need him ?  ;D

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/jd-wetherspoon-ordered-to-pay-24000-in-damages-after-judge-rules-staff-denied-gypsies-and-travellers-entry-10258848.html

Similar to this?

I do feel sorry for the bakery because they held a particular religious belief

I know what you mean.

My Woodsey random quote generator produced the following

"Why doesn't one of the two gentlemen find himself a good wife who can bake the cake for him?"

great decision.

as for the lolworthy guy saying 'you can't have a hierarchy of rights - this decision puts gay rights above those of religious freedoms' then my answer would be 'of course you can. believe in whatever fairytale you like, but don't discriminate against people, bellend'

If they strongly disagree with it then fine, but there are ways of going about it : 'look lads, that's not really something we can support, but Bakery X down the road would definitely make it for you'

Presumably the couple would rather not serve Catholics either.

Before I read the story was wondering how anyone could defend the bakers - sounded like clear discrimination.

After reading it, not so sure. Don't think they refused to serve the customers, just didn't want to put the design on the cake that went against their beliefs.
If the bakers were strongly pro animal rights, and someone wanted a 'Support Fox Hunting' cake. then I wouldn't think it's out of order to politely refuse.

Yeah I suppose it is.

It is discriminatory but I can understand to an extent why these situations occur.

I remember trying to get into nightclubs with a group of lads and you had no chance.

You had to all split up and find a couple of girls to escort you in or bugger off home.

Don't know if that is still the case nowadays.

Now I know your going to say that's not a relevant example but the point I am clumsily
trying to make is that they are just trying to protect their business from a perceived danger.

I hear all the arguments about stereotyping people and being discriminatory and, having not
been on that side of the fence it's hard to appreciate that feeling of being discriminated against.

Just think it's a fine line between doing business how you want to and with whom and being
discriminatory.

The group included a police inspector , barrister and a priest according to the report.

8 got damages , 10 other claims dismissed.

As I said , its a fine line.

I suppose the counter argument is should cake shops ran by Gay people be forced to make a 'Ban Gay marriage' cake?

As much as I hate homophobia and am an not a big fan of religion either, I believe that every business has the right to refuse service to whoever they want. The free market will sort them out when they start turning down too many customers and get all the negativite press for being bigots.

Yeah the free market sorted out apartheid.

These issues aren't difficult - there is a law prohibiting discrimination against certain classes.  Simply ask whether your actions could be considered discrimination, if the answer might be yes, then don't do it.

What is stopping away football fans from demanding to enter a public house with security and a sign saying 'home fans only' then?  Can away fans take the public house to court for refusing non entry?

You win today's "strawman argument" prize!


clue: there isn't a law specifically protecting foxhunters from discrimination for being foxhunters

ffs "away fans" aren't a protected class either

But religion is a protected class also. You could make the argument that the cake makers are the discriminated ones by being forced to create something that is strongly against their beliefs.

Maybe take a quiet five doubleup?

The problem with trying to equate freedom of religious expression and freedom of sexuality is that religion is something that you choose to participate in whereas sexuality, colour of skin, disabilities etc are not.

That is exactly my point.  Why should law abiding football fans not be allowed to enter a pub because of what team they support any more or less than someone who CHOOSES to follow a religion like the football fan CHOOSES to follow their team. 

lol Mark sometimes you do try a little too hard to be contrarian

You know exactly why travelling fans aren't allowed to get tanked up in pubs full of home supporters

They didn't refuse because the customer was gay. They refused because they were asked to take a positive action in support of something they didn't support.

Typical response by the DUP MLA. 

I'm not so sure I agree with the judgement to be honest, sexual orientation like disibility is protected under the equalities act, to me the bakers  haven't refused to take the custom all they have done is refuse to share the message they didn't agree wth, I don't see that as discriminatory. 

I think this could have been handled better. 

Sure there was a case a few years back were a guy who owned a B&B refused to let a gay couple stay at his residence.  This was more discriminatory than refusing to ice a cake with a partcular message. 

I find it hard to believe they had no idea of the sexual orientation of the fella asking for a gay rights slogan on a cake.   Yet they are today claiming that is the case.  Given I find that so hard to believe, I am struggling to accept their word that it was just the message that caused them to refuse custom.  I haven't read the judgement, but assume the judge hasn't accepted that this action was only because of the slogan.  

This is the bakery in question, I believe.



