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Title: Rubbish play? Post by: ACE2M on January 30, 2006, 07:55:29 PM I don't like my play here but what do you think i should have done differently?
Matey boy was table shortstack not long ago and had been pushing every few hands and i was definately a bit woriied about his minimum raise utg. 13 players left. Do i fold pre flop? Do i push on the flop? if so how much? Having played it weakly do i fold to his all in? Hold'em No Limit - Level XVII (4000/8000) - 2006/01/30 - 12:35:43 (ET) Table '18846269 11' Seat #9 is the button Seat 1: CASHCON (102091 in chips) Seat 2: tommyk1 (168512 in chips) Seat 4: whitehot (66575 in chips) Seat 5: marapson (89295 in chips) Seat 7: JUKER 1 (86200 in chips) Seat 8: paulie187 (138186 in chips) Seat 9: loutre (112644 in chips) CASHCON: posts the ante 400 tommyk1: posts the ante 400 whitehot: posts the ante 400 marapson: posts the ante 400 JUKER 1: posts the ante 400 paulie187: posts the ante 400 loutre: posts the ante 400 CASHCON: posts small blind 4000 tommyk1: posts big blind 8000 *** HOLE CARDS *** Dealt to tommyk1 [7s 8s] whitehot: folds marapson: raises 8000 to 16000 JUKER 1: folds paulie187: folds loutre: folds CASHCON: folds tommyk1: calls 8000 *** FLOP *** [6d 2c 7c] tommyk1: checks marapson: bets 72895 and is all-in tommyk1: calls 72895 *** TURN *** [6d 2c 7c] [Qd] *** RIVER *** [6d 2c 7c Qd] [As] *** SHOW DOWN *** tommyk1: shows [7s 8s] (a pair of Sevens) marapson: shows [Kc Qh] (a pair of Queens) marapson collected 184590 from pot Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: NoflopsHomer on January 30, 2006, 08:02:09 PM I don't like your check on the flop. I'd make a pot-sized bet to show I'm willing to call him down. I always make notes on whether a player min-raises with hands like AA or KK, or more marginal ones.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: WellChief on January 30, 2006, 08:12:06 PM You trapped him and got your money in as 74% favourite, whats the problem with how you played the hand?
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: dan on January 30, 2006, 08:52:39 PM You trapped him and got your money in as 74% favourite, whats the problem with how you played the hand? the only problem with it is you gave him chance to outdraw you. if you bet the flop he cant really call. he tries to take the pot on the flop but gets lucky. Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: WellChief on January 30, 2006, 08:56:54 PM The thing is, he said the player was a bit wild. If you knew he had 2 overs, and you knew he'd go all in if you checked to him, but fold if you put him all in, which would you do? If its the latter then you're not playing to win. Someone's going to get this numpty's chips so you should be looking for good opportunities. This is one.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: totalise on January 30, 2006, 09:00:46 PM You trapped him and got your money in as 74% favourite, whats the problem with how you played the hand? the only problem with it is you gave him chance to outdraw you. if you bet the flop he cant really call. he tries to take the pot on the flop but gets lucky. you realise that this is great reasoning for checking, not betting. You want him to try and outdraw you, you want him to call/stack off. How do you expect to accumulate chips if you want to get him to fold when you are 75% or so to win? thats like going all in with AA, hopin to make 67 suited fold! Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: dan on January 30, 2006, 09:05:55 PM You trapped him and got your money in as 74% favourite, whats the problem with how you played the hand? the only problem with it is you gave him chance to outdraw you. if you bet the flop he cant really call. he tries to take the pot on the flop but gets lucky. you realise that this is great reasoning for checking, not betting. You want him to try and outdraw you, you want him to call/stack off. How do you expect to accumulate chips if you want to get him to fold when you are 75% or so to win? thats like going all in with AA, hopin to make 67 suited fold! AA is a little stronger than 78. with a marginal hand like this im quite happy to take the pot down there and then Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: WellChief on January 30, 2006, 09:08:35 PM What do you mean marginal hand? It's 75% against two overs. If the same player went all in against you preflop and showed you AQ (somehow), would you call with AK? You can't play the final stages of a multi-table being terrified of being outdrawn.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: Bongo on January 30, 2006, 09:10:36 PM Also by checking and calling you maximise your return over betting.
If you call his all in the chips go in when you're ahead as well as behind. If you bet it he'll only call with a better hand. Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: dan on January 30, 2006, 09:15:38 PM there is 39k in the pot, would you not be happy with that rather than risking 73k. Also after a min raise utg from the 2nd shortest stack at the table are you sure that your pair is good anyway. ( i know it was but im thinking overpair)
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: WellChief on January 30, 2006, 09:19:13 PM So are you betting into the flop or check-folding? Make up your mind. You cannot turn down edges like this at this stage!
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: Dubai on January 30, 2006, 09:23:41 PM Hang on someone raised preflop. They must have Aces or Kings.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: Dubai on January 30, 2006, 09:25:11 PM Especially with a 70k push into a 40k pot.
Has to be overpair. LOL Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: dan on January 30, 2006, 09:27:17 PM i would probably play it the same way after catching top pair with that hand i was just trying to offer a different point of view. i just dont think betting out is such a bad play. i was just saying that if you bet out you take it down there and then. i dont think check calling or betting out is right or wrong. what happens if you trap check and he checks behind you . the turn is the queen then you cant call anyway.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: dan on January 30, 2006, 09:29:49 PM Especially with a 70k push into a 40k pot. Has to be overpair. LOL how wouyld you play 1010 or JJ on that board? Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: Dubai on January 30, 2006, 09:32:45 PM Differently to you im guessing!
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: Dubai on January 30, 2006, 09:35:08 PM Pushing here with Jacks or Tens is just a truly dire play. I dont even want to express how bad it is.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: dan on January 30, 2006, 09:45:15 PM why do you think pushing with jacks or tens is so bad. the BB has called a min raise which he could do with any 2 cards because of the pot odds. he could have a straight draw or flush draw. if you bet the pot or just under pot with your pair and give him odds to draw you are then commiting yourself anyway.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: Dubai on January 30, 2006, 10:01:41 PM If im betting Jacks or Tens here I am doing so PRAYING TO INDUCE the bb to move in.
Title: Re: Rubbish play? Post by: ACE2M on February 01, 2006, 11:58:49 AM Intresting thoughts.
I personally think i should have led out on the flop, i am happy to take the pot and don't want to see a big card on the turn if i check and he checks behind me. I'm pretty sure i am in front when he moves and have to call but i would prefer not to risk so many chips on this hand. |