(http://www.newsletter.co.uk/webimage/1.6400196.1415265518!/image/3769699853.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/3769699853.jpg)

Haven't you got a view on it Tony ? ;ifm;

They going to add a small star after that moto?

*only applies to god fearing hetrosexuals

I agree with your logic and that of DMorgan in this thread.  However, I think using "fairytale" for people who believe in religion isn't very nice either.  Religion is important to lots of people over the globe and I don't think you need to belittle their faith to make your point.

Probably best if the Hitch explains why it's OK....

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2011/12/the-20-best-christopher-hitchens-quotes/ (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/unreasonablefaith/2011/12/the-20-best-christopher-hitchens-quotes/)

What's okay?    Of course it's fine to not agree with religion and think that those who have faith are misguided.  My point is I don't see the point of belittling people's faith.  Seems a simple enough concept.  If Islamic guys (for example) want to pray several times a day I don't see why you would want to poke fun at them.

And while you're at it you might as well tell us where you stand on gay adoption too.

 ;ifm;

Chuck in Thatcher, the Royals, who you voted for, your favourite ever interview and whether you prefer iPhones to Android while your at it please.

:D

This has gotta be up there with the best

YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcSuQf4RZWs

disagree. it's a divisive thing and it deserves to be known as such. People can believe in what they want, but that save them from being fools.

I don't believe in God, but I truly wish I did, and I envy those who do.

fyp

I could learn to bake cakes.

They did refuse to serve the customers though - they wouldn't do as asked.


Erm, a positive action? From what I can see they was just asked to bake a cake with a slogan on it, not join in with their stance, etc.

It's also curious to know what the other employees think.

I think the decision is correct & why couldn't the bakery instead just turn round and refuse the custom, instead of casting opinion based on their beliefs?

It's complete and utter stupidity from the business and I personally do hope it affects them hugely.

So what if you owned the bakery and someone wanted white supremacy slogan on their cake?

I think there's a lot of people intentionally missing the point or playing devil's advocate.

Don't be a dick to people who are different to you, just because they are different to you.
It's that simple.

If the cake shop was run by a gay atheist and a Christian customer ordered a cake with "Jesus is Lord" on it, not making the cake would be wrong.
If the cake ordered was to say "God Hates Fags" then it's fine to refuse.

Thank you Bookiebasher for bringing this to my attention. Have put in a little extra work using google and thanks to The Telegraph I  am now fully up to speed on controversial cakes:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/10953473/Gay-cake-row-other-famous-controversial-cakes.html

You could possibly learn to believe in a God.  Start going to church regularly and you may get sucked in enjoy it and see the light

While I completly agree with your sentiment and share the same viewpoint, we are talking about the law here. The law both protects certain groups from discrimination and it allows people to be complete dicks at times.

I believe in cakes. I can explain cakes. I can prove to myself that cakes exist.

Was there not a time before cake when you just blindly believed in their existence and called it faith?

Can you explain it to the rest of your family though as they will be unaware of their existence I would expect?

They believe they exist, they just have no proof.

Don't you share your cake?

If you wait for a cake to be given to you so you will be happy, then you will be happy when someone gives you a cake. But if you buy a cake for yourself you will be happy sooner.


Do I share cake? Yes, I share other people's cake.

I don't want to offend anyone's religious beliefs or their views on gay marriage, I mean this with the greatest respect, but I've always been afraid to say it because of political correctness.

I fucking love cake.

Carrot Cake

Lemon Drizzle Cake

Bakewell tart

Battenberg

Lemon Drizzle Cake, again

(https://bookishandawesome.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/cake-01.gif)

A big piece of Madeira and a mug of tea...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/20/gay-cake-ruling-equality-northern-ireland

Joshua Rozenberg gives his view. (former legal correspondent at the BBC)

Bakewell Tart! the clue's in the name. Pls stay on topic ffs.

Everything that's not a biscuit is cake.

Dont get me started on jaffa cakes

19625 posts and Silo Graham makes his first controversial one!

Welcome to the club Graham :)

This is a very interesting case. My immediate feeling is that nobody should be obliged to offer a service to anybody else so as much as I hate to say it feel the owners of the cake shop have been treated unfairly. Saying that I don't think religion should hold any sway in the country at all for me an important question is did they eventually make the cake?

If they made the cake, well they obviously don't really believe in their religion so refusing to do so in the first place was just basically discrimination and should be treated as such. If they refused too well as silly as it is they obviously do believe in their religion and sadly they have the fight to do that.